| Evertons Owner 16:17 - Feb 15 with 4379 views | Butty101 |
@Solent Toffee - is your owner loading your club with debt? Or is he using his own cash.
Nick constantly referers to your owner and critises his ambition, suggesting hes not really bank rolling it, just lending the club money. The club hasnt progressed etc.
Personally i would assume Everton's fans must be pinching themselves at the ambitions the club have.
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| Evertons Owner on 07:25 - Feb 17 with 908 views | Berber |
| Evertons Owner on 16:55 - Feb 15 by DorsetIan |
When an owner of a business (and bearing in mind that Nick wants Saints to be run as a business) wants to grow a business, it is entirely normal for them to lend money to it, rather than simply donating it. The other common option is for them to put money in in exchange for more share capital. Either way, they are hoping to get their money back (usually at the time of a future sale).
Nick characterises everyone who doesn't share his benevolent view of Gao, as wanting an owner who will 'throw money' at the Club.
He's got that wrong. It's not about having a generous owner who is going to fund our passion with gifts of his own money. It's simply about having an owner who can ensure sensible/necessary investment in the club.
Our current owner doesn't seem able to do that. To coin a phrase, he is 'not fit for purpose'. |
This is not an attack, but to clarify your statements: So loans are good then? Does that make the £80m loan the club took out early last year a good thing? Do you suppose that it happened without Gao's knowledge or consent? Does it indicate "not fit for purpose"? Or do you think that he should be loaning the club his own money that the Chinese government will not allow? Because that is not his decision either.
I am not a supporter of detractor of Gao, but a lot of what is written about him is utter tosh by fans who simply want more. There are fans on this forum who will not even risk leaving their ST money until next season in case the club struggles financially.
Other than VVD, who had previously made his intentions clear at or before the time Gao bought in, the club has not sold any key players in the squad under Gao's tenure, but they have bought Danny Ings and made some modest investments in players that exceed the minor income from other sales. The massive waste of money on failed players was Gao's inheritance, not his bidding. They have also paid quite a lot to ditch failing managers that were taking the club in the wrong direction. But clubs like Everton have done that too. |  | | |
| Evertons Owner on 09:38 - Feb 17 with 874 views | Butty101 |
| Evertons Owner on 07:25 - Feb 17 by Berber |
This is not an attack, but to clarify your statements: So loans are good then? Does that make the £80m loan the club took out early last year a good thing? Do you suppose that it happened without Gao's knowledge or consent? Does it indicate "not fit for purpose"? Or do you think that he should be loaning the club his own money that the Chinese government will not allow? Because that is not his decision either.
I am not a supporter of detractor of Gao, but a lot of what is written about him is utter tosh by fans who simply want more. There are fans on this forum who will not even risk leaving their ST money until next season in case the club struggles financially.
Other than VVD, who had previously made his intentions clear at or before the time Gao bought in, the club has not sold any key players in the squad under Gao's tenure, but they have bought Danny Ings and made some modest investments in players that exceed the minor income from other sales. The massive waste of money on failed players was Gao's inheritance, not his bidding. They have also paid quite a lot to ditch failing managers that were taking the club in the wrong direction. But clubs like Everton have done that too. |
Berber - We have sold key players - Tadic and Hojberg for instance. The only reason we havent sold anyone else is because most have been duff and have no takers.
Will we hang on to Ings this summer if he dosent sign a contract? I doubt it. Other than him, i dont think the big 6 will want the rest of our squad so we will be able to hang onto them lol.
And under Gaos rule we bought Carrilo, Elyounoussi and Gunn and employed Hughes so plenty of duffers on his watch. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 11:37 - Feb 17 with 861 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 07:25 - Feb 17 by Berber |
This is not an attack, but to clarify your statements: So loans are good then? Does that make the £80m loan the club took out early last year a good thing? Do you suppose that it happened without Gao's knowledge or consent? Does it indicate "not fit for purpose"? Or do you think that he should be loaning the club his own money that the Chinese government will not allow? Because that is not his decision either.
I am not a supporter of detractor of Gao, but a lot of what is written about him is utter tosh by fans who simply want more. There are fans on this forum who will not even risk leaving their ST money until next season in case the club struggles financially.
