| Observations from last night 12:27 - Oct 29 with 3035 views | bosh67 |
Much as it pains me to say it I thought Brentford deserved to win. They were just technically better and more at it than we were.
I can't understand how teams come to us on TV and suddenly play like Barcelona. Someone on here said that it may be because teams have sussed us out at home. There may be something to that. I think it also comes down to teams knowing how leaky our defence is and simply coming to have a go at it. Away from home home teams expect to come at us but perhaps don't think as much about a counter attack risk and that's where we seem to be good on our travels.
Brentford play a very similar brand of football to us but have had quite a bit longer to hone that than us. Some of their link up play in midfield was telepathic last night. They knew exactly where they were and how to make angles to get past us.
Their goalkeeper was very impressive. As soon as he had the ball he got it out and onto the counter attack at lightning speed. All his deliveries where possible were thrown. Kelly was excellent last night but we would benefit from him and Lumley learning how to get play going that quickly and our midfield would benefit from learning to make those very quick run offs from a keeper regaining possession.
Ollie Watkins is some player. He's currently valued at £10m and you can sort fo see why. He is a kind of lovechild of Wells and Hugill. He has Well's pace and movement and Hugill's physicality. Even Leistner had real trouble grappling with him last night, and even though he is middleweight to Leistner's heavyweight Leistner found himself in a real fight at times. Saïd Benrahma also is a very clever player and those two made all sorts of angles that pulled us in narrow and left us exposed.
Their midfield though for me won it last night. Their transitions were so quick and so accurate that we struggled to cope, especially first half when we were so sluggish. That first half cost us dearly because it gave Brentford confidence to come at us. First 10-15 minutes we at too deep and let them dominate us.
The penalty was a huge blow and although it didn't seem to dent our ability to finally go forward it meant we were always trying to save the game and Brentford's game management in that last 20 minutes was pretty astute. Only Eze looked like breaching their backline and he couldn't find a corner.
We have to learn from what Brentford did to us and that had they not got the penalty, committed not by Scowen but by an ill timed challenge by a Poltergeist we may have actually got something out of it. But the learning curve is that Brentford played how we want to play and although it is depressing to say it, we have to watch and learn from that performance against us. In many ways it was better for me than the WBA game as we didn't turn up at all in that game and Brentford were just better and more clever than WBA against us.
People who say they have spent £30m, that's not exactly true. They have bought players in at £1.5m to £3m and sold them on for £10m+. Just a clever strategy and again one we should now adopt as we have to be seen to not be desperate to sell but also sell at the right price and not just move players on because of salaries. That is very much a work in progress.
We need to look in the next window for perhaps two young up and coming centre backs with hunger and pace. We always talk about the next Stan Bowles but we also need to find the next Paul Parker and the next Danny Shittu. They are out there in the lower divisions and in other leagues. Just look at Smyth and Manning as examples. Plus we have some academy talent and Masterson to bring on. We need to look at other club's academies and bring in players from there that we may be able to get on loan with a view to buy. Our defence needs to eventually be younger, brighter, faster, hungrier as we move forward. With this style of play we need to create a long lasting tight unit that can recover through movement and pace and get the ball out to the midfield and forwards quicker and counter quicker from the keeper regaining possession.
We also need to look at the way our midfield is set up. I agree that Manning has done excellently and has matured greatly. He has been good at left back but inclined to get too narrow. However he is much bigger, stronger and aggressive than he was. To me he is the midfield playmaking anchor eventually. He sees a through pass, he can mix it up physically, he has no fear. He can be a mixture of Derry and Faurlin in the middle given a chance and he will give the likes of Wells, Eze, BOS, Chair and Hugill so much more time and opportunity. Warbs has to consider that. Plus Ball and Amos are again young and can get about. Not to have a go at Scowen or Cameron. It's just that eventually we need to evolve with that young heartbeat here. That and more pace about the pitch. Brentford were a yard faster last night and that's because their age range is more evenly spread throughout defence, midfield and attack.
It was a bad night to lose Hugill. I think his physicality would have helped greatly make more space for others but they have to look to give Mlakar more academy game time because he is big and given the right coaching could be something here.
