| Attendances dipping 08:54 - Aug 18 with 12300 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Much talk about this pre season.
It appears the average is over 1000 down on last season so far.
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| Attendances dipping on 11:46 - Aug 20 with 616 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 11:41 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
Comparing 2 games with the equivalent 2 games, be that it terms in of opposition or stage of the season is a lot less flawed than comparing 2 games with 23.
We have done that, we have also compared both from last season to the seasons average.
You would not be making this point had we started against Norwich and Sunderland.
In 21 home games time, you may well have a point. At the moment, it just comes across as an attempt to discredit the manager. |
But they aren’t equivalent games, different months, different league positions, different fan morale etc etc
This is why you must take a seasons average against the most complete data set you have in the season you wish to compare.
It’s far more telling than picking 2 games and comparing them to 2 games.
Again, if you thought that then you would take my bet. I’ll even give you a 500 average leeway (so far you only think it’s 120 so that’s massively in your favour).
The only reason you wouldn’t take that is if you agree attendances have and will continue to dip.
And we both know you won’t. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 11:55 - Aug 20 with 597 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 11:46 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
But they aren’t equivalent games, different months, different league positions, different fan morale etc etc
This is why you must take a seasons average against the most complete data set you have in the season you wish to compare.
It’s far more telling than picking 2 games and comparing them to 2 games.
Again, if you thought that then you would take my bet. I’ll even give you a 500 average leeway (so far you only think it’s 120 so that’s massively in your favour).
The only reason you wouldn’t take that is if you agree attendances have and will continue to dip.
And we both know you won’t. |
The way you’re calculating it takes advantage of better supported teams than Milwall and Blackburn bringing more fans. It’s that simple.
It’s hardly as if I’m comparing this seasons 2 games to 2 randomly plucked games is it? We’ve literally compared the same teams and the same period. Then for good measure, we have gone back and compared attendances in both last season against the seasons average (which included Cardiff, Bristol, Forest etc and unsurprisingly came out higher than Milwall and Blackburn).
According to transfermarkt Huddersfield were closest to us attendance wise last season (we averaged 64 more than them). How about them? |  | | |
| Attendances dipping on 12:02 - Aug 20 with 587 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 11:55 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
The way you’re calculating it takes advantage of better supported teams than Milwall and Blackburn bringing more fans. It’s that simple.
It’s hardly as if I’m comparing this seasons 2 games to 2 randomly plucked games is it? We’ve literally compared the same teams and the same period. Then for good measure, we have gone back and compared attendances in both last season against the seasons average (which included Cardiff, Bristol, Forest etc and unsurprisingly came out higher than Milwall and Blackburn).
According to transfermarkt Huddersfield were closest to us attendance wise last season (we averaged 64 more than them). How about them? |
It’s not how I’m calculating it, it’s just how it is.
If you had any faith in what you were arguing then you would make that bet with me, with it being massively in your favour.
I will give you 500 leeway. So I am saying we will average 501+ less attendance than last season. What we have seen in the opening games this season is a trend that will continue.
Doesn’t matter about teams with similar attendances to us, it’s a % we will be looking at. Blackburn had a very average season last season, this year it looks like they will do extremely well and are playing some excellent football.
So the other bet is that I think our attendance will fall at a greater % than theirs.
Either one is perfectly fine with me, and should be perfectly fine with you of course.
Just let me know how much. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 12:04 - Aug 20 with 582 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Blackburn had an average attendance of 13,032 last season by the way.
This season they are averaging 14,643.
So either the cost of living crisis hasn’t reached Blackburn yet, or their attendances go up and down depending on fan excitement and faith in the coming season.
What do you think is more likely? | |
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| Attendances dipping on 12:11 - Aug 20 with 570 views | Dr_Parnassus |
- Hull City (2nd). Last season (19th) averaged 12,324.
This season averaging 16,848.
We can do them if you like?
- Cardiff City (7th). Last season (18th) averaged 17,915.