Other than VVD, who had previously made his intentions clear at or before the time Gao bought in, the club has not sold any key players in the squad under Gao's tenure, but they have bought Danny Ings and made some modest investments in players that exceed the minor income from other sales. The massive waste of money on failed players was Gao's inheritance, not his bidding. They have also paid quite a lot to ditch failing managers that were taking the club in the wrong direction. But clubs like Everton have done that too. |
Loans are neither good not bad, per se. I thought the club had arranged a 'facility' rather than a loan and at a very high rate of interest.
Every company needs to be a 'going concern'. I get the impression that that facility is there to enable us to function at all. And if the club is being forced to borrow at ridiculous rates of interest, then that is more evidence for me that we are living hand to mouth.
You say that we haven't sold anyone, but in addition to those mentioned in the previous post, we have also lost Targett, Reed and Lemina, all of whom are playing in the Premier League now. Also, Carillo, Hoedt and Boufal have gone.
I am not saying that all of those should have stayed (although I would feel a lot happier now if Targett and Boufal were still here) but the point is that players have left and they haven't really been replaced.
I don't see how it can be argued that the squad has not got weaker under Gao's period of ownership, and the 9-0s, the 6 losses and the fragility and inconsistency are also not in dispute. I am just connecting these two things with the distinct cashflow issues and for that reason saying 'not fit for purpose'. |  |
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| Evertons Owner on 13:19 - Feb 17 with 841 views | SaintNick |
| Evertons Owner on 11:37 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
Loans are neither good not bad, per se. I thought the club had arranged a 'facility' rather than a loan and at a very high rate of interest.
Every company needs to be a 'going concern'. I get the impression that that facility is there to enable us to function at all. And if the club is being forced to borrow at ridiculous rates of interest, then that is more evidence for me that we are living hand to mouth.
You say that we haven't sold anyone, but in addition to those mentioned in the previous post, we have also lost Targett, Reed and Lemina, all of whom are playing in the Premier League now. Also, Carillo, Hoedt and Boufal have gone.
I am not saying that all of those should have stayed (although I would feel a lot happier now if Targett and Boufal were still here) but the point is that players have left and they haven't really been replaced.
I don't see how it can be argued that the squad has not got weaker under Gao's period of ownership, and the 9-0s, the 6 losses and the fragility and inconsistency are also not in dispute. I am just connecting these two things with the distinct cashflow issues and for that reason saying 'not fit for purpose'. |
Loans are both good and bad, good as they can enable owners to invest and then at some stage write off the debt against tax, but bad in that the club does own the money so an owner can ask for it back.
Yes we are living hand to mouth, this is because of the situation the world is in, a year ago the club took out the facility thinking this would be a short term thing, a year later and all football clubs have found revenue streams decimated, it's not a Saints thing it is a football thing and everyone has had to cut their cloth to suit.
It's amazing how suddenly certain players are held up as being evidence we are a selling club.
Tadic - Undoubted talent but not consistent enough, left because he had a year left on his contract so needed to sell or lose him for nothing
Hojbjerg - Another who was not rated by a large amount of the fan base, left because he was tapped up by Spurs so either sell him or lose him for nothing
Targett - Played 43 times for Saints in the Premier League, could not force his way past Ryan Bertrand, wanted first team football, never given any credit by supporters at the time, but as Bertrand grows old, suddenly he is a player we never should have sold 2 years ago.
Reed- Last played a game for Saints in April 2017 , 3 years before he finally left, 5 managers could not see that he was better than what we had, he only started 6 League games for Saints plus 11 as sub ,would he get in before JWP, Romeu or indeed Hojbjerg during his time here, or for that matter Lemina, didn' t have a future here got a good price for him, good luck to him but he wasn't a vital player in the squad
Lemina - Dont even go there.
Boufal - Talented scored 3 Premier League goals plus about the same number in assists in 31 starts and 39 as sub, 3 great goals little else, why on earth would you be happy a player with that sort of record was still here, cost us £28 million includuding wages (Celta Vigo probably gave us £1 million) for "3" Premier League goals !!!!!! I'm truly interested to here what he would have contributed as it was virtually nothing last season for his £3.5 million , Charlie Austin contributed more.
