| 5 Subs 08:37 - Dec 17 with 1062 views | JaySaint |
I see this will voted on again.....typical
I also notice that the arch cheerleader for this did not make a sub last night... |  |
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| 5 Subs on 09:32 - Dec 17 with 1015 views | SaintNick |
I think it should stay at 3 , although I could agree to a 4th for a head injury as someone is proposing |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| 5 Subs on 09:55 - Dec 17 with 997 views | dwayne_dibley |
where will it end? Like American football where they can change the whole team at will [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 14:05]
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| 5 Subs on 10:17 - Dec 17 with 983 views | Sadoldgit |
| 5 Subs on 09:32 - Dec 17 by SaintNick |
I think it should stay at 3 , although I could agree to a 4th for a head injury as someone is proposing |
Where do you draw the line. If it is allowed for a head injury, why not a broken leg? Actually I don’t have a problem with serious injuries, but 3 is enough for usual circumstances. |  | | |
| 5 Subs on 14:06 - Dec 17 with 921 views | dwayne_dibley |
| 5 Subs on 10:17 - Dec 17 by Sadoldgit |
Where do you draw the line. If it is allowed for a head injury, why not a broken leg? Actually I don’t have a problem with serious injuries, but 3 is enough for usual circumstances. |
and most footballers are so thick that a head injury is hard to notice | |
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| 5 Subs on 14:18 - Dec 17 with 913 views | Kennington |
Three subs is enough. If the manager has used all three and a player is suspected by the doctor to have concussion then he has to go off, and it’s the manager’s fault for not keeping a sub held back just in case. | |
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| 5 Subs on 14:48 - Dec 17 with 897 views | Saintsforeverj |
3 subs has been the case for what, 100 years? So why this talk of changing it? The reason is to suit the top clubs. Just because they are in so many competitions (that is their problem isn't it), they want more subs. With 5 subs, it means the top clubs can almost play 2 different teams in each half of a game and / or just have their stars available on the bench if needed.
The smaller clubs haven't got the squad depth for this, so it favours the top clubs and would allow them to do their lucrative trips, with freshly fit players for world championship games etc. Well that's no reason to change the rule for the other 150 professional clubs in England. Most clubs arn't in 5 competitions until the final, travelling to some far away place for lucrative World championships finals. That is their problem, being so greedy, winning it all. If it's such a problem, perhaps they should play their youth in fa cup and league Cup games, get on with it and stop complaining. And this is coming from Klopp mainly isn't it. He can just shut up and get on with it. He already has a great team, what more does he want. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 14:55]
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| 5 Subs on 15:01 - Dec 17 with 876 views | Sadoldgit |
Once upon a time there were no subs at all and then, for many years, just one. | | | |
| 5 Subs on 15:57 - Dec 17 with 853 views | Chesham_Saint |
| 5 Subs on 15:01 - Dec 17 by Sadoldgit |
Once upon a time there were no subs at all and then, for many years, just one. |
You’re right and it wasn’t actually that long again Sogs.
The concussion injury is different as it has potentially massive long term health implications and players can be encouraged to play on through it. A leg break for example, probably isn’t life threatening (although Glyn Pardoe of Man City once nearly died after a George Best tackle that severely broke his leg).
The authorities have no choice here. They have to be proactive as the body of evidence re brain damage is compelling and if they do nothing they’ll face massive law suits and probably go bust which helps nobody.
A carefully controlled allowance of up two 2 subs for concussion seems reasonable to me. |  |
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| 5 Subs on 16:45 - Dec 17 with 828 views | Kennington |
| 5 Subs on 15:57 - Dec 17 by Chesham_Saint |
You’re right and it wasn’t actually that long again Sogs.
The concussion injury is different as it has potentially massive long term health implications and players can be encouraged to play on through it. A leg break for example, probably isn’t life threatening (although Glyn Pardoe of Man City once nearly died after a George Best tackle that severely broke his leg).
The authorities have no choice here. They have to be proactive as the body of evidence re brain damage is compelling and if they do nothing they’ll face massive law suits and probably go bust which helps nobody.
