| Tonight's AGM 18:13 - Dec 21 with 15382 views | 100notout |
Won't be able to make it tonight. Hopefully there will be plenty of questions asked from shareholders and informative answers provided and challenged where appropriate. |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 13:38 - Dec 22 with 3400 views | 442Dale |
| Tonight's AGM on 10:50 - Dec 22 by ChaffRAFC |
On the plaques, it's been asked a few times now about the memorial wall. I'm convinced this will be a better seller than a generic wall plaque, I'd certainly buy one and I'm certain others who have lost Dale fans would as well.
I've yet to receive a response on this since one of the directors basically said, despite having advertised them as coming soon, that it was dependent on how the wall plaques sell.
The added "donation" button you mention on the card machines is a good idea, but then we've nothing new to entice people into the club shop either. No third kit (would have bought one), no calendars (would have bought one) etc. And that's not a knock on Stuart either, I'm positive he's working with one hand tied behind his back.
The financial outlay by the directors is eye-watering, but we also have to be able to help ourselves when we're in need of cash and I don't think we do that sufficiently enough.
For the donation of shares, and I'm not a shareholder FWIW, I think I'd feel more comfortable in people donating them to the Trust as surely that allows for some form of supporter input should investors come knocking while also decreasing the number of individual shareholders. |
Whilst we obviously need an injection of finance, there’s an equal need for an injection of competence. |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 13:39 - Dec 22 with 3400 views | Dale_4_Life |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:27 - Dec 22 by judd |
Shares to go back on sale to fans
Accounts showing more or less break even for current financial year
Lawrance deal failed because he did not provide the funds, not because of social media scrutiny
Anyone looking to invest in Rochdale comes across on-line fan investigations in recent years and find that level of scrutiny off-putting. This is not a criticism, it is simply a statement of fact. Fans in the room advised the board such levels of digging would always happen
Evidence provided to the Chair that suggested Gary Strong was the victim of identity theft
Club simply has to talk to anyone showing interest in the club, but do carry out due diligence and challenge potential investors
Large number of shareholders does make it a difficult sell
American organisations looking to invest in English football typically looking to own 70% + of shares. This can be facilitated by either issuing more shares for them to buy, shareholders to give back to the club for them to sell, or to donate directly to investor
Currently in dispute over the pitch
Squad builder fund to be announced, working in conjunction with the Trust. Will be separate from the club account
General expressions of mutual appreciation and desire for unity |
Accounts showing more or less break even for current financial year
This is the biggest relief of all..
Something to build on. Ultimately we need more fans on a match day.. I see no reason why in 2-3 years time we can add 50% to the fan base and grow from a 2k home supporter attendance average to 3k.
It will take a strategic view though and bucket loads of effort. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 13:44 - Dec 22 with 3377 views | Dale_4_Life |
Thanks for posting this Judd. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 13:58 - Dec 22 with 3289 views | judd |
The last AGM I attended was the 2021 version.
Whenever a question was answered that night, I thought it lacked honesty, accountability and credibility.
Last night was totally different. There were a couple of excellent, heartfelt question sessions from TalkingSutty & Wozz, really hard hitting, which were dealt with in a passionate but, I genuinely think, honest manner.
I know Richard works in the industry, but talk about nuts and bolts on show. |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 14:04 - Dec 22 with 3261 views | kel |
| Tonight's AGM on 13:13 - Dec 22 by Brierls |
I know. But in the context of the situation we're in, and a challenging but honest AGM that went someway to aligning (I think) fans/shareholders and board room to the state of finances, I think a narrative/response of "the board think we're thick" is unnecessary.
If we get to a situation where a director saying they didn't read this messageboard (when they do) is in the top 100 issues the club and fanbase face, I'll be a very happy and relieved man. [Post edited 22 Dec 2023 13:14]
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I agree that’s it very minor, but still a bugbear. Bit like the line about re-engagement.
Couldn’t make last night and obviously trust you implicitly so that’s good to hear. Did they mention a more open approach to supporters that aren’t shareholders? |  | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 14:29 - Dec 22 with 3156 views | Dalenet |
| Tonight's AGM on 13:33 - Dec 22 by Dale_4_Life |
For the donation of shares, and I'm not a shareholder FWIW, I think I'd feel more comfortable in people donating them to the Trust as surely that allows for some form of supporter input should investors come knocking while also decreasing the number of individual shareholders.