I could argue that the squad is stronger than it was when Gao took over quite easily back then it was full of the likes of players you praise who didn't deliver, we never had 9 injuries at once back then |  |
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| Evertons Owner on 13:49 - Feb 17 with 823 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 13:19 - Feb 17 by SaintNick |
Loans are both good and bad, good as they can enable owners to invest and then at some stage write off the debt against tax, but bad in that the club does own the money so an owner can ask for it back.
Yes we are living hand to mouth, this is because of the situation the world is in, a year ago the club took out the facility thinking this would be a short term thing, a year later and all football clubs have found revenue streams decimated, it's not a Saints thing it is a football thing and everyone has had to cut their cloth to suit.
It's amazing how suddenly certain players are held up as being evidence we are a selling club.
Tadic - Undoubted talent but not consistent enough, left because he had a year left on his contract so needed to sell or lose him for nothing
Hojbjerg - Another who was not rated by a large amount of the fan base, left because he was tapped up by Spurs so either sell him or lose him for nothing
Targett - Played 43 times for Saints in the Premier League, could not force his way past Ryan Bertrand, wanted first team football, never given any credit by supporters at the time, but as Bertrand grows old, suddenly he is a player we never should have sold 2 years ago.
Reed- Last played a game for Saints in April 2017 , 3 years before he finally left, 5 managers could not see that he was better than what we had, he only started 6 League games for Saints plus 11 as sub ,would he get in before JWP, Romeu or indeed Hojbjerg during his time here, or for that matter Lemina, didn' t have a future here got a good price for him, good luck to him but he wasn't a vital player in the squad
Lemina - Dont even go there.
Boufal - Talented scored 3 Premier League goals plus about the same number in assists in 31 starts and 39 as sub, 3 great goals little else, why on earth would you be happy a player with that sort of record was still here, cost us £28 million includuding wages (Celta Vigo probably gave us £1 million) for "3" Premier League goals !!!!!! I'm truly interested to here what he would have contributed as it was virtually nothing last season for his £3.5 million , Charlie Austin contributed more.
I could argue that the squad is stronger than it was when Gao took over quite easily back then it was full of the likes of players you praise who didn't deliver, we never had 9 injuries at once back then |
Nobody is critiquing every previous sale. But you lose players like Tadic, Boufal and Targett and you hope that they are replaced by players who are at least as good, if not better.
The issue isn't who has left. It's who, if anyone, has replaced them? That's what's weakened the squad.
In terms of living hand to mouth, the Covid difficulties have been there a year. Gao has been the owner since August 2017. It feels to me as though we've been living from hand to mouth since he took over. And certainly since the desperate last minute Danso loan in August 2019. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 15:04 - Feb 17 with 796 views | SaintNick |
| Evertons Owner on 13:49 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
Nobody is critiquing every previous sale. But you lose players like Tadic, Boufal and Targett and you hope that they are replaced by players who are at least as good, if not better.
The issue isn't who has left. It's who, if anyone, has replaced them? That's what's weakened the squad.
In terms of living hand to mouth, the Covid difficulties have been there a year. Gao has been the owner since August 2017. It feels to me as though we've been living from hand to mouth since he took over. And certainly since the desperate last minute Danso loan in August 2019. |
Im sorry but you keep saying lose players like Boufal and Targett, we have better players than them, Targett barely played and Boufal averaged 1 goal a season,Redmond, Minamino & Walcott already have that or better, Armstrong as well, even Djenepo has scored, so from that perspective we are not missing Boufal one iota, so why keep using him as an example, he has been replaced , we have 5 players who would all get in before him
Targett would have played twice this season if he was still here, perhaps Vokins isnt as good as Targett is now, but he isnt far behind in terms of the level Targett was at the same age | |
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| Evertons Owner on 15:17 - Feb 17 with 791 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 15:04 - Feb 17 by SaintNick |
Im sorry but you keep saying lose players like Boufal and Targett, we have better players than them, Targett barely played and Boufal averaged 1 goal a season,Redmond, Minamino & Walcott already have that or better, Armstrong as well, even Djenepo has scored, so from that perspective we are not missing Boufal one iota, so why keep using him as an example, he has been replaced , we have 5 players who would all get in before him
Targett would have played twice this season if he was still here, perhaps Vokins isnt as good as Targett is now, but he isnt far behind in terms of the level Targett was at the same age |
The depth of the squad is now obviously very thin. The inconsistency shows it, the qualify of the benches show it, the extreme results show it.