Finally, I was saddened to hear the thread that a 14 year old who's stepdad was on here was throttled by some lunatic at the end of the game when said lunatic called Warburton a disgrace. We don't need such morons supporting this club and I hope the kid has recovered.
This team has been assembled on youth, low cost experience and a very small budget. We can go forward in the same way as Brentford, Bournemouth and particularly Burnley and make this club both sustainable and profitable. We need to be the London Ajax, finding young players and a few older heads wherever they may be and creating a conveyor belt of talent.
Warburton is a very clever man. We got done last night but I think he may learn more from that game than any other. We just need to give him plenty of time with his team on the pitch and off it. We could have gone second as every pundit declared fatally last night, which despite the defeat is amazing considering the limitation we work under.
Get behind this lot. There is no lack of effort or confidence. It is a new team, learning, succeeding and getting punished but I think every aspect of this season and learning how to shut the back door a bit and get the system right home and away will make us a great team to follow for years to come. [Post edited 29 Oct 2019 12:35]
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| Observations from last night on 13:59 - Oct 29 with 2772 views | nix |
Excellent points made Bosh.
Weirdly some of the angry fringe seems to get worse when we’re doing well than last season when we were struggling. |  | | |
| Observations from last night on 14:09 - Oct 29 with 2745 views | hopphoops |
| Observations from last night on 13:59 - Oct 29 by nix |
Excellent points made Bosh.
Weirdly some of the angry fringe seems to get worse when we’re doing well than last season when we were struggling. |
It's a game of fine margins, they just edged it for me but over the 90 we didn't get some breaks and it could easily have gone the other way. We move on. |  |
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| Observations from last night on 14:12 - Oct 29 with 2737 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Observations from last night on 13:59 - Oct 29 by nix |
Excellent points made Bosh.
Weirdly some of the angry fringe seems to get worse when we’re doing well than last season when we were struggling. |
yeah said before that as enjoyable as those 30 mins v Luton were, it has spoiled some fans who think it will be like that for 90 mins every game. Which would be lovely, but, er, not easy. |  |
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| Observations from last night on 14:47 - Oct 29 with 2631 views | nix |
| Observations from last night on 14:12 - Oct 29 by Antti_Heinola |
yeah said before that as enjoyable as those 30 mins v Luton were, it has spoiled some fans who think it will be like that for 90 mins every game. Which would be lovely, but, er, not easy. |
Quite. And we didn’t even manage it for the full 90 minutes in that game. Even Premier players have poor spells, look at Rashford and Pogba this season and even De Gea is not the same as two years ago. It is hard when you’re a smaller club as your plan B players tend not be as good. I think when we start to sell for bigger transfer fees, plus more youth team players come through it’ll pay off. | | | |
| Observations from last night on 14:54 - Oct 29 with 2609 views | Stanisgod |
We need to hijack Bees scouting network!! |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Observations from last night on 15:33 - Oct 29 with 2508 views | Mick_S |
| Observations from last night on 14:54 - Oct 29 by Stanisgod |
We need to hijack Bees scouting network!! |
Don't forget to nick the" Aye aye yippie yippie aye" song. It's the Spartak Haka.  |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Observations from last night on 16:07 - Oct 29 with 2415 views | Mick_S |
| Observations from last night on 13:59 - Oct 29 by nix |
Excellent points made Bosh.
Weirdly some of the angry fringe seems to get worse when we’re doing well than last season when we were struggling. |
Bloke next to me left on 60 minutes last night. Why bother going in the first place? | |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Observations from last night on 16:15 - Oct 29 with 2379 views | PinnerPaul |
Just as baffling as leaving on 85' when only 1 goal in it.
Heard some boos at final whistle in ER as well - pathetic |  | | |
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| Observations from last night on 16:24 - Oct 29 with 2337 views | W7Ranger |
Or 2-0 down at 90. |  | | |
| Observations from last night on 16:52 - Oct 29 with 2271 views | LeedsR |
Some great points Bosh. Really intrigued by the idea of Manning playing the DM/Libero role. After all, he is or was primarily a midfielder. It was testament to how well the Brentford midfield nullified ours that it was once again left to Leistner having to take the initiative and try to get play going.