This season averaging 19,431.
We can do them too?
That’s 3 of the top 6 who look like they will do far better this season than last and all thousands up on last seasons attendances despite the excuses people are making regarding cost of living etc.
Happy to bet that any of the above teams will beat their previous seasons average if you like? Or happy to bet that our attendances dip by 500 or more.
Up for it? Open to anyone.
I don’t see any reason why you would refuse given the arguments you have made. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:13]
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| Attendances dipping on 12:14 - Aug 20 with 564 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 12:02 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not how I’m calculating it, it’s just how it is.
If you had any faith in what you were arguing then you would make that bet with me, with it being massively in your favour.
I will give you 500 leeway. So I am saying we will average 501+ less attendance than last season. What we have seen in the opening games this season is a trend that will continue.
Doesn’t matter about teams with similar attendances to us, it’s a % we will be looking at. Blackburn had a very average season last season, this year it looks like they will do extremely well and are playing some excellent football.
So the other bet is that I think our attendance will fall at a greater % than theirs.
Either one is perfectly fine with me, and should be perfectly fine with you of course.
Just let me know how much. |
You’re getting confused over what I’m arguing. I’m not disputing a team doing better than expected will pick up more fans, regardless of the cost of living. I’ve agreed with that point from the start.
I’ve also said I expect attendances to drop across the EFL and PL, particularly during the winter. Ours included, which is why I picked a team with a very similar attendance to us last season.
So I’m happy with Huddersfield. Our average attendance will be at least 65 higher than theirs over the course of the season.
You are of course, effectively betting that the team flounder under Martin and that affects attendances. External economic factors should affect most teams to a similar degree.
So Huddersfield. £100 to a charity of the others choice. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 12:19 - Aug 20 with 562 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 12:14 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
You’re getting confused over what I’m arguing. I’m not disputing a team doing better than expected will pick up more fans, regardless of the cost of living. I’ve agreed with that point from the start.
I’ve also said I expect attendances to drop across the EFL and PL, particularly during the winter. Ours included, which is why I picked a team with a very similar attendance to us last season.
So I’m happy with Huddersfield. Our average attendance will be at least 65 higher than theirs over the course of the season.
You are of course, effectively betting that the team flounder under Martin and that affects attendances. External economic factors should affect most teams to a similar degree.
So Huddersfield. £100 to a charity of the others choice. |
But why would I bet on Huddersfield? What do they have to do with anything? Their fans may well be equally disillusioned with what’s going on with them too.
My point is our attendances have and will continue to dip because the fans are losing faith with what we are doing.
I also said that if that wasn’t the case then the cost of living excuse wouldn’t come into it as the likes of Blackburn, Cardiff and Hull are showing.
You have said there is nothing to see here and the dips I have stated don’t mean anything.
So let’s bet that they do.
If Swansea’s attendances dip by 500 or less then you win, by more than 500 and I win. If I win then it shows that what Russell Martin is producing is not enough to get the public excited enough to come and back the side.
Again, the proof we have is that regardless of the cost of living, if the side is producing good results then attendance goes up regardless of that. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:20]
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| Attendances dipping on 12:30 - Aug 20 with 555 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 12:19 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
But why would I bet on Huddersfield? What do they have to do with anything? Their fans may well be equally disillusioned with what’s going on with them too.
My point is our attendances have and will continue to dip because the fans are losing faith with what we are doing.
I also said that if that wasn’t the case then the cost of living excuse wouldn’t come into it as the likes of Blackburn, Cardiff and Hull are showing.
You have said there is nothing to see here and the dips I have stated don’t mean anything.
So let’s bet that they do.
If Swansea’s attendances dip by 500 or less then you win, by more than 500 and I win. If I win then it shows that what Russell Martin is producing is not enough to get the public excited enough to come and back the side.