This is because many players have left and very many of them haven't been replaced or not by better players.
Who is Djenepo meant to have replaced - whoever it is, he hasn't improved on him!
And how can you compare Targett and Vokins? Targett's proved that he could play at this level before he left. Vokins has played a handful of games and, despite the fact that we have no cover at left back, has been shipped out on loan.
I think we have to agree to disagree on this because if you can't see that our squad has become weaker and that's the underlying problem, then what can I say? It's blindingly obvious to me that this is the case. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 15:19 - Feb 17 with 788 views | TimSaint |
| Evertons Owner on 11:20 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan |
I hear all that, but I look at the state of our bench and, for example, the fact that we are relying on someone as ineffective as Djenepo as one of our most experienced players. And I'm sorry but the quality of our squad has fallen off a cliff. That's down to underinvestment and that's why we are so inconsistent.
Points lost from winning positions; 9-0; 6 on the bounce - the long term reason is the same in every case. Squad too weak. |
The bottom line is we are skint, so we are currently trying to get as many players off the books as possible, in order just to save an extra grand or two per week.
Obviously the pandemic hasn't helped but, but one of the main reasons we cannot invest in the current squad, is because of all the utterly piss poor decision making we have made with regard to recent contracts and signings.
Lemina we signed for £18m. Played half a season, injured the rest and then has a bad attitude so wants out. Nobody wants to buy him, so we loan him out. We are still paying towards his transfer fee every year (they are often tiered to repay over the duration of the agreed contract ie 5 years) and in addition to that, we are still paying the majority of his wage, as there is no way a Turkish club or even perhaps Fulham will pay his full wage in addition to a loan fee.
It is exactly the same for Elyounoussi - still paying towards his fee and still paying probably 75+% of his wages every week, yet he has no interest or intent in playing for us, regardless of what he says.
Same with Hoedt - once he fell from grace, nobody wanted to buy him despite him saying teams were queuing up for his services. So again he is loaned and we pay the majority of his wages and are probably still paying towards his transfer.
Forster - he was going to be the next big name to leave Saints, so we gave him a bumper contract to maximise sale value, but he lost confidence in his ability and buggered off north of the border for a couple of years, all the time we paid at least 75% of his wages.
Carillo - waste of £18m and his wages. Rubbish for the money and after a couple of loans we had to pay up his contract. We are probably still paying for his transfer and wages !!
Long - gave him a bumper 2 year contract last year. Can't get in the team, so ship him out on loan. Bet we are still paying a fair chunk of his wages.
Gunn - such promise yet not confidence after the Leicester game. Now we are paying most of his wage whilst he recovers from injury and makes the odd appearance for Stoke in the Champ.
Then add to the list the likes of
Slattery - showed promise under Koeman and not featured since
Hesketh - again showed promise years ago and only been on loan since
Sims - as above
Valery
Vokins
That list contains TWELVE players that we are paying salaries for, that in other circumstances should be featuring regularly in our match day squads. Instead we are hemorrhaging unsustainable amounts of money on them - which is why we are forced to loan players out.
What is going to happen ? Who knows. We need to get rid of many of them, but either nobody wants them or they are unwilling to buy them at our asking price, so we either sell on the cheap and lose money, or they see out their contracts and leave for free - once they have collected their loyalty bonuses !! |  |
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| Evertons Owner on 15:23 - Feb 17 with 787 views | Butty101 |
| Evertons Owner on 15:04 - Feb 17 by SaintNick |
Im sorry but you keep saying lose players like Boufal and Targett, we have better players than them, Targett barely played and Boufal averaged 1 goal a season,Redmond, Minamino & Walcott already have that or better, Armstrong as well, even Djenepo has scored, so from that perspective we are not missing Boufal one iota, so why keep using him as an example, he has been replaced , we have 5 players who would all get in before him
Targett would have played twice this season if he was still here, perhaps Vokins isnt as good as Targett is now, but he isnt far behind in terms of the level Targett was at the same age |
Nick You are missing the point. Targett was back up to Bertrand and has been sold. We dont have anywhere near the quality of cover he provided. Hence the squad is weaker.
Redmond and Djenepo have both been poor for 18months and just not good enough. Both have actually gone backwards. Its not like you can even blame the fans being that they are not in the ground. They have been that bad you could imagine a situation were they end up going out on loan for the remainder of their contracts.