A carefully controlled allowance of up two 2 subs for concussion seems reasonable to me. |
If a player gets a bang to the head then they have to come off, I get that. There’s no question they have to. What I don’t get is why another sub is needed, as a manager has three to use for the game. Those three are supposed to cover injuries and that seems enough to me. Concussion is a medical diagnosis and I don’t believe a clinician is influenced by a manager these days. If it’s proven they are, they have no place in the game or medicine as they are n effect endangering a patient in their care It to me seems another way for bigger clubs to have more flexibility over options off the bench. | |
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| 5 Subs on 20:57 - Dec 17 with 725 views | kingslandstand1 |
| 5 Subs on 16:45 - Dec 17 by Kennington |
If a player gets a bang to the head then they have to come off, I get that. There’s no question they have to. What I don’t get is why another sub is needed, as a manager has three to use for the game. Those three are supposed to cover injuries and that seems enough to me. Concussion is a medical diagnosis and I don’t believe a clinician is influenced by a manager these days. If it’s proven they are, they have no place in the game or medicine as they are n effect endangering a patient in their care It to me seems another way for bigger clubs to have more flexibility over options off the bench. |
Exactly. But now substitutions are used more for tactical reasons (or time wasting) but if they've used their 3 subs and then someone has a bash on the head, what is the manger going to do as the player will say he's fine and will want to carry on.
Also, who decides pitch side if the injury is bad enoug to come off? I'm also sure that certain managers (no names but he again lost his 5 subs wish) will find a way of getting these extra subs on |  | | |
| 5 Subs on 20:58 - Dec 17 with 724 views | cynicalsaint |
| 5 Subs on 14:48 - Dec 17 by Saintsforeverj |
3 subs has been the case for what, 100 years? So why this talk of changing it? The reason is to suit the top clubs. Just because they are in so many competitions (that is their problem isn't it), they want more subs. With 5 subs, it means the top clubs can almost play 2 different teams in each half of a game and / or just have their stars available on the bench if needed.
The smaller clubs haven't got the squad depth for this, so it favours the top clubs and would allow them to do their lucrative trips, with freshly fit players for world championship games etc. Well that's no reason to change the rule for the other 150 professional clubs in England. Most clubs arn't in 5 competitions until the final, travelling to some far away place for lucrative World championships finals. That is their problem, being so greedy, winning it all. If it's such a problem, perhaps they should play their youth in fa cup and league Cup games, get on with it and stop complaining. And this is coming from Klopp mainly isn't it. He can just shut up and get on with it. He already has a great team, what more does he want. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 14:55]
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100 years - seriously?
No subs in England until 1965 - Keith Peacock was the first.
2 subs allowed to be used from 1992
2 + a keeper 1994
3 subs since 1995
so, not really 100 years. | | | |
| 5 Subs on 21:13 - Dec 17 with 712 views | Bazza |
Head injury subs allowed so Klopp will have a field day. | | | |
| 5 Subs on 21:15 - Dec 17 with 710 views | Chesham_Saint |
| 5 Subs on 20:57 - Dec 17 by kingslandstand1 |
Exactly. But now substitutions are used more for tactical reasons (or time wasting) but if they've used their 3 subs and then someone has a bash on the head, what is the manger going to do as the player will say he's fine and will want to carry on.
Also, who decides pitch side if the injury is bad enoug to come off? I'm also sure that certain managers (no names but he again lost his 5 subs wish) will find a way of getting these extra subs on |
Well something has to be done. Perhaps any club relying on this would have to submit full medical info to the league ASAP after the game. Alternatively, have an independent MD present at all games to make the call. This would be costly admittedly, but would be massively outweighed by the legal expense and human cost of subsequent claims.
Rugby has had blood subs for years now and I only know of one obvious abuse for which there was a serious ban (Dean Richards). | |
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| 5 Subs on 21:17 - Dec 17 with 704 views | Saintsforeverj |
| 5 Subs on 20:58 - Dec 17 by cynicalsaint |
100 years - seriously?
No subs in England until 1965 - Keith Peacock was the first.
