| Erm............... on 18:05 - Dec 14 with 2066 views | baz_qpr |
| Erm............... on 18:39 - Dec 13 by ted_hendrix |
I doubt the cost of building a 30k stadium would be much less than a 40k stadium.
Don't want to pull you up mate but the cost would be quite an eye opener, the cost per tonne for erecting steelwork has gone up quite substantially over the last 24 Months as has cladding and glazing.
Add to that a stadium isn't you're run of the mill building like say a factory therefore the steel would require more costly design etc blah blah.
I had the basic average cost of steel erected per tonne earlier this year but I've forgotten it. |
To quote an earlier post…
"Lucky some of owners own half the worlds steel production"
In all seriousness, this surely was what it was always all about long term for the Mittals and the Malaysians |  | |  |
| Erm............... on 18:21 - Dec 14 with 2041 views | nadera78 |
| Erm............... on 11:49 - Dec 14 by NW5Hoop |
It's not all about nostalgia, it's about what we believe the identity of our club to be.
TF's belief, and there are many here who are happy to support him in this, is that it is a cornerstone tenant in what is intended to be one of the biggest commercial redevelopment projects in London. QPR is his Trojan Horse, the entry route by which he and his backers make billions. QPR in itself, whether or not he has affection for the club, is fundamentally no more than a piece of a jigsaw. Its past identity is unimportant: what matters is that it forms part of a commercial empire that enables Air Asia/Tune Group/Mittals/What Have You to expand and consolidate. Its preferable that QPR do this by being a big bucks Premier League club, whether or not that aim is realistic in the long term, because having a League One club as a cornerstone tenant isn't that good for worldwide branding. In none of this vision is the long-term health of the club an end in itself; it is only ever an end to a means. That's just as cynical, in its own way, as Briatore and Ecclestone ever were.
Others believe QPR is fundamentally a small club, based in a community, with a loyal but limited fanbase. And that the long term health of the club is best served by accepting that it must be limited in size and ambtition. As Clive points out, you can have foreign billionaires taking over as many clubs as they like, but three clubs are still going to get relegated every season, and the ones that get relegated with foreign owners who are there for the money tend not to have the brightest futures ahead of them. Whereas if you cut your cloth to suit your means, you're more able to cope with those vicissitudes. And that, actually, going to the football is about more than how much money the club has accrued at the end of the season — it's about shared memories and experiences, especially when you're used to supporting a club that rarely if ever wins anything.
Neither view is right or wring; they're just views. I take the latter, but I don't blame anyone for thinking they'd like to see QPR reaching for the stars. But those who aren't all that delighted about the plans aren't Luddites: they're people for whom QPR is part of their life: it's not just QPR that's changing, it's their lives.
The final thing I'd say is that I'm always amazed at the level of adoration of TF (and the way anyone who doesn't share that adoration is attacked on here). If football teaches you one single thing, it is surely: All chairmen and owners are in it for what they can get out of it for themselves. I don't think he's any different in that, and these plans show it. He's just better than most at making fans like him. |
Superb post. Agree with every word of it. |  | | |
| Erm............... on 18:31 - Dec 14 with 2026 views | stansleftfoot |
Amit's been hoovering up cement manufacturing capacity for some time now. The recession hit prices so severely that people with cash have been buying and storing steel to benefit from increased prices when the euro recession turns a corner and building starts, the same applied to bankrupt cement manufacturing plants...Amit got on the case!
There's latent demand and the big boys are ready to provide when the time comes at the right price.
It would be astonishing to find ourselves in a new stadium having been promoted, it would also be interesting to learn what Loftus Road was worth as a building site rather than a run-down football stadium, £20 Million, I think not!
My support for this Club has never wavered from 1968, where its located and how well its done or is doing will make no difference to my loyalty...why should it...I'm a fan and a supporter....COYRrrrrs. | | | |
| Erm............... on 18:41 - Dec 14 with 2020 views | QPRDave |
| Erm............... on 00:41 - Dec 14 by Brightonhoop |
Dave, are you Korean? Just asking!