As for Minamino lets not get carried away he scored a good goal on debut, but he was pretty awful on sunday. He wouldnt be getting in the team with everyone fit. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 15:33 - Feb 17 with 779 views | SaintNick |
| Evertons Owner on 15:17 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
The depth of the squad is now obviously very thin. The inconsistency shows it, the qualify of the benches show it, the extreme results show it.
This is because many players have left and very many of them haven't been replaced or not by better players.
Who is Djenepo meant to have replaced - whoever it is, he hasn't improved on him!
And how can you compare Targett and Vokins? Targett's proved that he could play at this level before he left. Vokins has played a handful of games and, despite the fact that we have no cover at left back, has been shipped out on loan.
I think we have to agree to disagree on this because if you can't see that our squad has become weaker and that's the underlying problem, then what can I say? It's blindingly obvious to me that this is the case. |
If we say Djenepo has replaced Boufal then the improvement is easy to see.
2020/21
Djenepo 11 games (5) 1 goal
2019/20
Boufal 8 games (12 as sub) 0 goals
Djenepo 10 games (8) 2 goals
So if we take the last two seasons where both players have played in two of those seasons, it is clear that Djenepo has made more of a contribution than Boufal,
Bear in mind this is the comparison you wanted to use about the squad not me, Boufal's last meaningful contribution aside from the assist at Brighton last season, was back in October 2017 when he scored that wonder goal against West Brom
I actually thought Boufal was a very talented player, but unfortunately he had no end product, he should have gone back in the summer of 2019, but scoring at Feynenoord in a friendly meant that people salivated over him and he got given another chance, he didn't take him, as I said if he was here now he wouldnt get a kick, Minamino has done more in 2 games than him, Theo Walcott has done more, Redmond has done more, Armstrong has done more, even Djenepo has contributed more.
The squad is weaker because of an injury crisis and bad leading to a run of poor results , no one was complaining about it in November and December | |
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| Evertons Owner on 16:13 - Feb 17 with 763 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 15:33 - Feb 17 by SaintNick |
If we say Djenepo has replaced Boufal then the improvement is easy to see.
2020/21
Djenepo 11 games (5) 1 goal
2019/20
Boufal 8 games (12 as sub) 0 goals
Djenepo 10 games (8) 2 goals
So if we take the last two seasons where both players have played in two of those seasons, it is clear that Djenepo has made more of a contribution than Boufal,
Bear in mind this is the comparison you wanted to use about the squad not me, Boufal's last meaningful contribution aside from the assist at Brighton last season, was back in October 2017 when he scored that wonder goal against West Brom
I actually thought Boufal was a very talented player, but unfortunately he had no end product, he should have gone back in the summer of 2019, but scoring at Feynenoord in a friendly meant that people salivated over him and he got given another chance, he didn't take him, as I said if he was here now he wouldnt get a kick, Minamino has done more in 2 games than him, Theo Walcott has done more, Redmond has done more, Armstrong has done more, even Djenepo has contributed more.
The squad is weaker because of an injury crisis and bad leading to a run of poor results , no one was complaining about it in November and December |
If you think that Djenepo is an improvement on Boufal then we really do need to agree to disagree!
You are looking at in only in terms of goals scored. I am looking it in terms of being premier league quality players. Boufal proved he was. IMO Djenepo isn't and simply lacks a lot of the basics skills (like tackling and being comfortable on the ball) that you would expect a footballer at this level to possess.
Djenepo was directly involved in 3 of the goals against Utd. When he comes on he invariably weakens the team.
Our season turned last year against Watford at home last year when Boufal came on the the 57th minute, and he attacked them. We turned around the 0-1 in the 78th and 83rd minutes. As I remember he didn't get too many opportunities after that.
Look too at Boufal's stats for beating players when he was in Spain.
You couldn't really have picked a better example of how our squad has become weaker than this one. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 18:47 - Feb 17 with 723 views | Saintsforeverj |
Harrison Reed and Matt Target are great examples of players we let go really cheaply. They are now established PL players. I seem to remember having to sell Targett in order to afford Adams. This is the sort of thing, making our squad weak and therefore we suffer during the season because of a threadbare squad. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 21:00 - Feb 17 with 707 views | Butty101 |
| Evertons Owner on 16:13 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
If you think that Djenepo is an improvement on Boufal then we really do need to agree to disagree!
