| I know things take time.... 11:23 - Jun 22 with 72362 views | heywooddale |
I know things take time....and I'm not even expect signings announcement or anything
New management are just bedding in and we've got to make sure we are getting the right people. That is the most important thing.
But at least announce friendly, a hint at the new shirt design or new pie filling we are considering or something.
My dopamine starved brain needs something/anything to engage with!
(This is an entirely unserious post that probably should be ignored)
[Post edited 22 Jun 11:25]
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| I know things take time.... on 18:15 - Jul 15 with 6496 views | D_Alien |
| I know things take time.... on 18:03 - Jul 15 by seasidedale |
Brian clough said a good goalkeeper is worth 20 points a season |
Well he did sign Les Green from us, possibly the best keeper i've seen at Dale
He played in the Derby side that Clough won the (now) Championship with, but Green was about 5' 9" and was discarded after promotion |  |
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| I know things take time.... on 14:59 - Jul 16 with 6056 views | samueloneils |
Whilst it is frustrating to see problems in recruitment, let`s not forget how essential the replacement programme is. If we are honest , the final 7 games of last season up to and including the final, although we only lost one of them, were not good displays. We got through with a lot of good luck and determination, but the shortcomings were showing through. The late goals risked the outcome but showed the character.
I for one was surprised at Jim`s retained list on the 18th May which showed his dissatisfaction with the squad strength especially with 6 midfield and wide players amongst the 10 dropped. I expected him to be more cautious about large-scale replacements, especially after he joined Stockport two weeks later. We owe him that.
It is essential we get the right recruits. At present it is a very inexperienced squad in terms of FL experience. Only Hendo, EEL, Hannant, Rodney and Hayes have 100 league starts, and some , like Beckwith and Pettit have never played FL football.
Patience is a virtue. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 15:03 - Jul 21 with 5166 views | jonahwhereru |
York had a deeper squad than us last season, and I see they have now recruited their 9th player of the summer. They clearly really mean business this coming season.
Even if you consider Edward’s to be a recruit after a season away, we are some way off the York number. We are playing our hand late, which may not be a bad thing and we could attract players who had aspirations of being picked up by L1 sides that didn’t materialise. However I am reminded of the Ian Hunter lyric “All of the good ones are taken”.
Don’t doubt there will have been plenty of calls from Spain to agents, and I hope some of those enquiries bear fruit soon. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 17:30 - Jul 21 with 4868 views | 442Dale |
| I know things take time.... on 15:03 - Jul 21 by jonahwhereru |
York had a deeper squad than us last season, and I see they have now recruited their 9th player of the summer. They clearly really mean business this coming season.
Even if you consider Edward’s to be a recruit after a season away, we are some way off the York number. We are playing our hand late, which may not be a bad thing and we could attract players who had aspirations of being picked up by L1 sides that didn’t materialise. However I am reminded of the Ian Hunter lyric “All of the good ones are taken”.
Don’t doubt there will have been plenty of calls from Spain to agents, and I hope some of those enquiries bear fruit soon. |
One look at the programme on the last day showed how we had far more players in our squad than York. They had a lot of quality of course.
Don’t profess to knowing exactly what their plan is and about everyone they’ve signed, but all of a sudden they seem to have a lot of players who will need managing.
That Ryan Fallowfield who was the scourge of social media in the aftermath of the title win signed a new deal despite being behind Jeff King at RWB (who himself had spent a great chunk of the season out on loan at Boreham Wood). Now they’ve signed the 32 year old Jack Hunt, another right back.
That all said, I expect York to have a good season. It’s that we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to them anymore. It was a one season thing in my opinion. |  |
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| I know things take time.... on 18:03 - Jul 21 with 4770 views | Dale_4_Life |
Just looking at where we are at (July 21st) we look squad numbers light IMO.
There could be a real flurry of activity of course in the next 7 /14 days and we are yet to see how good our new signings are and how they improve our starting eleven.
just looking at 14 released (4 to parent clubs) at last season end the current arrivals list is looking very thin.
I am sure IW his team and the board are fully aware and i am hopeful some more talented exciting arrivals are still to be announced.
Simply put - as we stand we are no where near covered for the demands of lg2. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 18:40 - Jul 21 with 4700 views | 442Dale |
| I know things take time.... on 18:03 - Jul 21 by Dale_4_Life |
Just looking at where we are at (July 21st) we look squad numbers light IMO.