However exciting a prospect it is, albeit unrealised, a new stadium could be, your lack of empathy at the loss of our spiritual home speaks volumes. QPR will NEVER be the same again. Enjoy the remainder of the ride. The best football ground by a country mile in England just took a life ending knife. |
Yes I am.....Now ...you have probrem wif Koreeens? ... |  | | |
| Erm............... on 18:55 - Dec 14 with 2014 views | VancouverHoop |
Nothing stays the same. We might wish it would but it doesn’t. It can’t.
I moved to Stevenage when I was seven years old, one of the earliest residents of the country’s first new town. They resentment of the locals, and the excitement of the newcomers, was obvious even to someone my age. Similar feelings when I was at college in Leicester, living in Highfields during the first wave of Asian immigration. On moving to Vancouver I lived in Kitsilano (known locally as Haight-Asbury North) and, over time, watched as the counter-culture types living in basements, became yuppies, bought their houses and – in their 50s – later sold them to offshore buyers for $1 million plus.
When I began watching Rangers in the late 60s I lived on the corner of Ladbroke Road at Notting Hill Gate. It was hippie-bedsit-land. The other side of Pembridge Road, north of Westbourne Grove, was Jamaica. It’s certainly not like that now. On nice days I walked to LR, across Ladbroke Grove thorough desolate and broken buildings. There’re gone, and surely no one would wish their return. Unless they inhabit a cave, everyone who’s alive today must have similar experiences.
I agree, QPR is a community club, but that community has changed, and continues to change. Attempting to preserve some version of it that no longer exists is not only futile, it’s impossible. QPR will change, but how it does so is something we should certainly have a say in. TF agrees – I think he even went so far as to say “our fans will design the new stadium.” We need to hold his feet to fire on this, and it shouldn’t be just lip service. There are certain things there’s genuine consensus on, such as the closeness of crowd to the playing area, and a proper “home end,” that shouldn’t be subject to compromise.
The new digs could be a disaster, or they could be great, but if we, who make up the QPR community, do nothing then we share the blame if it all goes pear-shaped. [Post edited 14 Dec 2013 18:58]
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| Erm............... on 00:53 - Dec 15 with 1893 views | QPRDave |
Anyone seen this?
Data was collected for 21 clubs who have had new stadia within the last 30 years. On average they enjoyed rises in attendance of 41.1% in the first season using the new stadium compared to the season before.
http://footballplc.weebly.com/the-new-stadium-effect.html | | | |
| Erm............... on 02:08 - Dec 15 with 1851 views | Northernr |
| Erm............... on 18:04 - Dec 14 by baz_qpr |
You won't need it 4G is faster and has bigger bandwidth and we will all be 4g by then |
Or we could talk to each other. |  | | |
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| Erm............... on 02:11 - Dec 15 with 1848 views | PunteR |
We were top London club once. Football has moved on since then. We've spent the last 15 years trying to rekindle the glory days. We have a great opportunity to catch up with the pack.
QPR is different for everyone depending on what era they started. For my 12 year old lad,QPR were a crap club non of his mates at school heard of.Then we got promoted and we were the crap club that got beat every week. I take him to Loftus road and tell him that even though we dont win much we are a good football club, and winning is not everything. I like to feel it keeps him a bit more grounded. All my kids love QPR,they're the next generation. I would like to think that in 30 years time they are still going to QPR, but not in some dilapidated stadium playing Hampton and Richmond....or Brentford(who also seem to be moving with the times). I am gutted moving shepherds bush and Loftus road as its been my whole QPR life. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Erm............... on 04:31 - Dec 15 with 1824 views | Bedford_R |
I go to QPR to watch QPR. Not sit in aisle seat with my legs out in the aisle because it is physically impossible for me to sit in my seat with my legs facing forward. Not to watch the football with a post blocking my view of part of the centre circle. Not to eat the crappy food or queue for ages for a beer.
I go to QPR to watch my team play football. Loftus Road inhibits my enjoyment of that experience somewhat. I will miss the people who I have sat around for the last 10 years and that is all that I will miss.
Bring it on.... |  |
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| Erm............... on 08:49 - Dec 15 with 1777 views | Pablo_Hoopsta |
Well well well, what a turn up and something positive, very positive indeed.
