| Independence march merthyr 08:15 - Sep 8 with 32468 views | CwmafanJack |
Did anyone make the trip? Great speakers eddie butler and neville southall. Thousands in attendance with thousands more not being able to make it as trains where full coming from cardiff. Also busts the myth that theres no support for independence in the south. Well done all. Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:27 - Sep 9 with 1415 views | perchrockjack |
Why really really good friends.
Independence is abstract and why does it get personal.
And why are Welsh speakers discoursing in a language they clearly hate.
And why deny it. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:30 - Sep 9 with 1419 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:41 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
Wales does have a right to indepedence, if we want it. Seeing as the recent evidence suggests only around 8% back independence it seems the vast majority are happy being in the Union. It's called democracy, you know, what the majority want the majority get.....oh the irony eh!
Now I know it's a technicality but we are legally represented by the Union Jack because when it was designed Wales was considered to already be a part of England. Is that right or fair are valid questions but technically it's true.
Now the EU, I already said this elsewhere but the EU gives Wales a net 250 million every year whereas Westminster gives us a net 8 BILLION every year. Does anyone see the EU making that disparity up?
Why is it undemocratic for Wales to not be allowed to leave a Union that most of us want to be members of yet it's completely fine to be (allegedly) forced to remain in the EU when we voted to leave?
I would absolutely love every Englsih hater on here to have to do a DNA test so we could see just how "Welsh" people are. Everyone knows, or should by now, that there are very few (and possibly none) who are anywhere near pure blood in any country.
Wales and indeed the UK is a country of massively mixed heritage. British people, on average have only about 36% "British DNA" and whilst Welsh is probably the oldest of the UK ethnicities here in Wales we have the highest amount of DNA from Spain and Portugal. The typical DNA make up of a Welsh person is: British (36.15%), Irish (31.99%), Europe West (14.70%), Scandinavia (6.64%), Iberian Peninsula (3.24%), Eastern Europe (1.85%), Italy/Greece (1.50%), European Jewish (1%) so nobody is as Welsh as they think they are! The UK has for centuries been a cultural melting pot so radical nationalism is a wasted belief. For myself, I'm Welsh AND British. I don't hate the English, I haven't met them all so how could I and after all, I know for a fact that my great grandparents came here from Cornwall and somewhere from the deep dark past I have Germanic blood. |
It was at 28% a month after the last referendum. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 10:27 - Sep 9 with 1383 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:30 - Sep 9 by Ebo |
It was at 28% a month after the last referendum. |
8billion Turkish Lira more like. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 11:15 - Sep 9 with 1366 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:41 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
Wales does have a right to indepedence, if we want it. Seeing as the recent evidence suggests only around 8% back independence it seems the vast majority are happy being in the Union. It's called democracy, you know, what the majority want the majority get.....oh the irony eh!
Now I know it's a technicality but we are legally represented by the Union Jack because when it was designed Wales was considered to already be a part of England. Is that right or fair are valid questions but technically it's true.
Now the EU, I already said this elsewhere but the EU gives Wales a net 250 million every year whereas Westminster gives us a net 8 BILLION every year. Does anyone see the EU making that disparity up?
Why is it undemocratic for Wales to not be allowed to leave a Union that most of us want to be members of yet it's completely fine to be (allegedly) forced to remain in the EU when we voted to leave?
I would absolutely love every Englsih hater on here to have to do a DNA test so we could see just how "Welsh" people are. Everyone knows, or should by now, that there are very few (and possibly none) who are anywhere near pure blood in any country.