There could be a real flurry of activity of course in the next 7 /14 days and we are yet to see how good our new signings are and how they improve our starting eleven.
just looking at 14 released (4 to parent clubs) at last season end the current arrivals list is looking very thin.
I am sure IW his team and the board are fully aware and i am hopeful some more talented exciting arrivals are still to be announced.
Simply put - as we stand we are no where near covered for the demands of lg2. |
Looking at the other thread, we have 1 GK, 7 defenders, 5 central midfielders and 5 forwards.
Presuming we keep one of the trialist keepers… Midfield is fine, maybe one more defender who can play left back and a forward who can play across the front line. Edwards may yet re-sign too.
Would we like more than that? Possibly. But we aren’t miles short. Plus we’ve got until the end of August to add players when we see how we start the season. Would expect a loanee around then once other clubs have started games too. | |
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| I know things take time.... on 20:28 - Jul 21 with 4494 views | jonahwhereru |
| I know things take time.... on 18:40 - Jul 21 by 442Dale |
Looking at the other thread, we have 1 GK, 7 defenders, 5 central midfielders and 5 forwards.
Presuming we keep one of the trialist keepers… Midfield is fine, maybe one more defender who can play left back and a forward who can play across the front line. Edwards may yet re-sign too.
Would we like more than that? Possibly. But we aren’t miles short. Plus we’ve got until the end of August to add players when we see how we start the season. Would expect a loanee around then once other clubs have started games too. |
I guess it’s all about expectations. Have said all along we need to sign 5 or 6 players with proven L2 / 1 experience who are shoe in’s to be starters. So far we have recruited two, Hayes and Maguire. It’s a long time until the January window if reinforcements are needed.
If you take Hendo and EEL out of the equation, the amount of EFL appearances this squad has under theirs belts is light indeed. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 21:06 - Jul 21 with 4406 views | TalkingSutty |
| I know things take time.... on 20:28 - Jul 21 by jonahwhereru |
I guess it’s all about expectations. Have said all along we need to sign 5 or 6 players with proven L2 / 1 experience who are shoe in’s to be starters. So far we have recruited two, Hayes and Maguire. It’s a long time until the January window if reinforcements are needed.
If you take Hendo and EEL out of the equation, the amount of EFL appearances this squad has under theirs belts is light indeed. |
Agree with a lot of that post, i was expecting a few more experienced players at this level to be in the building by now. There is still time for that to happen. A unproven manager at this level and a squad short of EFL quality would be a big risk after all the hard work it's taken to get out of the National League. Is the squad we have now stronger or weaker than the one we had last season? I'm hoping we will see at least three proven players come into the club before the first league game. |  | | |
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| I know things take time.... on 21:15 - Jul 21 with 4384 views | 442Dale |
| I know things take time.... on 20:28 - Jul 21 by jonahwhereru |
I guess it’s all about expectations. Have said all along we need to sign 5 or 6 players with proven L2 / 1 experience who are shoe in’s to be starters. So far we have recruited two, Hayes and Maguire. It’s a long time until the January window if reinforcements are needed.
If you take Hendo and EEL out of the equation, the amount of EFL appearances this squad has under theirs belts is light indeed. |
Hannant has over 200 league appearances, Rodney, Maguire and Francis have played a decent chunk of league football. TVOS can count them up!
The important thing is seeing how all the players adapt to the new structure in how we play I think. But yeah, we need 2/3 more. | |
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| I know things take time.... on 21:38 - Jul 21 with 4302 views | TalkingSutty |
| I know things take time.... on 21:15 - Jul 21 by 442Dale |
Hannant has over 200 league appearances, Rodney, Maguire and Francis have played a decent chunk of league football. TVOS can count them up!
The important thing is seeing how all the players adapt to the new structure in how we play I think. But yeah, we need 2/3 more. |
Most of those you named ended up regressing to the National League though for one reason or another. I think they are all capable of doing a job but the focus has to be on being better, season on season. I think Hayes is a upgrade, not sure about Maguire because i haven't seen him play. The other three signings have no experience at this level and might end up as squad players. We'll have to trust in the manager and he also stated we will be playing a style of football that is different to how most teams play in the league, that's going to be interesting to see. We couldn't have hand picked two better league fixtures to start the season, hopefully we hit the ground running. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 22:46 - Jul 21 with 4164 views | TVOS1907 |
| I know things take time.... on 21:15 - Jul 21 by 442Dale |
Hannant has over 200 league appearances, Rodney, Maguire and Francis have played a decent chunk of league football. TVOS can count them up!