As much as I love Loftus Road, and I do - I caught the ball at my first game, I have fond memories of Kevin Gallen pushing me face first into the mud as kid in Acton Park telling me I'd never be good enough to play for QPR (he was right!) but that was ok because on the weekend I'd be standing in the Lower Loft screaming his name! I remember that first goal that went in and I was lifted by the crowd and must've moved forwards ten feet without my own feet touching the ground! I have my little certificate sitting in frame to attest to my being at the last ever standing game. I've sat in every stand and, although I barely see them anymore, I have some great friends I've met at QPR. But as much as I love Loftus Road, things change and if you don't change with them the only aura fire fact is it'll be you who is left behind.
So we have the prospect of a new stadium, another new location albeit not that far considering the distances already travelled by so many, and this stadium should be relatively future proof and will be purpose built, not having seats shoe horned in and reducing capacity or the match day experience. Given the time frame maybe we can be one of the ones to have a terrace again? Something to think about at least and I'm sure it'll be raised in the fans forums that will doubtless take place, certainly the noises from above on that point are positive.
My thoughts at that I'll be sad to leave LR but I hope to get a few more momentous from LR, I already have a few and a seat with my name on it would be a good addition! I hope the new ground is one that we like going to, close to the pitch as everyone has said, keep the corners filled in with fans so it's curved at the edges, that'll keep the noise in and help with the atmosphere.
We need to see some architectural drawings before we think too much about what we're going to get next but I hope if there are multiple tiers like the artists impression then the first dibs on the ground tier goes to existing season ticket holders and members, leaving the upper tiers for JCLs, tourists and cheap ticket buyers.
Other events that may be held three don't bother me in the least, imagine if the revenue was such that it actually helped the club, if they can do that and not ruin the pitch we'll be laughing.
I wonder how connected this whole thing is? Ae the Mittals involved in the regeneration looking to supply the materials and therefore able to gain so much profit that really the ground is built for nothing and we end up very well off? Will it be our ground or one we rent? What will happen to LR? Cn we remain landlords of that land, whatever happens to it, and therefore ensure a stead stream of revenue from another site?
Lots of questions and long time before even the planning permission is expected to go through, but I don't think people should be top negative about things, at least not at this stage. Lts not call it a soulless place or a hell hole like some have already, at least see the plans before you cast your club aside.
Whatever else happens, players and managers come and go, stadia are used, loved, left and forgotten, but we the fans remain, we few that have remained while we've elevate ourselves up and down the divisions this last few years, that's what's important. |  | | |
| Erm............... on 09:34 - Dec 15 with 1753 views | peejaybee |
| Erm............... on 08:49 - Dec 15 by Pablo_Hoopsta |
Well well well, what a turn up and something positive, very positive indeed.
As much as I love Loftus Road, and I do - I caught the ball at my first game, I have fond memories of Kevin Gallen pushing me face first into the mud as kid in Acton Park telling me I'd never be good enough to play for QPR (he was right!) but that was ok because on the weekend I'd be standing in the Lower Loft screaming his name! I remember that first goal that went in and I was lifted by the crowd and must've moved forwards ten feet without my own feet touching the ground! I have my little certificate sitting in frame to attest to my being at the last ever standing game. I've sat in every stand and, although I barely see them anymore, I have some great friends I've met at QPR. But as much as I love Loftus Road, things change and if you don't change with them the only aura fire fact is it'll be you who is left behind.
So we have the prospect of a new stadium, another new location albeit not that far considering the distances already travelled by so many, and this stadium should be relatively future proof and will be purpose built, not having seats shoe horned in and reducing capacity or the match day experience. Given the time frame maybe we can be one of the ones to have a terrace again? Something to think about at least and I'm sure it'll be raised in the fans forums that will doubtless take place, certainly the noises from above on that point are positive.
My thoughts at that I'll be sad to leave LR but I hope to get a few more momentous from LR, I already have a few and a seat with my name on it would be a good addition! I hope the new ground is one that we like going to, close to the pitch as everyone has said, keep the corners filled in with fans so it's curved at the edges, that'll keep the noise in and help with the atmosphere.