Again, the proof we have is that regardless of the cost of living, if the side is producing good results then attendance goes up regardless of that. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:20]
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I agree with your last paragraph. What no one will be able to prove is whether drops in attendance are down to football or economic reasons. I completely agree though, if we are up near the top of the table playing good football, people will make it more of a priority. They’ll sacrifice something else.
Huddersfield are an easy comparison. Similar attendances last season. Likely to be affected by a recession just as much as Swansea. You’re betting on our attendances dipping because of the football. It’s a reasonable comparison.
Let’s compromise and split the bet. £50 we average at least 65 more than Huddersfield, £50 our average attendance doesn’t drop from last season. No leeway on either.
Edit - league fixtures only, transfermarkt for both [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:32]
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| Attendances dipping on 12:44 - Aug 20 with 547 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 12:11 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
- Hull City (2nd). Last season (19th) averaged 12,324.
This season averaging 16,848.
We can do them if you like?
- Cardiff City (7th). Last season (18th) averaged 17,915.
This season averaging 19,431.
We can do them too?
That’s 3 of the top 6 who look like they will do far better this season than last and all thousands up on last seasons attendances despite the excuses people are making regarding cost of living etc.
Happy to bet that any of the above teams will beat their previous seasons average if you like? Or happy to bet that our attendances dip by 500 or more.
Up for it? Open to anyone.
I don’t see any reason why you would refuse given the arguments you have made. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:13]
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1. Blackburn +1611
2. Hull +4524
…………………………
3. (Relegated from Premier League)
4. Sheff Utd +357
5. (Relegated from Premier League)
6. Cardiff City +1516
………………………..
7. Millwall +1653
8. Preston +2518
9. Reading -330
10. Blackpool -940
11. (Promoted from League 1)
12. (Promoted from League 1)
13. (Relegated from Premier League)
14. Birmingham +786
15. Swansea -1026
16. Bristol City +5123
17. QPR -52
18. Stoke -20
19. (Promoted from League 1)
20. Middlesbrough +4613
21. Huddersfield +2138
………………………………
22. WBA +147
23. Luton (missing info)
24. Coventry (missing info)
So out of 16 teams that we have comparable data for 11 ncreased, many significantly.
Only 2 teams decreased by 400 or more, Swansea and Blackpool.
Swansea have had the only 4 figure dip from last season.
The excuses don’t stack up when compared to the rest of the country.
Fair? [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:52]
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| Attendances dipping on 13:06 - Aug 20 with 516 views | magicdaps10 |
| Attendances dipping on 12:30 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
I agree with your last paragraph. What no one will be able to prove is whether drops in attendance are down to football or economic reasons. I completely agree though, if we are up near the top of the table playing good football, people will make it more of a priority. They’ll sacrifice something else.
Huddersfield are an easy comparison. Similar attendances last season. Likely to be affected by a recession just as much as Swansea. You’re betting on our attendances dipping because of the football. It’s a reasonable comparison.
Let’s compromise and split the bet. £50 we average at least 65 more than Huddersfield, £50 our average attendance doesn’t drop from last season. No leeway on either.
Edit - league fixtures only, transfermarkt for both [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:32]
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Excellent posting 247.
Postinh with plenty of knowledge, understanding, open mindedness and not afraid to state that you agree with something.
ðŸ‘👠Standing out mate. |  |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:12 - Aug 20 with 502 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:06 - Aug 20 by magicdaps10 |
Excellent posting 247.
Postinh with plenty of knowledge, understanding, open mindedness and not afraid to state that you agree with something.
ðŸ‘👠Standing out mate. |
So why are Swansea the only team in the league to dip by over a thousand do you think? With the vast majority of teams increasing… | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:17 - Aug 20 with 490 views | onehunglow |
| Attendances dipping on 13:12 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
So why are Swansea the only team in the league to dip by over a thousand do you think? With the vast majority of teams increasing… |
Many of our fellow championship teams are in areas that are anything but wealthy too. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:17 - Aug 20 with 493 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 12:30 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
I agree with your last paragraph. What no one will be able to prove is whether drops in attendance are down to football or economic reasons. I completely agree though, if we are up near the top of the table playing good football, people will make it more of a priority. They’ll sacrifice something else.