The important thing is seeing how all the players adapt to the new structure in how we play I think. But yeah, we need 2/3 more. |
EFL Appearances (league games)
Ryan East 35
Ethan Ebanks-Landell 286
Harvey Gilmour 29
Emmanuel Dieseruvwe 108
Devante Rodney 115
Luke Hannant 213
Tobi Adebayo-Rowling 23
Ed Francis 71
Casey Pettit 0
Dan Moss 4
Corey Edwards 0
Bryant Bilongo 39
Will Jenkins 0
Sam Beckwith 0
Ian Henderson 650
Cian Hayes 135
Laurence Maguire 100
Kaiden Wilson 0
Nils Ramming (GK) 0
As an aside, Ollie Pearce of York has 0 EFL appearances, so it will be interesting to see how he makes the step up. |  |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| I know things take time.... on 22:55 - Jul 21 with 4150 views | TVOS1907 |
| I know things take time.... on 18:03 - Jul 21 by Dale_4_Life |
Just looking at where we are at (July 21st) we look squad numbers light IMO.
There could be a real flurry of activity of course in the next 7 /14 days and we are yet to see how good our new signings are and how they improve our starting eleven.
just looking at 14 released (4 to parent clubs) at last season end the current arrivals list is looking very thin.
I am sure IW his team and the board are fully aware and i am hopeful some more talented exciting arrivals are still to be announced.
Simply put - as we stand we are no where near covered for the demands of lg2. |
But, as has been explained before, we don't need to replace 14 players. Of those released, the following made minimal contributions last season:
Burger: 7 starts, plus 9 as a sub
Duku: 2+1
Gomez-Mancini: 0+3
Hosannah: 0+5
Humbles: 0+1
Myles: 1
Pritchard: 11+10
Smith: 6+16
Tutonda: 1+9
What we need in the squad is fewer players like the above.
While the Tranmere game is of course important (although Bradford away to follow, if we win at Tranmere, is very tough), I still think the focus is more likely to be on getting the squad almost complete by the time we play Newport, which is still 25 days away. [Post edited 21 Jul 23:46]
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| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| I know things take time.... on 23:00 - Jul 21 with 4139 views | TVOS1907 |
| I know things take time.... on 17:30 - Jul 21 by 442Dale |
One look at the programme on the last day showed how we had far more players in our squad than York. They had a lot of quality of course.
Don’t profess to knowing exactly what their plan is and about everyone they’ve signed, but all of a sudden they seem to have a lot of players who will need managing.
That Ryan Fallowfield who was the scourge of social media in the aftermath of the title win signed a new deal despite being behind Jeff King at RWB (who himself had spent a great chunk of the season out on loan at Boreham Wood). Now they’ve signed the 32 year old Jack Hunt, another right back.
That all said, I expect York to have a good season. It’s that we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to them anymore. It was a one season thing in my opinion. |
Let's also not forget York attract much larger crowds than we do, which impacts their budget and wage capability. | |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| I know things take time.... on 11:45 - Jul 22 with 3651 views | KnavesmireBob |
I'm guessing the one key remaining starter position to fill is someone to play opposite wing to Cian. Can see that coming soon and if it's a good 'un think we'll be pretty much ready to go, with a back up keeper and maybe cover for Mani to add as bench depth. Squad of around 20 to start with feels about right with lots of them able to play more than one position. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 12:18 - Jul 22 with 3568 views | D_Alien |
| I know things take time.... on 11:45 - Jul 22 by KnavesmireBob |
I'm guessing the one key remaining starter position to fill is someone to play opposite wing to Cian. Can see that coming soon and if it's a good 'un think we'll be pretty much ready to go, with a back up keeper and maybe cover for Mani to add as bench depth. Squad of around 20 to start with feels about right with lots of them able to play more than one position. |
Agree with this. There's a lot of talk about "squad numbers" but having players not even on the bench for periods of time makes management (especially new management) difficult, and wasteful of resources
IW will have his own ideas on this, and that's probably what we're seeing. I really don't think we'll be looking at more than one or two more incoming | |
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| I know things take time.... (n/t) on 13:59 - Jul 22 with 3342 views | seasidedale |
Must admit I am getting a bit concerned now, pre season doesn’t seem as planned and prepped as in previous seasons (only 4 games, late signings , thin squad, and the 2 loanees are going back to their clubs for a while as they let us have them early for the spainish trip , not deal when you thing we are only 10 days from our first competitive match [Post edited 22 Jul 14:04]
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| I know things take time.... (n/t) on 14:53 - Jul 22 with 3196 views | heywooddale |
| I know things take time.... (n/t) on 13:59 - Jul 22 by seasidedale |