At least offering to the Trust first at possibly a discounted rate.
In all of this I am more convinced the trust needs 51% (long way to go) and then we can cut cloth accordingly. |
If somebody is so desperate to own 70% of the shares to be able to take control of the club they will need to buy some people out - not just the directors. To suggest that people waive their rights for free so that somebody else takes control is a none starter surely. If a serious investor has a plan, and can convince the fans they are credible, many will sell their shares back to the investor at the price they paid I am sure | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 14:49 - Dec 22 with 3074 views | D_Alien |
| Tonight's AGM on 13:58 - Dec 22 by judd |
The last AGM I attended was the 2021 version.
Whenever a question was answered that night, I thought it lacked honesty, accountability and credibility.
Last night was totally different. There were a couple of excellent, heartfelt question sessions from TalkingSutty & Wozz, really hard hitting, which were dealt with in a passionate but, I genuinely think, honest manner.
I know Richard works in the industry, but talk about nuts and bolts on show. |
Yes, i'd agree with that, which is why i came away marginally more positive
I don't think there's any question that new leadership is required. The statement you've provided the link to provides the traditional season's wishes to fans from the club, which i'm guessing makes a "Chairman's message" redundant. That's not a slight on the Chairman at all, but i think the club have done the right thing by making it a general "good wishes" and it possibly comes as something of a relief to SG too
[Post edited 22 Dec 2023 14:51]
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| Tonight's AGM on 15:33 - Dec 22 with 2941 views | 442Dale |
The statement today will hopefully be a start to better engagement and capitalising on supporters input.
It was good to see an immediate reaction to the feedback last night. It might be Christmas, but there’s no reason these can’t be regular messages, with details of other schemes where supporters can play a part. Too many opportunities have been missed but maybe the AGM has seen a realisation at the club that fans won’t just accept what’s going on and actually want to move forward positively rather than with constant uncertainty.
If we can find a way to continue without investment in the short term, it can then be utilised as the basis for the future if required. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 15:50 - Dec 22 with 2867 views | Brierls |
| Tonight's AGM on 14:04 - Dec 22 by kel |
I agree that’s it very minor, but still a bugbear. Bit like the line about re-engagement.
Couldn’t make last night and obviously trust you implicitly so that’s good to hear. Did they mention a more open approach to supporters that aren’t shareholders? |
To be perfectly honest, no, I don’t think they did. There was a passionate plea for better communication, with a challenge back from the board on what can and can’t be said.
I think there has been a deafening silence from the board room, but then I try and cast my memory back to the Dunphy era and I don’t think there’s much of a difference in comms. Social Media has changed football and there is now a need for everybody to know everything. The club has been in serious trouble a number of times in the past but there wasn’t the same level of expectation or speculation.
I do think a ‘forum’ of sorts, every 2-3 months or so and open to all fans, would help bridge the gap between board and fanbase. Things always come across better in person than written statements etc. Last night was split into the formal AGM and a Q&A afterwards. I think the Q&A element could be repeated for the fanbase. My concern would be the empty head element having too many sherbets (or stronger), turning up and ruining it for everybody. |  | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 16:07 - Dec 22 with 2797 views | blackdogblue |
Did they say what the minimum number of shares would be? |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 16:44 - Dec 22 with 2664 views | kel |
| Tonight's AGM on 15:50 - Dec 22 by Brierls |
To be perfectly honest, no, I don’t think they did. There was a passionate plea for better communication, with a challenge back from the board on what can and can’t be said.
I think there has been a deafening silence from the board room, but then I try and cast my memory back to the Dunphy era and I don’t think there’s much of a difference in comms. Social Media has changed football and there is now a need for everybody to know everything. The club has been in serious trouble a number of times in the past but there wasn’t the same level of expectation or speculation.
I do think a ‘forum’ of sorts, every 2-3 months or so and open to all fans, would help bridge the gap between board and fanbase. Things always come across better in person than written statements etc. Last night was split into the formal AGM and a Q&A afterwards. I think the Q&A element could be repeated for the fanbase. My concern would be the empty head element having too many sherbets (or stronger), turning up and ruining it for everybody. |
Very much agree with your last sentence. I think it very much applies to that virgin on Twitter who recently claimed that the board “obeyed” the wishes of said empty heads to sell the club. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 17:15 - Dec 22 with 2533 views | judd |
| Tonight's AGM on 16:07 - Dec 22 by blackdogblue |
Did they say what the minimum number of shares would be? |
No, a.minimum wasn't specified and perhaps it should have been established.
