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Big player sale? 13:23 - Jul 16 with 1188 viewsSaintsforeverj

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11700/12029069/

Are we being prepared for selling our best players or is this just a passing comment, I wonder.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 13:41]

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Big player sale? on 13:38 - Jul 16 with 1165 viewsthissceptredsaint

I read this in the Echo this morning. It is worrying. Basically he is saying his hands are tied
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Big player sale? on 13:42 - Jul 16 with 1159 viewsSaintsforeverj

Big player sale? on 13:38 - Jul 16 by thissceptredsaint

I read this in the Echo this morning. It is worrying. Basically he is saying his hands are tied


It is worrying because for the first time in years, I am feeling optimistic and looking forward to some success next year. But sell Bertrand, Ings and a few others, well here we go again! Back to rebuilding again.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 13:43]

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Big player sale? on 13:43 - Jul 16 with 1157 viewsButty101

Thats quite a mixted message for Bertrand. You are our best defender but you are old... Hes 30 ffs. Not that old and has his mojo back. If you can find money to keep Shane Long then Bertand should be a no brainer.
Plus stop talking the club down, saying we are a development club. I would like to see us win something in my lifetime rather than the mantle of feeder club.

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Big player sale? on 13:43 - Jul 16 with 1152 viewsSaintNick

Big player sale? on 13:38 - Jul 16 by thissceptredsaint

I read this in the Echo this morning. It is worrying. Basically he is saying his hands are tied


Hasenhuttl is Austrian and they like the Germans are very matter of fact, there is also a little lost in interpretation.

All he has said is that when players outperform other clubs get interested and if they come in we cannot compete with them.

The departures of Van Dijk and Sadio Mane is an example, we could not match Liverpool's contract offer nor their potential for winning trophies europe etc and dare I mention, for the player that means bigger money still in bonus's

That doesn't mean Ralph's hands are tied, he can try to keep players, but he isn't doing so from a position of strength

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Big player sale? on 13:48 - Jul 16 with 1132 viewsSaintsforeverj

Big player sale? on 13:43 - Jul 16 by SaintNick

Hasenhuttl is Austrian and they like the Germans are very matter of fact, there is also a little lost in interpretation.

All he has said is that when players outperform other clubs get interested and if they come in we cannot compete with them.

The departures of Van Dijk and Sadio Mane is an example, we could not match Liverpool's contract offer nor their potential for winning trophies europe etc and dare I mention, for the player that means bigger money still in bonus's

That doesn't mean Ralph's hands are tied, he can try to keep players, but he isn't doing so from a position of strength


There are two interpretations imo, otherwise why say it?

- Smaller clubs inevitably lose world class players to the top teams and Ralph is flippantly / honestly saying he worries about this, as we are performing so well. Yeah, I can imagine it is a worry.
Or
- Ralph knows that Saints are about to sell a few of our best players and / or there is interest and he is preparing the fan base.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 13:52]

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Big player sale? on 13:54 - Jul 16 with 1114 viewsbattler

So whats the score with Bertrand's contract compared to Longs then ? I suppose the slight age difference and Bertie's higher wage demands are the reasons why a new contract hasn't been sorted yet.
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Big player sale? on 13:56 - Jul 16 with 1107 viewsSaintNick

Big player sale? on 13:48 - Jul 16 by Saintsforeverj

There are two interpretations imo, otherwise why say it?

- Smaller clubs inevitably lose world class players to the top teams and Ralph is flippantly / honestly saying he worries about this, as we are performing so well. Yeah, I can imagine it is a worry.
Or
- Ralph knows that Saints are about to sell a few of our best players and / or there is interest and he is preparing the fan base.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 13:52]


He has to answer questions and he has done so honestly, whatever one you think it is is not going to change anything we can only wait and see.

Perhaps the message is actually both of your points are right, the fact is smaller teams do lose players to the big clubs, yes he could be preparing the fans for the shock.

But lastly this is the reality of football now, we have to accept that and move forward, he seems ok with that, perhaps it is time for some to realise it and stop harking on about our old board selling players 6 years ago and look to the future.

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Big player sale? on 13:56 - Jul 16 with 1106 viewsSaintsforeverj

Big player sale? on 13:54 - Jul 16 by battler

So whats the score with Bertrand's contract compared to Longs then ? I suppose the slight age difference and Bertie's higher wage demands are the reasons why a new contract hasn't been sorted yet.


The cynic in me, says that Bertrand is probably wondering if he can double his wages and player for a bigger club, so he hasn't signed yet. Long knows nobody else wanted him, so was happy to sign.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 13:57]

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Big player sale? on 14:03 - Jul 16 with 1093 viewsSaintNick

Big player sale? on 13:43 - Jul 16 by Butty101

Thats quite a mixted message for Bertrand. You are our best defender but you are old... Hes 30 ffs. Not that old and has his mojo back. If you can find money to keep Shane Long then Bertand should be a no brainer.
Plus stop talking the club down, saying we are a development club. I would like to see us win something in my lifetime rather than the mantle of feeder club.