We need to see some architectural drawings before we think too much about what we're going to get next but I hope if there are multiple tiers like the artists impression then the first dibs on the ground tier goes to existing season ticket holders and members, leaving the upper tiers for JCLs, tourists and cheap ticket buyers.
Other events that may be held three don't bother me in the least, imagine if the revenue was such that it actually helped the club, if they can do that and not ruin the pitch we'll be laughing.
I wonder how connected this whole thing is? Ae the Mittals involved in the regeneration looking to supply the materials and therefore able to gain so much profit that really the ground is built for nothing and we end up very well off? Will it be our ground or one we rent? What will happen to LR? Cn we remain landlords of that land, whatever happens to it, and therefore ensure a stead stream of revenue from another site?
Lots of questions and long time before even the planning permission is expected to go through, but I don't think people should be top negative about things, at least not at this stage. Lts not call it a soulless place or a hell hole like some have already, at least see the plans before you cast your club aside.
Whatever else happens, players and managers come and go, stadia are used, loved, left and forgotten, but we the fans remain, we few that have remained while we've elevate ourselves up and down the divisions this last few years, that's what's important. |
With you all the way on that. |  |
| If at first you dont succeed, pack up and f**k off home. |
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| Erm............... on 09:36 - Dec 15 with 1751 views | Bedford_R |
| Erm............... on 08:49 - Dec 15 by Pablo_Hoopsta |
Well well well, what a turn up and something positive, very positive indeed.
As much as I love Loftus Road, and I do - I caught the ball at my first game, I have fond memories of Kevin Gallen pushing me face first into the mud as kid in Acton Park telling me I'd never be good enough to play for QPR (he was right!) but that was ok because on the weekend I'd be standing in the Lower Loft screaming his name! I remember that first goal that went in and I was lifted by the crowd and must've moved forwards ten feet without my own feet touching the ground! I have my little certificate sitting in frame to attest to my being at the last ever standing game. I've sat in every stand and, although I barely see them anymore, I have some great friends I've met at QPR. But as much as I love Loftus Road, things change and if you don't change with them the only aura fire fact is it'll be you who is left behind.
So we have the prospect of a new stadium, another new location albeit not that far considering the distances already travelled by so many, and this stadium should be relatively future proof and will be purpose built, not having seats shoe horned in and reducing capacity or the match day experience. Given the time frame maybe we can be one of the ones to have a terrace again? Something to think about at least and I'm sure it'll be raised in the fans forums that will doubtless take place, certainly the noises from above on that point are positive.
My thoughts at that I'll be sad to leave LR but I hope to get a few more momentous from LR, I already have a few and a seat with my name on it would be a good addition! I hope the new ground is one that we like going to, close to the pitch as everyone has said, keep the corners filled in with fans so it's curved at the edges, that'll keep the noise in and help with the atmosphere.
We need to see some architectural drawings before we think too much about what we're going to get next but I hope if there are multiple tiers like the artists impression then the first dibs on the ground tier goes to existing season ticket holders and members, leaving the upper tiers for JCLs, tourists and cheap ticket buyers.
Other events that may be held three don't bother me in the least, imagine if the revenue was such that it actually helped the club, if they can do that and not ruin the pitch we'll be laughing.
I wonder how connected this whole thing is? Ae the Mittals involved in the regeneration looking to supply the materials and therefore able to gain so much profit that really the ground is built for nothing and we end up very well off? Will it be our ground or one we rent? What will happen to LR? Cn we remain landlords of that land, whatever happens to it, and therefore ensure a stead stream of revenue from another site?
Lots of questions and long time before even the planning permission is expected to go through, but I don't think people should be top negative about things, at least not at this stage. Lts not call it a soulless place or a hell hole like some have already, at least see the plans before you cast your club aside.