The AGM note put out by the club doesn't mention it either.
I do think £50 should be the minimum, however painful to administer. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 17:22 - Dec 22 with 2513 views | Brierls |
| Tonight's AGM on 17:15 - Dec 22 by judd |
No, a.minimum wasn't specified and perhaps it should have been established.
The AGM note put out by the club doesn't mention it either.
I do think £50 should be the minimum, however painful to administer. |
Agreed. Something like 25 share minimum.
I do think this has to be relaunched properly too. There is no shame in saying cash flow at the club is directly impacted by share purchases and there is a very real need for cash to come into the club now. As things stand, we are a fan owned club. When times get tough, we have a collective responsibility to pull together. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 18:45 - Dec 22 with 2298 views | Rodingdale |
So three bits of good news in the last 24 hours:
1. We appear to be solvent in the short term.
2. We appear to be sufficiently solvent to have signed East up to an 18 month contract.
3. Today’s communication summarising the AGM and using the opportunity to do some marketing, great to see timely to the point communication that doesn’t have a go at fans and fosters working to a common aim.
The putting shares back on the market is also great news. I do wonder though whether this is the moment the Trust needs to grab with both hands to grow the shareholding and inch closer to fan owned. So what I’m saying is, rather than buying a nominal number of shares, donate the same sum to the Trust for the purpose of buying shares, to add to their material shareholding. And avoiding further diversifying the shareholding. I’d definitely buy into that in preference to buying another say 100 shares myself. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 18:56 - Dec 22 with 2258 views | D_Alien |
| Tonight's AGM on 18:45 - Dec 22 by Rodingdale |
So three bits of good news in the last 24 hours:
1. We appear to be solvent in the short term.
2. We appear to be sufficiently solvent to have signed East up to an 18 month contract.
3. Today’s communication summarising the AGM and using the opportunity to do some marketing, great to see timely to the point communication that doesn’t have a go at fans and fosters working to a common aim.
The putting shares back on the market is also great news. I do wonder though whether this is the moment the Trust needs to grab with both hands to grow the shareholding and inch closer to fan owned. So what I’m saying is, rather than buying a nominal number of shares, donate the same sum to the Trust for the purpose of buying shares, to add to their material shareholding. And avoiding further diversifying the shareholding. I’d definitely buy into that in preference to buying another say 100 shares myself. |
Agree with this. Contributing to increasing the shareholding by the Trust has a longer term benefit for the club as a whole. The danger with the Squad Builder initiative - whilst i would in different circumstances be supportive of it - is that it may potentially split any cash fans might have between two different objectives. That would apply even if fans were thinking of buying shares for themselves
The other advantage of donating to the Trust to buy shares is that the amounts can be anything, rather than a minimum of £50-100 | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 19:02 - Dec 22 with 2226 views | 442Dale |
| Tonight's AGM on 17:22 - Dec 22 by Brierls |
Agreed. Something like 25 share minimum.
I do think this has to be relaunched properly too. There is no shame in saying cash flow at the club is directly impacted by share purchases and there is a very real need for cash to come into the club now. As things stand, we are a fan owned club. When times get tough, we have a collective responsibility to pull together. |
Yep, really need that clear messaging now because it could lead to a positive response from many fans who maybe never considered the importance of owning a few shares.
If we’d done it a couple of weeks ago it would have made a great Christmas present opportunity - vouchers for 25 shares!
That said, people often get given cash for Christmas and end up spending it on bits and pieces, so why not emphasise the shares as an option? To do that, there has to be a lower minimum purchase than 100 (£235)
It would also be good for the club and the Trust to explore whether funds raised by this can be specifically allocated to something tangible rather than it disappearing into a black hole. Identify a cost that it can over so fans can get a better understanding of how the business operates and how they can assist.
Edit: the arguments about giving smaller amounts to the Trust to purchase shares is a valid one too. [Post edited 22 Dec 2023 19:08]
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| Tonight's AGM on 19:31 - Dec 22 with 2120 views | judd |
| Tonight's AGM on 19:02 - Dec 22 by 442Dale |
Yep, really need that clear messaging now because it could lead to a positive response from many fans who maybe never considered the importance of owning a few shares.