We know, and I’m sure Leistner knows that he is no Beckenbauer, but as Brentford had snuffed out our midfield, all that was on was for Leistner to play those long hoof and hope balls rather than work the ball through. I love Leistner, but we know and he knows his limitations and we know we are in trouble when Toni has to be the playmaker!
Maybe time for Wallace to come in at LB and move Manning to DM alongside Ball or Smith? |  | | |
| Observations from last night on 11:57 - Oct 30 with 1878 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Observations from last night on 16:52 - Oct 29 by LeedsR |
Some great points Bosh. Really intrigued by the idea of Manning playing the DM/Libero role. After all, he is or was primarily a midfielder. It was testament to how well the Brentford midfield nullified ours that it was once again left to Leistner having to take the initiative and try to get play going.
We know, and I’m sure Leistner knows that he is no Beckenbauer, but as Brentford had snuffed out our midfield, all that was on was for Leistner to play those long hoof and hope balls rather than work the ball through. I love Leistner, but we know and he knows his limitations and we know we are in trouble when Toni has to be the playmaker!
Maybe time for Wallace to come in at LB and move Manning to DM alongside Ball or Smith? |
Manning came from Ireland as a left-winger/striker, LeedsR.
I'm not saying that he couldn't do a job in defensive mid, in fact I think he could with training and games, just that he has no experience there. |  |
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| Observations from last night on 12:29 - Oct 30 with 1826 views | beanofire1 |
I honestly thought we missed Barbet.
Our distribution from the back missed his presence and range.
I also think Ball is more mobile than Cameron. |  |
| 'I knw I ain't doing much........but doing nothing means a lot to me.' |
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| Observations from last night on 13:12 - Oct 30 with 1766 views | stevec |
| Observations from last night on 12:29 - Oct 30 by beanofire1 |
I honestly thought we missed Barbet.
Our distribution from the back missed his presence and range.
I also think Ball is more mobile than Cameron. |
Without Barbet, passing out from the back looks a non starter.
Slightly concerned if he's out for a while as struggling to see how our so far excellent passing game can continue. Might need to bring Wallace in at LB in a conventional back four, one up front, and play five across the middle with Hall in front of Leinster and Cameron and try to get Eze and Chair pushing forward from either side of Hall. Could still keep Manning ahead of the LB and try educate BOS to keep up with the game or stick Kane is his position.
Incidentally, know I upset a few with comments on BOS. 9 starts, 5 losses. 7 non starts, 1 loss (WBA). Something's not happening with him.
He's got the attributes to be a decent player, but seems he's been here for a fair bit of time now and we don't see much improvement. It's one thing having pace when you haven't got the ball but not much help if he can't use it when he does have the ball. Stick him in a room watching back to back Andy Impey videos and hope to fck he finally gets the message. |  | | |
| Observations from last night on 14:30 - Oct 30 with 1722 views | The_Seer |
Warburton needs to pick Wallace and move Manning further forward. Manning is an attacking player not a defender. Wallace is fit, there is no excuse. | | | |
| Observations from last night on 18:47 - Oct 30 with 1633 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Observations from last night on 13:12 - Oct 30 by stevec |
Without Barbet, passing out from the back looks a non starter.
Slightly concerned if he's out for a while as struggling to see how our so far excellent passing game can continue. Might need to bring Wallace in at LB in a conventional back four, one up front, and play five across the middle with Hall in front of Leinster and Cameron and try to get Eze and Chair pushing forward from either side of Hall. Could still keep Manning ahead of the LB and try educate BOS to keep up with the game or stick Kane is his position.
Incidentally, know I upset a few with comments on BOS. 9 starts, 5 losses. 7 non starts, 1 loss (WBA). Something's not happening with him.
He's got the attributes to be a decent player, but seems he's been here for a fair bit of time now and we don't see much improvement. It's one thing having pace when you haven't got the ball but not much help if he can't use it when he does have the ball. Stick him in a room watching back to back Andy Impey videos and hope to fck he finally gets the message. |
"Incidentally, know I upset a few with comments on BOS. 9 starts, 5 losses. 7 non starts, 1 loss (WBA). Something's not happening with him.