Wales and indeed the UK is a country of massively mixed heritage. British people, on average have only about 36% "British DNA" and whilst Welsh is probably the oldest of the UK ethnicities here in Wales we have the highest amount of DNA from Spain and Portugal. The typical DNA make up of a Welsh person is: British (36.15%), Irish (31.99%), Europe West (14.70%), Scandinavia (6.64%), Iberian Peninsula (3.24%), Eastern Europe (1.85%), Italy/Greece (1.50%), European Jewish (1%) so nobody is as Welsh as they think they are! The UK has for centuries been a cultural melting pot so radical nationalism is a wasted belief. For myself, I'm Welsh AND British. I don't hate the English, I haven't met them all so how could I and after all, I know for a fact that my great grandparents came here from Cornwall and somewhere from the deep dark past I have Germanic blood. |
You said:
Now the EU, I already said this elsewhere but the EU gives Wales a net 250 million every year whereas Westminster gives us a net 8 BILLION every year. Does anyone see the EU making that disparity up?
Incorrect. You made those figures up.
Wales gets £680 million per year in EU funding. The Westminster govt gives us less than £550m. Our taxes are spend in another country - is that fair? | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 12:10 - Sep 9 with 1332 views | LeonWasGod |
| Independence march merthyr on 11:15 - Sep 9 by Ebo |
You said:
Now the EU, I already said this elsewhere but the EU gives Wales a net 250 million every year whereas Westminster gives us a net 8 BILLION every year. Does anyone see the EU making that disparity up?
Incorrect. You made those figures up.
Wales gets £680 million per year in EU funding. The Westminster govt gives us less than £550m. Our taxes are spend in another country - is that fair? |
The NET EU figure is about right. ~£680m is just what comes this way, excluding our contribution to the membership fee. Westminster funding would be about right too.
The issue over EU funding though is that we'd see only the smallest portion if Westminster was divvying out the funds.
And as for national deficit, most countries run up public debt funded mainly through Govt bonds. I really don't see that being an argument with much weight in the Independence debate. It should be more about the right to govern oneself. |  | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 12:33 - Sep 9 with 1321 views | SgorioFruit |
| Independence march merthyr on 10:57 - Sep 8 by jacks777 |
Does Welsh independence mean Swansea will be playing in the league of Wales.
Or will we be able to cherry pick the bits associated with England we’d like to keep.
🇬🇧 |
United Kingdom was formed in 1922
Swansea City (town) FC was formed in 1912
So yeh, we don't need to 'cherry pick' the bits we want.
Welsh independence and Swansea remain in the EFL. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 12:37 - Sep 9 with 1317 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:30 - Sep 9 by Ebo |
It was at 28% a month after the last referendum. |
Professor Awan-Scully of Cardiff Uni, himself an indy supporter, examined all the polls and came to the conclusion the true figure was around 8%. Then, in a later blog he put the figure ar 22% strongly for with 43% strongly against,
The numbers fluctuate wildly but the Unionist support always come out well ahead of support for indy.
I'm not stupid enough to think that won't change. The way Westminster is behaving even I am wondering should we go indy, but we'll need better people in the Senedd if we do. People who are genuine public servants, not self serving careerists. Drakeford took over and immediately we learned we'd wasted millions on the M4 relief road planning, then we found out millions more is wasted in education through repetition and duplication. This same Welsh government has ignored or not published the results of public consultations and does as it wants. Is anyone happy at the thought of creating more AM's and all the associated extra costs, making us vastly over represented with the stat being close to twice as many AM's in Wales as MP's. It may even be more than twice as much so, 80-90 AM's, 60 MP's yet the EU has only 4 MEP's. Looking at those figures I start to think we should ditch the Senedd and Westminster! [Post edited 9 Sep 2019 12:45]
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| Independence march merthyr on 13:04 - Sep 9 with 1304 views | Ebo |
Or ditch Westminster and reform the Senedd. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 13:21 - Sep 9 with 1299 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 13:04 - Sep 9 by Ebo |
Or ditch Westminster and reform the Senedd. |
The thing about reforming a politcal entity is getting the politicians to agree to do it. They don't often want to accept being told what to do by us plebs! | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 14:00 - Sep 9 with 1274 views | Groo |
| Independence march merthyr on 12:33 - Sep 9 by SgorioFruit |
United Kingdom was formed in 1922
Swansea City (town) FC was formed in 1912
So yeh, we don't need to 'cherry pick' the bits we want.