Huddersfield are an easy comparison. Similar attendances last season. Likely to be affected by a recession just as much as Swansea. You’re betting on our attendances dipping because of the football. It’s a reasonable comparison.
Let’s compromise and split the bet. £50 we average at least 65 more than Huddersfield, £50 our average attendance doesn’t drop from last season. No leeway on either.
Edit - league fixtures only, transfermarkt for both [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 12:32]
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Why Huddersfield though? I’m confused by that. I have absolutely no idea what their fans think of the coming season or the manager, so have no idea whether they will have a higher or lower attendance. They don’t look very good this season languishing down the bottom of the table.
My whole point is that if the football was good and exciting then we wouldn’t be seeing this dip that we are - as I don’t believe it’s down to the economy (as Hull, Cardiff, Blackburn and most of the rest of the league are showing).
So to prove that I’m happy to either take us as an example to bet on… or a team that looks like they will improve significantly on last season.
If you think the economy is going to be the overriding factor behind attendances then I don’t see why you wouldn’t pick a team like Blackburn or even Cardiff who are in a similar geographical region.
Or of course, Swansea. They are the exact team we are discussing.
It’s almost like you agree with me 😉 | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:20 - Aug 20 with 491 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:17 - Aug 20 by onehunglow |
Many of our fellow championship teams are in areas that are anything but wealthy too. |
Absolutely.
The thread has suddenly gone deathly quiet as soon as the whole league have been compared and noted.
Only Swansea with 1000+ dip.
Only 3 teams decreasing by 100 or more, most increasing.
This economy excuse is bunkum. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:35 - Aug 20 with 463 views | Whiterockin |
I've just shown this thread to my mates in the pub. The unanimous response was " you actually converse with that idiot". |  | | |
| Attendances dipping on 13:36 - Aug 20 with 457 views | Boundy |
| Attendances dipping on 13:20 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely.
The thread has suddenly gone deathly quiet as soon as the whole league have been compared and noted.
Only Swansea with 1000+ dip.
Only 3 teams decreasing by 100 or more, most increasing.
This economy excuse is bunkum. |
I'm guessing it's gone deathly quiet due to the fact that posters have lives to lead , fair play though 6 pages of white noise , must be a record  | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:39 - Aug 20 with 450 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:35 - Aug 20 by Whiterockin |
I've just shown this thread to my mates in the pub. The unanimous response was " you actually converse with that idiot". |
You don’t have mates surely? 
File that under n for nonsense. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:40 - Aug 20 with 447 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:36 - Aug 20 by Boundy |
I'm guessing it's gone deathly quiet due to the fact that posters have lives to lead , fair play though 6 pages of white noise , must be a record |
It’s gone deathly quiet because all the excuses have suddenly fallen as flat as the managers tactics.
As we both know 😉 | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:41 - Aug 20 with 443 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 13:17 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why Huddersfield though? I’m confused by that. I have absolutely no idea what their fans think of the coming season or the manager, so have no idea whether they will have a higher or lower attendance. They don’t look very good this season languishing down the bottom of the table.
My whole point is that if the football was good and exciting then we wouldn’t be seeing this dip that we are - as I don’t believe it’s down to the economy (as Hull, Cardiff, Blackburn and most of the rest of the league are showing).
So to prove that I’m happy to either take us as an example to bet on… or a team that looks like they will improve significantly on last season.
If you think the economy is going to be the overriding factor behind attendances then I don’t see why you wouldn’t pick a team like Blackburn or even Cardiff who are in a similar geographical region.
Or of course, Swansea. They are the exact team we are discussing.
It’s almost like you agree with me 😉 |
I am agreeing with the gist of what you’re saying - economic factors aside, more people will watch a successful team, floating fans will drop off when the team is struggling. Anyone disagreeing with that is wrong.