You are looking at in only in terms of goals scored. I am looking it in terms of being premier league quality players. Boufal proved he was. IMO Djenepo isn't and simply lacks a lot of the basics skills (like tackling and being comfortable on the ball) that you would expect a footballer at this level to possess.
Djenepo was directly involved in 3 of the goals against Utd. When he comes on he invariably weakens the team.
Our season turned last year against Watford at home last year when Boufal came on the the 57th minute, and he attacked them. We turned around the 0-1 in the 78th and 83rd minutes. As I remember he didn't get too many opportunities after that.
Look too at Boufal's stats for beating players when he was in Spain.
You couldn't really have picked a better example of how our squad has become weaker than this one. |
I’m amazed Nick is trying to argue this on stats alone. It’s never that black and white. I came to the view along time his opinions are there to antagonise and increase traffic | |
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| Evertons Owner on 13:18 - Feb 18 with 654 views | Berber |
| Evertons Owner on 09:38 - Feb 17 by Butty101 |
Berber - We have sold key players - Tadic and Hojberg for instance. The only reason we havent sold anyone else is because most have been duff and have no takers.
Will we hang on to Ings this summer if he dosent sign a contract? I doubt it. Other than him, i dont think the big 6 will want the rest of our squad so we will be able to hang onto them lol.
And under Gaos rule we bought Carrilo, Elyounoussi and Gunn and employed Hughes so plenty of duffers on his watch. |
Yep, but any more duffer than with previous owners? I'd say not. | | | |
| Evertons Owner on 22:36 - Feb 18 with 609 views | Messysaints |
| Evertons Owner on 16:13 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
If you think that Djenepo is an improvement on Boufal then we really do need to agree to disagree!
You are looking at in only in terms of goals scored. I am looking it in terms of being premier league quality players. Boufal proved he was. IMO Djenepo isn't and simply lacks a lot of the basics skills (like tackling and being comfortable on the ball) that you would expect a footballer at this level to possess.
Djenepo was directly involved in 3 of the goals against Utd. When he comes on he invariably weakens the team.
Our season turned last year against Watford at home last year when Boufal came on the the 57th minute, and he attacked them. We turned around the 0-1 in the 78th and 83rd minutes. As I remember he didn't get too many opportunities after that.
Look too at Boufal's stats for beating players when he was in Spain.
You couldn't really have picked a better example of how our squad has become weaker than this one. |
Boufal was poor, Djenepo isnt much better, but Djenepo has not been here long and has contributed just as much as boufal in his whole time here, we all know Boufal could dribble and beat his man a number of times before back up arrived to take the ball of him and yes he did have that 1 special shot a season in him, but after that 1 special moment it was mostly bad before and after, and was no team player.
Djenepo is what 22 years old? still time to improve his game, Boufal is 27? wont get any better and wasnt very good when here either 5 goals 5 assist 4 seasons 84 apps..... no way is tht a good return for a forward. He cant even keep him self in SCO Angers starting eleven....
He wouldnt get game time over Theo, Armstrong, Redders, or Djenepo, only reason Djenepo gets game time because he has alot of potential if he can improve just a little more he will be a very good player imho. | | | |
| Evertons Owner on 23:17 - Feb 18 with 593 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 22:36 - Feb 18 by Messysaints |
Boufal was poor, Djenepo isnt much better, but Djenepo has not been here long and has contributed just as much as boufal in his whole time here, we all know Boufal could dribble and beat his man a number of times before back up arrived to take the ball of him and yes he did have that 1 special shot a season in him, but after that 1 special moment it was mostly bad before and after, and was no team player.
Djenepo is what 22 years old? still time to improve his game, Boufal is 27? wont get any better and wasnt very good when here either 5 goals 5 assist 4 seasons 84 apps..... no way is tht a good return for a forward. He cant even keep him self in SCO Angers starting eleven....
He wouldnt get game time over Theo, Armstrong, Redders, or Djenepo, only reason Djenepo gets game time because he has alot of potential if he can improve just a little more he will be a very good player imho. |
Fair enough if you think Djenepo has potential. I would love to be proved wrong, but I think he is completely hopeless and just can't see that he's got enough to build on.