If we’d done it a couple of weeks ago it would have made a great Christmas present opportunity - vouchers for 25 shares!
That said, people often get given cash for Christmas and end up spending it on bits and pieces, so why not emphasise the shares as an option? To do that, there has to be a lower minimum purchase than 100 (£235)
It would also be good for the club and the Trust to explore whether funds raised by this can be specifically allocated to something tangible rather than it disappearing into a black hole. Identify a cost that it can over so fans can get a better understanding of how the business operates and how they can assist.
Edit: the arguments about giving smaller amounts to the Trust to purchase shares is a valid one too. [Post edited 22 Dec 2023 19:08]
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The money raised by share purchases will be used to help general cash flow.
The Trust has emailed members tonight to expand on the squad builder fund.
Several weeks ago the Trust wrote to all members who contributed on a monthly basis to advise that share purchases had stopped and direct debits cancelled. The Trust was buying shares in batches quarterly of an approximate value of £600, I think.
There will be a supporters meeting before a home game early in the new year to
discuss this. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 19:41 - Dec 22 with 2103 views | Rodingdale |
| Tonight's AGM on 18:56 - Dec 22 by D_Alien |
Agree with this. Contributing to increasing the shareholding by the Trust has a longer term benefit for the club as a whole. The danger with the Squad Builder initiative - whilst i would in different circumstances be supportive of it - is that it may potentially split any cash fans might have between two different objectives. That would apply even if fans were thinking of buying shares for themselves
The other advantage of donating to the Trust to buy shares is that the amounts can be anything, rather than a minimum of £50-100 |
Trust letter just dropped pushing the squad builder approach.
It wouldn’t be the route I’d follow. Increasing the shareholding of the Trust is the only way to safeguard the long term future of our club.
But if I were the Board, I’d want this to be the route the Trust follow, because it stalls the growing influence of the Trust and if take up is limited - enables a narrative around fans not putting their money where their mouths are.
Shame it’s been pushed by the Trust as a sole option for discussion, which is leading the conversation. Not very fan led. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 19:49 - Dec 22 with 2071 views | judd |
| Tonight's AGM on 19:41 - Dec 22 by Rodingdale |
Trust letter just dropped pushing the squad builder approach.
It wouldn’t be the route I’d follow. Increasing the shareholding of the Trust is the only way to safeguard the long term future of our club.
But if I were the Board, I’d want this to be the route the Trust follow, because it stalls the growing influence of the Trust and if take up is limited - enables a narrative around fans not putting their money where their mouths are.
Shame it’s been pushed by the Trust as a sole option for discussion, which is leading the conversation. Not very fan led. |
Look at the numbers the Trust share donations generated.
Look at the fact there is a planned FANS meeting to discuss options in the new yea
Attend the meeting , have your say and influence sufficient fans to choose your route. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 20:14 - Dec 22 with 2008 views | Rodingdale |
| Tonight's AGM on 19:49 - Dec 22 by judd |
Look at the numbers the Trust share donations generated.
Look at the fact there is a planned FANS meeting to discuss options in the new yea
Attend the meeting , have your say and influence sufficient fans to choose your route. |
The problem is, this is pre-ordained. The AGM followed in short order by the email from the Trust. Smells distinctly like a direction of travel which has agreed by the Trust Board and RAFC board, great choreography though I’ll give you that.
Trust meetings before matches are poorly attended, less than 10% of membership isn’t really very good is it. A ballot with well drafted options on how the Trust should fund would be a lot more engaged and democratic. I travel up from London on match days and have family commitments so attendance is not possible.
Take up of share contributions has no doubt trailed off, we headed off MH, so the then immediate issue went away, but the circumstances are now different and we have known financial problems, a rebooted fund the trust to buy shares, lifetime trust membership for those who do for example could drive up interest.
Nearly twelve months after the Chairman blindsided the Trust with the move away from fan owned model announcement - it seems the Trust Board and Chairman are now on the same page. But can you be sure, sure, that the Trust Board is acting in line with the wishes of its membership? | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 20:20 - Dec 22 with 1980 views | Kentish_Dale |
I quite like the Squad Builder idea, (have just bunged in a few quid as a one off), and be happy to contribute monthly when it's up and running properly.