Welsh independence and Swansea remain in the EFL. |
You can dream |  |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Independence march merthyr on 17:19 - Sep 9 with 1226 views | SgorioFruit |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:00 - Sep 9 by Groo |
You can dream |
the dream is gaining momentum | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 17:42 - Sep 9 with 1215 views | jacks777 |
| Independence march merthyr on 17:19 - Sep 9 by SgorioFruit |
the dream is gaining momentum |
Only in your head 😂 | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 18:00 - Sep 9 with 1207 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 17:42 - Sep 9 by jacks777 |
Only in your head 😂 |
Actually, although I argue against it, the bigger the mess in Westminster gets the more people may wonder if going indy would be a wise choice. I'm still against it but not as vehemently as I was. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 18:22 - Sep 9 with 1201 views | AguycalledJack |
I have read this thread with interest. A good debate being had. I do however have some questions (in no particular order) :
1. If wales gained independence where would the money come from?
2. If wales gained independence what would our currency be?
3. If wales gained independence would the people of wales then want to join the EU having already voted to leave? Would this mean another referendum / vote?
4. If the people of wales did want to join the EU how long would it be until we were up to EU standards?
5. When wales reached EU Standards would the EU accept us anyway given the leave vote?
6. Who would own the Severn crossings as you can bet the charges would be reimplemented?
7. Would there be any effect on trade with England?
8. Would there be a hard boarder?
Thanks in advance. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:24 - Sep 9 with 1179 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 18:22 - Sep 9 by AguycalledJack |
I have read this thread with interest. A good debate being had. I do however have some questions (in no particular order) :
1. If wales gained independence where would the money come from?
2. If wales gained independence what would our currency be?
3. If wales gained independence would the people of wales then want to join the EU having already voted to leave? Would this mean another referendum / vote?
4. If the people of wales did want to join the EU how long would it be until we were up to EU standards?
5. When wales reached EU Standards would the EU accept us anyway given the leave vote?
6. Who would own the Severn crossings as you can bet the charges would be reimplemented?
7. Would there be any effect on trade with England?
8. Would there be a hard boarder?
Thanks in advance. |
1 who knows
2 who knows but if we joined the EU it'd be the euro
3 I doubt the Senedd would give us a choice
4 nobody knows. We'd have to meet the Copenhagen criteria and it might take years
5 only the EU knows
6 Wales would probably have to buy the English share of the bridges if we wanted to reimpose levies, or the English might agree to joint ownership...who knows
7 Imagine a hard border with England, there could well be many problems, sepcially if England and the EU were still arguing over brexit. How would we export if we couldn't go through or over England?
8 I had a hard boarder once, ex boxer he was. In other words, who knows.
All these questions have been asked before but no one can answer them, either because they can't or they don't want to. I certainly don't know apart from 2 or 4 where we all know if we did join the EU it would mean we had reached the Copenhagen criteria and it would be the euro. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 19:38 - Sep 9 with 1173 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 13:22 - Sep 8 by Ebo |
If they had to leave so be it. Far more important things than football. I’d prefer education, healthcare, jobs and prosperity over a football club which at the end of the day just everyone’s hobby. |
Im assuming that once Brexit happens, all the English,Welsh,Scottish and Irish clubs will have to pull out of the UEFA and champions league?????????????? | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:40 - Sep 9 with 1171 views | Groo |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:38 - Sep 9 by blaenaugwentjack |
Im assuming that once Brexit happens, all the English,Welsh,Scottish and Irish clubs will have to pull out of the UEFA and champions league?????????????? |
Why?
Would still be in Europe and part of UEFA. | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Independence march merthyr on 19:47 - Sep 9 with 1170 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 18:22 - Sep 9 by AguycalledJack |
I have read this thread with interest. A good debate being had. I do however have some questions (in no particular order) :
1. If wales gained independence where would the money come from?
2. If wales gained independence what would our currency be?
3. If wales gained independence would the people of wales then want to join the EU having already voted to leave? Would this mean another referendum / vote?