Whatever else happens, players and managers come and go, stadia are used, loved, left and forgotten, but we the fans remain, we few that have remained while we've elevate ourselves up and down the divisions this last few years, that's what's important. |
Well said. And one other thing I will not miss from Loftus Road is my seat with my name on it as I intend to take that with me on our last day there.... | |
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| Erm............... on 10:06 - Dec 15 with 1720 views | Jamie |
| Erm............... on 02:08 - Dec 15 by Northernr |
Or we could talk to each other. |
Or even to the voices.. | | | |
| Erm............... on 15:14 - Dec 15 with 1661 views | MedwayR |
We both had it spot on, amazing what can be found on t'internet |  |
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| Erm............... on 15:21 - Dec 15 with 1652 views | hoopstilidie |
| Erm............... on 15:14 - Dec 15 by MedwayR |
We both had it spot on, amazing what can be found on t'internet |
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| Erm............... on 16:33 - Dec 15 with 1601 views | E17hoop |
I can see a lot of what Clive is making reference to and, to a point, agree.
When we were promoted to the Prem the prices went up so much that I couldn't renew for my youngest and I.
Clive said:
"Watching a monied QPR, in a television dominated Premier League, in a concert venue, in Old Oak Common, surrounded by new build pubs and crappy food places - sooner or later (sooner) you have to ask yourself why you go to the football any more. "
and for the first 2 points it was true. We were monied and a poor watch. I know how poor as every game was available online or on a Super Saturday/Sunday (delete as appropriate) with pundits across the world discussing the intimate details of when we'd be relegated - more after the break.
In amongst all the punditry, super slo-mo and in play betting brought to you by Paddy Coralbrokes Hill, a football match would break out and it felt as remote as the moon. I recognised the shirt and the stands of LR but I didn't feel any love for the team playing, probably because we've since found out they didn't have much love for the club.
I went a few weeks ago and enjoyed the occasion; the occasion being the return to LR more than the game itself. I'll be back there again on Sunday as it's my son's birthday and a treat for him. I'd like to spend the time remembering the good times at the ground. I'd like to be able to bottle that atmosphere and transfer it to a new stadium but it can't happen.
More regrettably, it won't happen because the powers that be didn't show any interest in my opinion. If they did:
- the CEO wouldn't be hiding his 'fans input is key' speech on video behind a paywall
- they'd have a loyalty scheme that rewarded people for following the Rs for 10, 20, 30, 40 years - not just those that did this season's away trips
- they'd be contacting the fans who don't come any more to find out why, rather than trying to chase new markets.
Football clubs aren't like SIM cards; people won't buy more than one so make the most of the people who have supported you before.
Clive says you ask yourself why you go to football; ultimately because we are QPR, we're St Jude's, we follow the patron saint of lost causes. Stick it in a corporate stadium that's half full and see how long people keep their love for QPR. |  |
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| Erm............... on 17:01 - Dec 15 with 1553 views | QPRDave |
| Erm............... on 16:33 - Dec 15 by E17hoop |
I can see a lot of what Clive is making reference to and, to a point, agree.
When we were promoted to the Prem the prices went up so much that I couldn't renew for my youngest and I.
Clive said:
"Watching a monied QPR, in a television dominated Premier League, in a concert venue, in Old Oak Common, surrounded by new build pubs and crappy food places - sooner or later (sooner) you have to ask yourself why you go to the football any more. "
and for the first 2 points it was true. We were monied and a poor watch. I know how poor as every game was available online or on a Super Saturday/Sunday (delete as appropriate) with pundits across the world discussing the intimate details of when we'd be relegated - more after the break.
In amongst all the punditry, super slo-mo and in play betting brought to you by Paddy Coralbrokes Hill, a football match would break out and it felt as remote as the moon. I recognised the shirt and the stands of LR but I didn't feel any love for the team playing, probably because we've since found out they didn't have much love for the club.
I went a few weeks ago and enjoyed the occasion; the occasion being the return to LR more than the game itself. I'll be back there again on Sunday as it's my son's birthday and a treat for him. I'd like to spend the time remembering the good times at the ground. I'd like to be able to bottle that atmosphere and transfer it to a new stadium but it can't happen.
More regrettably, it won't happen because the powers that be didn't show any interest in my opinion. If they did:
- the CEO wouldn't be hiding his 'fans input is key' speech on video behind a paywall
- they'd have a loyalty scheme that rewarded people for following the Rs for 10, 20, 30, 40 years - not just those that did this season's away trips
- they'd be contacting the fans who don't come any more to find out why, rather than trying to chase new markets.