Must admit I am getting a bit concerned now, pre season doesn’t seem as planned and prepped as in previous seasons (only 4 games, late signings , thin squad, and the 2 loanees are going back to their clubs for a while as they let us have them early for the spainish trip , not deal when you thing we are only 10 days from our first competitive match [Post edited 22 Jul 14:04]
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It's because it couldn't have been as planned or prepped as well other seasons I guess, being in the play offs delays are the transfer dealing by about three weeks till we knew what level of player we were after. Then we effectively don't have a manager for a couple of weeks, new manager is bound to change some of the planning. With regards to the 4 friendlies my assumption is the Tranmere game is being treated as taking the place of one of the friendlies just because of the compressed pre-season even though I assume it isn't being approached as a friendly. (Isn't it good that poor tired little Sunderland and any of the other 26 prem team playing in europe don't have to play an extra cup game) [Post edited 22 Jul 14:54]
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| I know things take time.... on 15:05 - Jul 22 with 3140 views | Newbury_Dale |
In an ideal world I'd like to see us picking up a central striker with an eye for goal and a bit of pace. Not easy to acquire at this level I concede, but it does feel like we're lacking that type of striker ATM. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 18:22 - Jul 22 with 2631 views | Beechball |
| I know things take time.... on 12:18 - Jul 22 by D_Alien |
Agree with this. There's a lot of talk about "squad numbers" but having players not even on the bench for periods of time makes management (especially new management) difficult, and wasteful of resources
IW will have his own ideas on this, and that's probably what we're seeing. I really don't think we'll be looking at more than one or two more incoming |
I guess you're assuming that all the current squad are capable of stepping up to L2. I think back to Abdulmalik roasting TAR , likewise Stones leaving EEL for dead and wonder if some of those 2 year contracts were handed out on the 3 year plan basis and the expectation we'd still be in the NL this season. You say one or two ( and could well be right); I'd say at least 3 or 4 are needed ( RB, LB, CH, S). | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 20:00 - Jul 22 with 2345 views | NorthernDale |
| I know things take time.... on 18:22 - Jul 22 by Beechball |
I guess you're assuming that all the current squad are capable of stepping up to L2. I think back to Abdulmalik roasting TAR , likewise Stones leaving EEL for dead and wonder if some of those 2 year contracts were handed out on the 3 year plan basis and the expectation we'd still be in the NL this season. You say one or two ( and could well be right); I'd say at least 3 or 4 are needed ( RB, LB, CH, S). |
Beechball, I have to agree with you, we need at least five players - RB, LB, CD, Winger and a Striker to cover all emergencies from loss of form to injuries, and as you point out players not being up to EFL standards. At the moment, we have nineteen players (including Edwards, Ramming and Wilson) - that is sixteen outfield players aged over 22 (we are allowed 22), three players aged under 22. So we can sign between now and the end of August, a total of six outfield players aged over 22, plus goalkeepers and players aged under 22, so there is room for him to recruit players.
I am older enough to remember over the years, when we had small squads and having to select players, who were not good enough, but we had no one else and we can all remember players who would easy make the worse Dale team selection. So having a bigger squad as risks, but also have positive options. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 20:27 - Jul 22 with 2270 views | 442Dale |
| I know things take time.... on 20:00 - Jul 22 by NorthernDale |
Beechball, I have to agree with you, we need at least five players - RB, LB, CD, Winger and a Striker to cover all emergencies from loss of form to injuries, and as you point out players not being up to EFL standards. At the moment, we have nineteen players (including Edwards, Ramming and Wilson) - that is sixteen outfield players aged over 22 (we are allowed 22), three players aged under 22. So we can sign between now and the end of August, a total of six outfield players aged over 22, plus goalkeepers and players aged under 22, so there is room for him to recruit players.
I am older enough to remember over the years, when we had small squads and having to select players, who were not good enough, but we had no one else and we can all remember players who would easy make the worse Dale team selection. So having a bigger squad as risks, but also have positive options. |
Trying to pinpoint the areas where it’s been said we need more players, would like to know the thinking behind needing another centre back.
We have EEL, Maguire, Beckwith and Wilson who would all hope to play there. Then there’s Dan Moss who has played the role himself.