Bertrand is 31 in a little over two weeks time, he has a year left on his contract, the player will be looking at his options this summer for what will be his last big move as he enters perhaps the last two seasons of being a first choice for a premier league club.

So we have to weigh things up and so does he , is he willing to sign a new deal, if we get a big bid for him is it worth taking, is Jake Vokins ready to step up to the plate now.

To compare him to Long is unfair, Shane Long has been a good servant to the club and always been 100% committed, Bertrand went off the boil after being omitted from the World Cup squad in 2018, he also was looking for a big move, no one came in for him and a personal view is that he has found it hard to motivate himself these past two years.

Like it or not we are what we are and we have to wheel and deal it is not just about transfer fees but about wages,

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Big player sale? on 14:05 - Jul 16 with 1087 viewsSaintsforeverj

Big player sale? on 13:56 - Jul 16 by SaintNick

He has to answer questions and he has done so honestly, whatever one you think it is is not going to change anything we can only wait and see.

Perhaps the message is actually both of your points are right, the fact is smaller teams do lose players to the big clubs, yes he could be preparing the fans for the shock.

But lastly this is the reality of football now, we have to accept that and move forward, he seems ok with that, perhaps it is time for some to realise it and stop harking on about our old board selling players 6 years ago and look to the future.


I understand that top players will inevitably move to the top clubs, if they want to. This is no secret and is a harsh reality. But I am looking forward to what I feel will be an excellent season next season. I don't mind Hojbjerg going or even Bertrand if we replace well.

I suppose in particular, losing Ings would be a massive blow to our hopes imo. Players like that are very difficult to replace. But could the club not do a bit more to convince these players to stay a little longer, just so that we can experience a bit of success. Leicester kept hold of Vardy go example. Wolves keep their top players.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 14:07]

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Big player sale? on 14:19 - Jul 16 with 1064 viewsButty101

Big player sale? on 14:03 - Jul 16 by SaintNick

Bertrand is 31 in a little over two weeks time, he has a year left on his contract, the player will be looking at his options this summer for what will be his last big move as he enters perhaps the last two seasons of being a first choice for a premier league club.

So we have to weigh things up and so does he , is he willing to sign a new deal, if we get a big bid for him is it worth taking, is Jake Vokins ready to step up to the plate now.

To compare him to Long is unfair, Shane Long has been a good servant to the club and always been 100% committed, Bertrand went off the boil after being omitted from the World Cup squad in 2018, he also was looking for a big move, no one came in for him and a personal view is that he has found it hard to motivate himself these past two years.

Like it or not we are what we are and we have to wheel and deal it is not just about transfer fees but about wages,


Bertrand is fit and can go on for several years yet. You did an article yesterday saying how we need experience rather than more youth at centreback. Well he provides that quality at leftback lets keep him.

As for Shane Long. Its easy to draw comparissions between long and one of your favs
Yoshida. They were both 100% committed and good servants because the bigger clubs didnt want them. One had the occasional lapse in defense and the other couldnt hit a barn door. If Liverpool had ever wanted Long he would have been gone in a shot.

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Big player sale? on 14:22 - Jul 16 with 1060 viewsTimSaint

Big player sale? on 13:54 - Jul 16 by battler

So whats the score with Bertrand's contract compared to Longs then ? I suppose the slight age difference and Bertie's higher wage demands are the reasons why a new contract hasn't been sorted yet.


Long's contract was virtually up (end of June 20), but we offered / he accepted a 2 year deal, which was probably about right for both parties.

Bertrand has 1 year left. I expect his age will put off the big clubs, so he is probably best off signing an extension with Saints. I don't think he would want the upheaval of moving his youngish family up north or something, so his commute from Surrey will be fine.

If he does want to go, or is asking for stupid money, then why not get Ryan Sessegnon included in the KWP and PEH deal ? He is young, experienced and versatile - but rarely gets a game.

We should also look to extend Ings' contract this summer, as well as Stuart Armstrong's - as he looks like he is actually becoming the player we thought we had signed a couple of years back.

TimSaint

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Big player sale? on 14:22 - Jul 16 with 1057 viewsthissceptredsaint

Big player sale? on 13:43 - Jul 16 by SaintNick

Hasenhuttl is Austrian and they like the Germans are very matter of fact, there is also a little lost in interpretation.

All he has said is that when players outperform other clubs get interested and if they come in we cannot compete with them.