Boufal could control the ball, hold up play, lay off a pass, take people on. He was a delight to watch. Sure, he didn't score enough goals and it was always a complete mystery to me why noone could get the best out of him, but he was premier league quality without doubt.
Djenepo in contrast can't tackle. A lot of the time he seems to struggle to know where he's supposes to be on the pitch. But the very worst is that I can't remember a player less comfortable on the ball.
And even if he's got potential, at the moment he isn't playing at a good enough level to offer very much to the team imo. And that's my point about a weakened squad. We are having to play people who just aren't ready or who aren't yet good enough. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 06:19 - Feb 19 with 582 views | Messysaints |
| Evertons Owner on 23:17 - Feb 18 by DorsetIan |
Fair enough if you think Djenepo has potential. I would love to be proved wrong, but I think he is completely hopeless and just can't see that he's got enough to build on.
Boufal could control the ball, hold up play, lay off a pass, take people on. He was a delight to watch. Sure, he didn't score enough goals and it was always a complete mystery to me why noone could get the best out of him, but he was premier league quality without doubt.
Djenepo in contrast can't tackle. A lot of the time he seems to struggle to know where he's supposes to be on the pitch. But the very worst is that I can't remember a player less comfortable on the ball.
And even if he's got potential, at the moment he isn't playing at a good enough level to offer very much to the team imo. And that's my point about a weakened squad. We are having to play people who just aren't ready or who aren't yet good enough. |
If thats the case, Why cant he get SCO Angers team? its not like they are full to the brim with top top players,is it? he sits on the bench while a 32 year old left back plays in his LM spot... such awesomeness he had a queue of teams waiting to sign him while he walked out of SM as free agent... OFC!!!!!! LOL | | | |
| Evertons Owner on 10:26 - Feb 19 with 546 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 06:19 - Feb 19 by Messysaints |
If thats the case, Why cant he get SCO Angers team? its not like they are full to the brim with top top players,is it? he sits on the bench while a 32 year old left back plays in his LM spot... such awesomeness he had a queue of teams waiting to sign him while he walked out of SM as free agent... OFC!!!!!! LOL |
I'm just giving it you as I see it in terms of Boufal v Djenepo at Saints.
Anyway, maybe you're right, maybe there will be a game soon when I am not screaming at the TV screen about Djenepo.
Fingers crossed. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 10:41 - Feb 19 with 544 views | Sadoldgit |
Boufal reminds me of Ferguson’s comment about Beckham. He was not a World class player but he did have world class moments. Boufal was not a premier league class player, but he did have premier league class moments. Not enough sadly. As for Moussa, there is a player in there somewhere but at the moment it is hard to see past the Bambi on ice demeanour. Perhaps Ralph is trying to turn him into something he isn’t as there seems to be a real effort to conform when his abilities seem unconformist, but something isn’t gelling there at present. The way that he attempts to tackle leaves him open to injury and I would be surprised if he isn’t due another long lay off soon. |  | | |
| Evertons Owner on 11:17 - Feb 19 with 539 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 10:41 - Feb 19 by Sadoldgit |
Boufal reminds me of Ferguson’s comment about Beckham. He was not a World class player but he did have world class moments. Boufal was not a premier league class player, but he did have premier league class moments. Not enough sadly. As for Moussa, there is a player in there somewhere but at the moment it is hard to see past the Bambi on ice demeanour. Perhaps Ralph is trying to turn him into something he isn’t as there seems to be a real effort to conform when his abilities seem unconformist, but something isn’t gelling there at present. The way that he attempts to tackle leaves him open to injury and I would be surprised if he isn’t due another long lay off soon. |
Djenepo is getting cut a lot of slack! 'Potential' 'player in there somewhere' (that 'somewhere' is damning) 'abilities seem unconformist'.
Or perhaps he's just not very good.
I think I'm being too harsh. He seems like an honest player, he has a lot of nervous energy, he puts a shift in. He smiles more than Boufal ever did. I try to recognise it when he does good things.
But my God he's frustrating to watch! And - for the moment at least - he is one of our squad's many weak links. | |
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| Evertons Owner on 12:17 - Feb 19 with 525 views | Sadoldgit |
| Evertons Owner on 11:17 - Feb 19 by DorsetIan |
Djenepo is getting cut a lot of slack! 'Potential' 'player in there somewhere' (that 'somewhere' is damning) 'abilities seem unconformist'.