4. If the people of wales did want to join the EU how long would it be until we were up to EU standards?
5. When wales reached EU Standards would the EU accept us anyway given the leave vote?
6. Who would own the Severn crossings as you can bet the charges would be reimplemented?
7. Would there be any effect on trade with England?
8. Would there be a hard boarder?
Thanks in advance. |
What if we dont go Indy thats the real question ?
Will we be Wales-shire ?
Will we have perpetual Tory rule from London ?
Will we have more illegal wars ?
Will we have to buy nuclear weapons that we will never use ?
Will we have to bail out the London bankers again ?
Will we be Brexidiot island for ever ?
Will we be Team GB forever ?
Will we still have to travel through England to go between north and south wales ?
Will we still have to prioritise Bristol Airport over Cardiff Airport ?
Thanks in advance. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 19:54 - Sep 9 with 1163 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:40 - Sep 9 by Groo |
Why?
Would still be in Europe and part of UEFA. |
And .... so indy wales would still be part of the Great Britain landmass and be part of uefa. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 19:59 - Sep 9 with 1156 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:16 - Sep 8 by Ebo |
You are a total f ucking idiot. Every country has the right to self determination. You are just happy to be downtrodden by Westminster and blame it all on the Assembly/EU. That is the big problem in Wales - convincing people just that. |
Spot on | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:11 - Sep 9 with 1150 views | AguycalledJack |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:47 - Sep 9 by Kilkennyjack |
What if we dont go Indy thats the real question ?
Will we be Wales-shire ?
Will we have perpetual Tory rule from London ?
Will we have more illegal wars ?
Will we have to buy nuclear weapons that we will never use ?
Will we have to bail out the London bankers again ?
Will we be Brexidiot island for ever ?
Will we be Team GB forever ?
Will we still have to travel through England to go between north and south wales ?
Will we still have to prioritise Bristol Airport over Cardiff Airport ?
Thanks in advance. |
All good points. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:14 - Sep 9 with 1148 views | blaenaugwentjack |
Great march to the stadium on Friday evening with the welsh football supporters for welsh independence, and then a great march and superb speech by Mr Eddie Butler. Some very distasteful comments on this thread and some with very little or no facts. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:12 - Sep 9 with 1122 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 07:11 - Sep 9 by jacks777 |
The Normans were not French. “Norman” means men from the north.
They were Vikings who had settled in that part of France.
They were Germanic just like the Anglo-Saxons. |
Yes, thanks for the history lesson but the vast majority on here already know that. They were settled in Normandy and were french speaking, although knowing your views on immigration I should have expected this from you. Either way, Norman’s were a french occupying nobility, not Saxon (or English if you prefer). |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:16 - Sep 9 with 1109 views | Brynmill_Jack |
Says the man possibly born in England. (Depending on what year obviously) | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:51 - Sep 9 with 1087 views | Wingstandwood |
Most sensible people with non-rocket scientist common sense and awareness now see devolution as a complete and utter load of Cardiff centric sh1te come regionally biased obscenity.... I would think many would now naturally assume that total independence would be far, far worse.
Approx 105,000 Swansea/SW Wales people signed a SWEP petition to save a local hospitals children's service and OUR Swansea delegation, MY Swansea delegation, YOUR Swansea delegation was blatantly made (punishment? spite? petty, mindedness?) to stand outside the WAG-Cardiff in the freezing cold.
A leading South Wales cancer clinician resigned in protest because of lack of funding from Welsh Assembly politicians that were far more concerned about white-elephant vanity projects in Cardiff Bay.
And only a year or two after that (from horses mouth stuff) another cancer specialist did not want any gate-crashing flash photography seeking WAG politician impostors in attendance to steal the praise and well deserved efforts from others at an opening event. So much for devolved government being held in any high esteem. In fact the only effective opposition came from the leading cancer clinician, SWEP Sue Bailey, Dai Lloyd and local campaigners. Stuff Welsh independence up your f#cking arse! |  |
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