I’m suggesting you’re sensationalising, by comparing our attendances against two teams who don’t take many fans away, to a whole season. Your argument is going to look stronger after todays match. Remains to be seen after we play Cardiff, Sunderland, Birmingham, Norwich and Bristol.
Last seasons comparisons with the same teams are irrelevant because of ‘different months, league positions, fan morale etc’, but it’s fine to include bigger or closer teams who fill the away end. Very easy to massage stats to suit your agenda. It’s plain to see.
It’s just another way to have a pop at the team and the manager.
You know all this anyway. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 13:43 - Aug 20 with 440 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:41 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
I am agreeing with the gist of what you’re saying - economic factors aside, more people will watch a successful team, floating fans will drop off when the team is struggling. Anyone disagreeing with that is wrong.
I’m suggesting you’re sensationalising, by comparing our attendances against two teams who don’t take many fans away, to a whole season. Your argument is going to look stronger after todays match. Remains to be seen after we play Cardiff, Sunderland, Birmingham, Norwich and Bristol.
Last seasons comparisons with the same teams are irrelevant because of ‘different months, league positions, fan morale etc’, but it’s fine to include bigger or closer teams who fill the away end. Very easy to massage stats to suit your agenda. It’s plain to see.
It’s just another way to have a pop at the team and the manager.
You know all this anyway. |
How am I sensationalising though? If you thought that then you would take my bet - but you obviously don’t want to, even giving you a 500 head start.
I’ve just been through every single team in the league and shown you. We are the only team with an attendance dipped by 1000+…. most have increased, significantly.
Why do you think that is? Why are we the only team in the league with such a drop?
It certainly is a reason to have a pop at the manager and the effect he is having on things. I agree. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 13:45]
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| Attendances dipping on 13:46 - Aug 20 with 429 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Attendances dipping on 13:43 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
How am I sensationalising though? If you thought that then you would take my bet - but you obviously don’t want to, even giving you a 500 head start.
I’ve just been through every single team in the league and shown you. We are the only team with an attendance dipped by 1000+…. most have increased, significantly.
Why do you think that is? Why are we the only team in the league with such a drop?
It certainly is a reason to have a pop at the manager and the effect he is having on things. I agree. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 13:45]
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You are Eric Olthwaite and I claim my £5. |  | | |
| Attendances dipping on 13:51 - Aug 20 with 422 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:46 - Aug 20 by Treforys_Jack |
You are Eric Olthwaite and I claim my £5. |
If he is correct and says facts that clearly others can’t accept, then aye. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:59 - Aug 20 with 410 views | onehunglow |
| Attendances dipping on 13:39 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
You don’t have mates surely?
File that under n for nonsense. |
People "show" posts ?
Ye Gods,Im as weird as they say then as I m more concerned with more seriou matters -like slagging of off Russy  | |
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| Attendances dipping on 14:01 - Aug 20 with 410 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 13:43 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
How am I sensationalising though? If you thought that then you would take my bet - but you obviously don’t want to, even giving you a 500 head start.
I’ve just been through every single team in the league and shown you. We are the only team with an attendance dipped by 1000+…. most have increased, significantly.
Why do you think that is? Why are we the only team in the league with such a drop?
It certainly is a reason to have a pop at the manager and the effect he is having on things. I agree. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 13:45]
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Because we’re a long way from Blackburn and Milwall. Today will drop further compared to the average over last season. It may not compared to Luton home last season, which is the comparison most people with no agenda would make. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 14:04 - Aug 20 with 407 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:59 - Aug 20 by onehunglow |
People "show" posts ?
Ye Gods,Im as weird as they say then as I m more concerned with more seriou matters -like slagging of off Russy |
If I was in a pub and my mate was showing me correct posts on a forum that he/she was annoyed with - I would probably sit him/her down and ask if he/she was okay, seriously assuming that he/she wasn’t of course. | |
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