If however down the line the Trust think it's best to use that fund to buy shares instead of to fund playing staff then all well and good. It's all gravy flowing in the right direction. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 22:45 - Dec 22 with 1660 views | Dalenet |
| Tonight's AGM on 20:14 - Dec 22 by Rodingdale |
The problem is, this is pre-ordained. The AGM followed in short order by the email from the Trust. Smells distinctly like a direction of travel which has agreed by the Trust Board and RAFC board, great choreography though I’ll give you that.
Trust meetings before matches are poorly attended, less than 10% of membership isn’t really very good is it. A ballot with well drafted options on how the Trust should fund would be a lot more engaged and democratic. I travel up from London on match days and have family commitments so attendance is not possible.
Take up of share contributions has no doubt trailed off, we headed off MH, so the then immediate issue went away, but the circumstances are now different and we have known financial problems, a rebooted fund the trust to buy shares, lifetime trust membership for those who do for example could drive up interest.
Nearly twelve months after the Chairman blindsided the Trust with the move away from fan owned model announcement - it seems the Trust Board and Chairman are now on the same page. But can you be sure, sure, that the Trust Board is acting in line with the wishes of its membership? |
What we can be sure of, is that the Board have not been successful in selling the club over the past 12 months. If we don't work together now, we might not have a club to follow. As much as Simon might want to walk away and get his cash back, he isn't stupid and recognises that we need to survive if he has any chance of getting his cash back. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 23:14 - Dec 22 with 1582 views | Shun |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:27 - Dec 22 by judd |
Shares to go back on sale to fans
Accounts showing more or less break even for current financial year
Lawrance deal failed because he did not provide the funds, not because of social media scrutiny
Anyone looking to invest in Rochdale comes across on-line fan investigations in recent years and find that level of scrutiny off-putting. This is not a criticism, it is simply a statement of fact. Fans in the room advised the board such levels of digging would always happen
Evidence provided to the Chair that suggested Gary Strong was the victim of identity theft
Club simply has to talk to anyone showing interest in the club, but do carry out due diligence and challenge potential investors
Large number of shareholders does make it a difficult sell
American organisations looking to invest in English football typically looking to own 70% + of shares. This can be facilitated by either issuing more shares for them to buy, shareholders to give back to the club for them to sell, or to donate directly to investor
Currently in dispute over the pitch
Squad builder fund to be announced, working in conjunction with the Trust. Will be separate from the club account
General expressions of mutual appreciation and desire for unity |
Could you elucidate the pitch point please, judd? Who are they in dispute with? |  | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 23:48 - Dec 22 with 1511 views | judd |
| Tonight's AGM on 23:14 - Dec 22 by Shun |
Could you elucidate the pitch point please, judd? Who are they in dispute with? |
Sorry, no. I ain't no grass. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 03:17 - Dec 23 with 1379 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tonight's AGM on 22:45 - Dec 22 by Dalenet |
What we can be sure of, is that the Board have not been successful in selling the club over the past 12 months. If we don't work together now, we might not have a club to follow. As much as Simon might want to walk away and get his cash back, he isn't stupid and recognises that we need to survive if he has any chance of getting his cash back. |
One big thing that i took out of the AGM is that the club is now breaking even financially, the Chairman stated that to the shareholders. Probably just me but I was under the impression we were losing about £1 milion every year. If you then factor in we own the stadium then that makes the club an attractive proposition for investors.There should be no talk about losing the club under those circumstances and at a time when we are supposedly desperate for investors why arent we shouting this positive from the rooftops instead of painting a picture of a club on the brink of extinction, or liquidation, whatever you want to call it? In fact i would suggest we are in far better financial health than a lot of lower league clubs. Rich in assets but cash poor was how those on the top table described the situation. Looking at that in isolation I'm not sure why there seems to be a narrative that we are on the brink because had it not been for the losses incurred prior to the current situation we would be a sustainable club and one that could be fan owned and fan run, which is what some of us want.
The outside investors would be able to do something that the fans themselves wont probably be able to do, invest money into the infrastructure and playing budget and give us a much greater chance of returning to the EFL. They would also hopefully be able to reimburse a chunk of the Chairman and Directors considerable outlay. So a constructive AGM but one with contradicting messages was how I would describe it, especially when it came to the financial health of the club and the forecast going forward. There is also no reason whatsoever to sell the club to people with the wrong credentials so it's important that we all continue to keep a eye on what is happening with the club and who is sniffing around. If we let one bad apple in we will end up with a orchard and lose the club. [Post edited 23 Dec 2023 6:50]
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