2 subs allowed to be used from 1992
2 + a keeper 1994
3 subs since 1995
so, not really 100 years. |
Your great knowledge of the history of subs, supports my post nicely. Thanks for mentioning that clubs managed on even less than 3 subs. So, no need for 5 subs (when clubs have managed on 3 subs "or less" for over 100 years) which was actually the point of my post. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 21:31]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 21:40 - Dec 17 with 685 views | cynicalsaint |
| 5 Subs on 21:17 - Dec 17 by Saintsforeverj |
Your great knowledge of the history of subs, supports my post nicely. Thanks for mentioning that clubs managed on even less than 3 subs. So, no need for 5 subs (when clubs have managed on 3 subs "or less" for over 100 years) which was actually the point of my post. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 21:31]
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[Post edited 17 Dec 2020 21:52]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 21:40 - Dec 17 with 683 views | cynicalsaint |
| 5 Subs on 21:17 - Dec 17 by Saintsforeverj |
Your great knowledge of the history of subs, supports my post nicely. Thanks for mentioning that clubs managed on even less than 3 subs. So, no need for 5 subs (when clubs have managed on 3 subs "or less" for over 100 years) which was actually the point of my post. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 21:31]
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| (No subject) (n/t) (n/t) on 21:53 - Dec 17 with 671 views | cynicalsaint |
[Post edited 17 Dec 2020 21:53]
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| 5 Subs on 22:31 - Dec 17 with 636 views | Kennington |
| 5 Subs on 20:57 - Dec 17 by kingslandstand1 |
Exactly. But now substitutions are used more for tactical reasons (or time wasting) but if they've used their 3 subs and then someone has a bash on the head, what is the manger going to do as the player will say he's fine and will want to carry on.
Also, who decides pitch side if the injury is bad enoug to come off? I'm also sure that certain managers (no names but he again lost his 5 subs wish) will find a way of getting these extra subs on |
What if it’s the Harry Kane of a team who gets a bash on the head? Surely if that team only had a Shane Long type on the bench, it doesn’t matter if they have a spare sub or not as they might still say to the star man you’ll be ok and keep playing. The only answer is the team doctor acting with integrity and diagnosing concussion when it’s likely to be concussion. If the team doctor can’t be trusted then they need an independent doctor like boxing. I don’t see how the number of substitutions really comes into this. The only possible reason it comes in is if there’s a negligent doctor that’s influenced by a negligent manager. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 22:33]
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| 5 Subs on 07:31 - Dec 18 with 580 views | dwayne_dibley |
| 5 Subs on 22:31 - Dec 17 by Kennington |
What if it’s the Harry Kane of a team who gets a bash on the head? Surely if that team only had a Shane Long type on the bench, it doesn’t matter if they have a spare sub or not as they might still say to the star man you’ll be ok and keep playing. The only answer is the team doctor acting with integrity and diagnosing concussion when it’s likely to be concussion. If the team doctor can’t be trusted then they need an independent doctor like boxing. I don’t see how the number of substitutions really comes into this. The only possible reason it comes in is if there’s a negligent doctor that’s influenced by a negligent manager. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 22:33]
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corruption in football, surely not! FIFA would never allow it | |
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| 5 Subs on 09:08 - Dec 18 with 563 views | Chesham_Saint |
| 5 Subs on 22:31 - Dec 17 by Kennington |
What if it’s the Harry Kane of a team who gets a bash on the head? Surely if that team only had a Shane Long type on the bench, it doesn’t matter if they have a spare sub or not as they might still say to the star man you’ll be ok and keep playing. The only answer is the team doctor acting with integrity and diagnosing concussion when it’s likely to be concussion. If the team doctor can’t be trusted then they need an independent doctor like boxing. I don’t see how the number of substitutions really comes into this. The only possible reason it comes in is if there’s a negligent doctor that’s influenced by a negligent manager. [Post edited 17 Dec 2020 22:33]
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As I said, the presence of an independent physician is probably the way forward. There can be so much at stake that it would be unfair really for a doctor linked to or employed by a club to have to make the call. There is a presumption of impartiality with the referee, so why not an Independent medico?
Again though, something has to be done or that “star man” could, in a few short years, be suing the club for negligence for serious amounts of compensation. Factor in 2 or 3 players over every 5 year period and clubs will go bust. Big clubs too, not just minnows like the Hillbillies.
Once one claim or class action is successful the floodgates will open. Clubs who do nothing pretty much from now on could be in serious jeopardy. And again, this isn’t just about money, it’s a life ruining and shortening condition we’re talking about. | |
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