The departures of Van Dijk and Sadio Mane is an example, we could not match Liverpool's contract offer nor their potential for winning trophies europe etc and dare I mention, for the player that means bigger money still in bonus's

That doesn't mean Ralph's hands are tied, he can try to keep players, but he isn't doing so from a position of strength


It read to me that he was resigned to losing high performing players, which implies that the board have told him that that's the long term future for the club, they wont fight to keep them. Clubs with such lack of ambition are always at risk of going down as we are gambling on players keeping us just around where we are and one or two mistakes can mean relegation looms.
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Big player sale? on 14:30 - Jul 16 with 1045 viewsRon11

Big player sale? on 14:22 - Jul 16 by thissceptredsaint

It read to me that he was resigned to losing high performing players, which implies that the board have told him that that's the long term future for the club, they wont fight to keep them. Clubs with such lack of ambition are always at risk of going down as we are gambling on players keeping us just around where we are and one or two mistakes can mean relegation looms.


I don't think Hassenhutl would have signed a new extended deal if he was told he was going to lose some of his best players if they wanted to leave.
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Big player sale? on 14:33 - Jul 16 with 1040 viewsSaintNick

Big player sale? on 14:19 - Jul 16 by Butty101

Bertrand is fit and can go on for several years yet. You did an article yesterday saying how we need experience rather than more youth at centreback. Well he provides that quality at leftback lets keep him.

As for Shane Long. Its easy to draw comparissions between long and one of your favs
Yoshida. They were both 100% committed and good servants because the bigger clubs didnt want them. One had the occasional lapse in defense and the other couldnt hit a barn door. If Liverpool had ever wanted Long he would have been gone in a shot.


I actually agree with you about Bertrand, I was just saying what the things were the club had to consider.

The 100% committed and loyal servants is about the only comparisons you could draw between them.

Yoshida was a competent back up player and for much of the time was not a first choice.

Long was a player who although not a great finisher still got his fair share of goals including some important ones, but was more important to the team for his work rate and ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play.

Yes if Liverpool had come in he would have been off like a shot, but then again so would have any other member of our squad so not a good analogy

Long however did have clubs after him at various times, I thought someone might have tempted Yoshida away in the period 2013-16 when he was very much a back up player and started only 25 games in those 3 seasons, i thought he would be a good cheap signing for a newly promoted Premier League club looking for a player with a bit of nous in the top flight, but nothing.

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Big player sale? on 15:45 - Jul 16 with 978 viewscocklebreath

Big player sale? on 14:03 - Jul 16 by SaintNick

Bertrand is 31 in a little over two weeks time, he has a year left on his contract, the player will be looking at his options this summer for what will be his last big move as he enters perhaps the last two seasons of being a first choice for a premier league club.

So we have to weigh things up and so does he , is he willing to sign a new deal, if we get a big bid for him is it worth taking, is Jake Vokins ready to step up to the plate now.

To compare him to Long is unfair, Shane Long has been a good servant to the club and always been 100% committed, Bertrand went off the boil after being omitted from the World Cup squad in 2018, he also was looking for a big move, no one came in for him and a personal view is that he has found it hard to motivate himself these past two years.

Like it or not we are what we are and we have to wheel and deal it is not just about transfer fees but about wages,


I think that’s a bit harsh on Bertrand

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Big player sale? on 16:12 - Jul 16 with 943 viewsdirk_doone

Big player sale? on 15:45 - Jul 16 by cocklebreath

I think that’s a bit harsh on Bertrand


Bertrand was our man of the match in our last game. With our budget it would be almost impossible for us to find a replacement anywhere near as good. If we want to build on our current success, we need to keep him. He is our most experienced and most reliable defender.

Getting one of your first team regulars off the wage bill because he is 30 is a false economy as we found out with Fonte. You end up spending £20 million on replacements like Hoedt, who are on even higher wages and aren't good enough for the first team. It makes much more sense to give your first team regulars generous contract extensions as you not only have a stronger team that way, but also save money. It's also good for team spirit and the reputation of the club.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 17:37]

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Big player sale? on 17:34 - Jul 16 with 873 viewskingslandstand1

Big player sale? on 16:12 - Jul 16 by dirk_doone

Bertrand was our man of the match in our last game. With our budget it would be almost impossible for us to find a replacement anywhere near as good. If we want to build on our current success, we need to keep him. He is our most experienced and most reliable defender.

Getting one of your first team regulars off the wage bill because he is 30 is a false economy as we found out with Fonte. You end up spending £20 million on replacements like Hoedt, who are on even higher wages and aren't good enough for the first team. It makes much more sense to give your first team regulars generous contract extensions as you not only have a stronger team that way, but also save money. It's also good for team spirit and the reputation of the club.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2020 17:37]


I'm with that, and I'm afraid Nick asking the question as to whether Vokins is up to the challenge, he may well be but we don't really know as he's only had a handful of appearances. We thought Valery would be the ideal replacement for Cedric (youth over experience) but looked what happened there and we are relying on an inexperienced loanee (albeit one I hope we sign permanently

Until we get our CB situation sorted out we must keep Bertrand even if it takes a big contract
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