He's got the attributes to be a decent player, but seems he's been here for a fair bit of time now and we don't see much improvement. It's one thing having pace when you haven't got the ball but not much help if he can't use it when he does have the ball. Stick him in a room watching back to back Andy Impey videos and hope to fck he finally gets the message."
Well, those stats can't be ignored. I don't think it's all down to BOS, maybe a lot of it is when our wide players stick to the line it's because we don't have attacking wing-backs which has been our best formation to date.
I also mentioned Impey during the match fred. I think he could learn from Impey how to get the ball forward on the first or second touch rather than taking those touches only to find yourself squared up with your oppo defender or (frequently) doubled up. | |
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| Observations from last night on 20:01 - Oct 30 with 1575 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Observations from last night on 13:12 - Oct 30 by stevec |
Without Barbet, passing out from the back looks a non starter.
Slightly concerned if he's out for a while as struggling to see how our so far excellent passing game can continue. Might need to bring Wallace in at LB in a conventional back four, one up front, and play five across the middle with Hall in front of Leinster and Cameron and try to get Eze and Chair pushing forward from either side of Hall. Could still keep Manning ahead of the LB and try educate BOS to keep up with the game or stick Kane is his position.
Incidentally, know I upset a few with comments on BOS. 9 starts, 5 losses. 7 non starts, 1 loss (WBA). Something's not happening with him.
He's got the attributes to be a decent player, but seems he's been here for a fair bit of time now and we don't see much improvement. It's one thing having pace when you haven't got the ball but not much help if he can't use it when he does have the ball. Stick him in a room watching back to back Andy Impey videos and hope to fck he finally gets the message. |
it's a bit worrying, to say the least, if Barbet's absence means the passing out from the back game immediately crumbles. Obviously, that's not a good plan if it depends on one (defensively inconsistent) defender.
To make another rather obvious point, maybe BOS just isn't as good as Andy Impey (and perhaps will never be), regardless of how many videos he watches of our neckless former winger wonder. I'd say he has improved, but he's still learning, like (as keeps getting pointed out) a lot of this team. As I recall, though, it was his contribution that set up Hugill's goal at Stoke, and his tying two defenders in knots that led to Manning's equaliser at Hull. |  |
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| Observations from last night on 20:05 - Oct 30 with 1569 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Fair points. However, Impey improved enormously with coaching and confidence. BOS could too. | |
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| Observations from last night on 21:09 - Oct 30 with 1532 views | distortR |
I would be intrigued to see Chair coming deep to receive the ball from the keeper. He has the vision, the skill and the control. | | | |
| Observations from last night on 22:37 - Oct 30 with 1493 views | LeedsR |
| Observations from last night on 11:57 - Oct 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
Manning came from Ireland as a left-winger/striker, LeedsR.
I'm not saying that he couldn't do a job in defensive mid, in fact I think he could with training and games, just that he has no experience there. |
I stand corrected. I guess he’s a victim of his versatility and talent. He could clearly do well in several positions. Definitely agree that he’d need training and games to get up to speed as a DM. But then we’d lose his crossing skills.... aargh, I’m talking myself into circles!!! | | | |
| Observations from last night on 09:51 - Oct 31 with 1403 views | francisbowles |
| Observations from last night on 11:57 - Oct 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
Manning came from Ireland as a left-winger/striker, LeedsR.
I'm not saying that he couldn't do a job in defensive mid, in fact I think he could with training and games, just that he has no experience there. |
He does have a bit of experience there. I was at Wolves when he was surprisingly picked for his debut and he played in a kind of Ale Faurlin position and was very good. Great forward passing. Not sure how many games he got there before it was changed. Not many though.
He has a great left foot and has attributes in many positions. He has developed a lot, probably helped by that loan last season, and I believe he is stronger and better in the air now and would be a really good defensive midfield choice if Wallace can be as good or better at left back for us. | | | |
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