What would be the benefit of bringing in someone else right now? Especially when we haven’t even seen Maguire and Wilson play much. | |
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| I know things take time.... on 20:32 - Jul 22 with 2256 views | D_Alien |
| I know things take time.... on 18:22 - Jul 22 by Beechball |
I guess you're assuming that all the current squad are capable of stepping up to L2. I think back to Abdulmalik roasting TAR , likewise Stones leaving EEL for dead and wonder if some of those 2 year contracts were handed out on the 3 year plan basis and the expectation we'd still be in the NL this season. You say one or two ( and could well be right); I'd say at least 3 or 4 are needed ( RB, LB, CH, S). |
As with most things in life, quality counts
If the right players aren't available, i'd really not want IW to be adding squad-fillers for the sake of it, like a demented Santa Claus trying to meet the demands of toddlers and their expectant stockings on Christmas morning | |
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| I know things take time.... on 20:49 - Jul 22 with 2184 views | TalkingSutty |
| I know things take time.... on 20:00 - Jul 22 by NorthernDale |
Beechball, I have to agree with you, we need at least five players - RB, LB, CD, Winger and a Striker to cover all emergencies from loss of form to injuries, and as you point out players not being up to EFL standards. At the moment, we have nineteen players (including Edwards, Ramming and Wilson) - that is sixteen outfield players aged over 22 (we are allowed 22), three players aged under 22. So we can sign between now and the end of August, a total of six outfield players aged over 22, plus goalkeepers and players aged under 22, so there is room for him to recruit players.
I am older enough to remember over the years, when we had small squads and having to select players, who were not good enough, but we had no one else and we can all remember players who would easy make the worse Dale team selection. So having a bigger squad as risks, but also have positive options. |
At the moment the squad we have now is weaker than the one we had last season in the National League, that's my opinion. Others might not agree. The way we played over the final third of last season leaves me a bit worried in respect of how they will perform in EFL2. It's not a given that we aren't going to struggle. There is time to strengthen though and if you are Ian Watson and his assistant you would know that assembling the strongest squad you can is vital, not only to give you the best chance of winning games but also to progress your career in the EFL. Before the end of August we will have played Tranmere, Newport and Crawley, all three just avoided the drop last year. Those games will give us a early indication of the strength of the starting eleven. I don't just think we need four or five more players, i think they need to be of a higher quality if possible than what we currently have. [Post edited 22 Jul 20:51]
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| I know things take time.... on 21:38 - Jul 22 with 2003 views | Beechball |
| I know things take time.... on 20:27 - Jul 22 by 442Dale |
Trying to pinpoint the areas where it’s been said we need more players, would like to know the thinking behind needing another centre back.
We have EEL, Maguire, Beckwith and Wilson who would all hope to play there. Then there’s Dan Moss who has played the role himself.
What would be the benefit of bringing in someone else right now? Especially when we haven’t even seen Maguire and Wilson play much. |
As a general rule you need plenty of centre back cover as they're more likely to pick up yellow cards and knocks than any other position.
As you say it's difficult to say anything about Maguire or Wilson ( except that not all young loaness have been as good as Perry: the lads from Arsenal and Derby were pants ).
But based on his abject performances in 22/23 and against Stones and Tamworth's number 9 last season, I don't think EEL is up to it and we should be looking to loan him out to an NL outfit for the remainder of his term. | | | |
| I know things take time.... on 21:44 - Jul 22 with 1994 views | D_Alien |
| I know things take time.... on 20:49 - Jul 22 by TalkingSutty |
At the moment the squad we have now is weaker than the one we had last season in the National League, that's my opinion. Others might not agree. The way we played over the final third of last season leaves me a bit worried in respect of how they will perform in EFL2. It's not a given that we aren't going to struggle. There is time to strengthen though and if you are Ian Watson and his assistant you would know that assembling the strongest squad you can is vital, not only to give you the best chance of winning games but also to progress your career in the EFL. Before the end of August we will have played Tranmere, Newport and Crawley, all three just avoided the drop last year. Those games will give us a early indication of the strength of the starting eleven. I don't just think we need four or five more players, i think they need to be of a higher quality if possible than what we currently have. [Post edited 22 Jul 20:51]
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But do you agree, that if players aren't currently available who're of higher quality than those we have, we absolutely shouldn't be filling gaps in the squad (as perceived by fans) with those who're available? There will be reasons they haven't been taken on already
Plus, if we do just bring in numbers for the sake of it, if and when players of the requisite quality become available, we'll have busted our playing budget and will have no wriggle room for their (no doubt) higher wage demands
[Post edited 22 Jul 21:46]
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