Or perhaps he's just not very good.
I think I'm being too harsh. He seems like an honest player, he has a lot of nervous energy, he puts a shift in. He smiles more than Boufal ever did. I try to recognise it when he does good things.
But my God he's frustrating to watch! And - for the moment at least - he is one of our squad's many weak links. |
I don’t disagree, but there are times when he goes passed players like they are not there or he will produce a bit of sublime skill. I know we say the same about Boufal. The club obviously saw something in him to sign him and Ralph seems to rate him, so who knows? When he first burst on the scene he looked like he could be a player but the long lay off doesn’t seem to have done him any favours. I do also wonder if playing to tight instructions suit his style. Still, time will tell if he has something or not. | | | |
| Evertons Owner on 17:05 - Feb 19 with 496 views | saintwizzler |
Wait till he’s playing Right Back tomorrow. |  |
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| Evertons Owner on 12:29 - Feb 20 with 447 views | Berber |
| Evertons Owner on 11:37 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
Loans are neither good not bad, per se. I thought the club had arranged a 'facility' rather than a loan and at a very high rate of interest.
Every company needs to be a 'going concern'. I get the impression that that facility is there to enable us to function at all. And if the club is being forced to borrow at ridiculous rates of interest, then that is more evidence for me that we are living hand to mouth.
You say that we haven't sold anyone, but in addition to those mentioned in the previous post, we have also lost Targett, Reed and Lemina, all of whom are playing in the Premier League now. Also, Carillo, Hoedt and Boufal have gone.
I am not saying that all of those should have stayed (although I would feel a lot happier now if Targett and Boufal were still here) but the point is that players have left and they haven't really been replaced.
I don't see how it can be argued that the squad has not got weaker under Gao's period of ownership, and the 9-0s, the 6 losses and the fragility and inconsistency are also not in dispute. I am just connecting these two things with the distinct cashflow issues and for that reason saying 'not fit for purpose'. |
I did say "key" players. Read and Lemina definitely don't qualify in my mind. Facilities generally mean loan facilities which include either loans taken out or capacity available to be drawn down as a loan, so for medium to long term, can be treated the same if looking at viability.
It is true that the rate is quite high, indicating the lender sees a degree of risk in the loan. I guess if I was a lender, I would look at the assets the club has for £80m security (not much apart from the ground), the ownership "somewhere in China, and I'd not be clear about how I could get my money back in the event of a default, so yes, a bit risky if getting money out of China is not easy.
Selling off players and repatriating the funds was a process mainly instigated by KL to get back the family funds her father had (from their perspective) unwisely been persuaded to invest, so not really a Gao activity. I'd class him as neither good not bad for the club. | | | |
| Evertons Owner on 14:37 - Feb 20 with 425 views | DorsetIan |
| Evertons Owner on 12:29 - Feb 20 by Berber |
I did say "key" players. Read and Lemina definitely don't qualify in my mind. Facilities generally mean loan facilities which include either loans taken out or capacity available to be drawn down as a loan, so for medium to long term, can be treated the same if looking at viability.
It is true that the rate is quite high, indicating the lender sees a degree of risk in the loan. I guess if I was a lender, I would look at the assets the club has for £80m security (not much apart from the ground), the ownership "somewhere in China, and I'd not be clear about how I could get my money back in the event of a default, so yes, a bit risky if getting money out of China is not easy.
Selling off players and repatriating the funds was a process mainly instigated by KL to get back the family funds her father had (from their perspective) unwisely been persuaded to invest, so not really a Gao activity. I'd class him as neither good not bad for the club. |
KL got her money when she sold her shares. How much money did she take out before then? | |
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| Evertons Owner on 14:59 - Feb 20 with 413 views | Berber |
| Evertons Owner on 14:37 - Feb 20 by DorsetIan |
KL got her money when she sold her shares. How much money did she take out before then? |
You'll have me for being lazy here. I don't think all the money we got selling to Liverpool and Man U were retained and reinvested, however poorly (without having a trawl through the accounts). The fact that there was no money in the bank is a clue. The old accounting adage, in the long term, profits equals cash remains true. And the club made masses of profit on those sales. | | | |
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