Football clubs aren't like SIM cards; people won't buy more than one so make the most of the people who have supported you before.
Clive says you ask yourself why you go to football; ultimately because we are QPR, we're St Jude's, we follow the patron saint of lost causes. Stick it in a corporate stadium that's half full and see how long people keep their love for QPR. |
You sound like Flavio ....keep it small boutique just for the chosen few.
QPR can and should be open to new markets....it can't remain exclusive to just you and clive......sorry to break the bad news | | | |
| Erm............... on 17:15 - Dec 15 with 1636 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Erm............... on 17:01 - Dec 15 by QPRDave |
You sound like Flavio ....keep it small boutique just for the chosen few.
QPR can and should be open to new markets....it can't remain exclusive to just you and clive......sorry to break the bad news |
It'll be pretty damn exclusive on Sunday though, when he takes his son for his birthday treat.. |  | | |
| Erm............... on 17:18 - Dec 15 with 1627 views | QPRDave |
 ...yeah i spose it will!!! | | | |
| Erm............... on 17:38 - Dec 15 with 1584 views | stansleftfoot |
www.populous.com
Kyle Field is interesting as they want the fans to be close to the pitch and the acoustics to be designed so that the supporters become the 12th man.
The only thing holding most Architectural Design projects/events is money, the investors and the ambition of The Mittals, Fernandes and his partners seems to have few limits.
Given QPR only appear at home between 20 and 30 times a year, there are some serious considerations to be made for New Queens Park and Old Oak....very exciting to think that QPR will sit at the heart of Londons single biggest development....Docklands, Battersea, all smaller...... | | | |
| Erm............... on 17:42 - Dec 15 with 1567 views | paulparker |
| Erm............... on 17:01 - Dec 15 by QPRDave |
You sound like Flavio ....keep it small boutique just for the chosen few.
QPR can and should be open to new markets....it can't remain exclusive to just you and clive......sorry to break the bad news |
and where does he say its exclusive just for a few
the blokes a loyal fan like the rest of us so comparing to Fattyo is out of order
I don't give a s&it for the prem nor do I care for a 40k stadium with a new "canary wharf" and penthouse flats surrounding us
I just wonder how many who are licking TF arse now and saying this is for the best because I can stretch my feet out a bit more will be moaning and groaning in the 2020 season because the atmosphere is crap and saying its not like the old place , loads I bet |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Erm............... on 17:59 - Dec 15 with 1541 views | ShotKneesHoop |
| Erm............... on 17:42 - Dec 15 by paulparker |
and where does he say its exclusive just for a few
the blokes a loyal fan like the rest of us so comparing to Fattyo is out of order
I don't give a s&it for the prem nor do I care for a 40k stadium with a new "canary wharf" and penthouse flats surrounding us
I just wonder how many who are licking TF arse now and saying this is for the best because I can stretch my feet out a bit more will be moaning and groaning in the 2020 season because the atmosphere is crap and saying its not like the old place , loads I bet |
Those seats are one of the reasons for my avatar name. |  |
| Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me! |
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| Erm............... on 18:00 - Dec 15 with 1539 views | QPRDave |
| Erm............... on 17:42 - Dec 15 by paulparker |
and where does he say its exclusive just for a few
the blokes a loyal fan like the rest of us so comparing to Fattyo is out of order
I don't give a s&it for the prem nor do I care for a 40k stadium with a new "canary wharf" and penthouse flats surrounding us
I just wonder how many who are licking TF arse now and saying this is for the best because I can stretch my feet out a bit more will be moaning and groaning in the 2020 season because the atmosphere is crap and saying its not like the old place , loads I bet |
well to me he's saying we should just keep those that are fans now happy and not trying to build the fanbase, even more. I've seen alot of this i'm a better fan than you c**p .
So you don't give a s**t for a new ground that will build the club into a viable business?
You sure you care for the club at all?....So those that agree with Tony's plans and are looking forward with excitement are a*se lickers, while you a moaning t**t is a propa fan ....how dare anyone disagree with you eh? | | | |
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