| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:06 - Feb 9 with 1929 views | THEBUSH |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 10:43 - Feb 9 by Clive_Anderson |
"The claim that "The UK would continue to access the European markets so being out of the EU won't make any difference." is not a statement of fact but a judgement call. My judgement, diametrically opposite to yours, is that the UK's access to European markets is likely to be seriously compromised."
One of the biggest criticisms of the EU is that it is inward looking and makes trading with the rest of the world more difficult. The fact that the most pro-EU people themselves are saying that if the UK leaves the EU then we won't be able to trade freely with the EU any more, despite it being absolutely in everyone's best interests to do so tells you everything you need to know about the organisation.
Seriously you're arguing to stay in an organisation that you think will happily cut it's own nose off and ruin their own economies just to spite non-members. Just think about that for a minute. No wonder the countries in the EU have done so badly in the last decade overall.
There has been massive growth in India and China over the past 20 years, two countries that contain around a third of the world's population. The UK trade with them is minimal thanks to the EU, the untapped potential in signing closer agreements with them is absolutely enormous. |
Good luck with that, I'd prefer to stay and work in Europe, India and China ain't in my plans  |  | |  |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:12 - Feb 9 with 1914 views | Clive_Anderson |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:06 - Feb 9 by THEBUSH |
Good luck with that, I'd prefer to stay and work in Europe, India and China ain't in my plans |
You do realise that it is possible to work in Europe without the EU don't you? eg. Switzerland which is in the Shengen zone.
I'm amazed you don't know this already. |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:15 - Feb 9 with 1911 views | THEBUSH |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:12 - Feb 9 by Clive_Anderson |
You do realise that it is possible to work in Europe without the EU don't you? eg. Switzerland which is in the Shengen zone.
I'm amazed you don't know this already. |
There's a lot I don't know, like you  | | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:55 - Feb 9 with 1870 views | R_from_afar |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:25 - Feb 8 by Clive_Anderson |
Japanese government: “More than 1,300 Japanese companies have invested in the UK, as part of the single market of the EU, and have created 130,000 jobs, more than anywhere else in Europe.”
The UK would continue to access the European markets so being out of the EU won't make any difference.
If the Japanese are investing in the UK more than anywhere else in the EU then it can't be all down to the EU can it. |
I don't have access to the report itself so I can't give you much more background on why the Japanese have been investing in the UK but the Guardian article does also contain this relevant section:
"The Japanese government told the review that 1,300 Japanese firms had invested in the UK because it was member of the EU single market. It added: “This fact demonstrates that the advantage of the UK as a gateway to the European market has attracted Japanese investment. The government of Japan expects the UK to maintain this favourable role.”"
As for the UK continuing to have access to European markets, well, I am sure that is true but we will still be subject to the same standards (e.g. for safety, emissions etc), only we will no longer be able to influence them.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:09 - Feb 9 with 1845 views | jamois |
I've decided to add my insightful tuppence worth to the debate.
None of it matters. |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:25 - Feb 9 with 1822 views | Clive_Anderson |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:55 - Feb 9 by R_from_afar |
I don't have access to the report itself so I can't give you much more background on why the Japanese have been investing in the UK but the Guardian article does also contain this relevant section:
"The Japanese government told the review that 1,300 Japanese firms had invested in the UK because it was member of the EU single market. It added: “This fact demonstrates that the advantage of the UK as a gateway to the European market has attracted Japanese investment. The government of Japan expects the UK to maintain this favourable role.”"
As for the UK continuing to have access to European markets, well, I am sure that is true but we will still be subject to the same standards (e.g. for safety, emissions etc), only we will no longer be able to influence them.
RFA |
"As for the UK continuing to have access to European markets, well, I am sure that is true but we will still be subject to the same standards (e.g. for safety, emissions etc), only we will no longer be able to influence them. "
We'd have to abide by their safety standards and they'd have to abide by ours and during a dispute a compromise will be reached. Exactly like when we trade with every other non-EU country.
Besides we're told all these EU standards are good for us anyway so continuing to follow them must be a good thing too. The only reason EU standards would be a problem is if they are specifically designed to make trade more difficult for a non-EU country, in which case it is best to be out of a organisation that thinks like that anyway.
Regarding investment, I imagine we gain some by being in the EU and lose others because trade is more difficult with the rest of the world. The fact that the EU share of the world market has been falling for decades shows where else we should be looking. | | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 16:32 - Feb 9 with 1736 views | TheBlob |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:55 - Feb 9 by R_from_afar |
I don't have access to the report itself so I can't give you much more background on why the Japanese have been investing in the UK but the Guardian article does also contain this relevant section:
"The Japanese government told the review that 1,300 Japanese firms had invested in the UK because it was member of the EU single market. It added: “This fact demonstrates that the advantage of the UK as a gateway to the European market has attracted Japanese investment. The government of Japan expects the UK to maintain this favourable role.”"
As for the UK continuing to have access to European markets, well, I am sure that is true but we will still be subject to the same standards (e.g. for safety, emissions etc), only we will no longer be able to influence them.
RFA |
Yes we will no longer have the exemplary emission regulations Volkswagen and others provide. |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 17:51 - Feb 9 with 1684 views | R_from_afar |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 16:32 - Feb 9 by TheBlob |
Yes we will no longer have the exemplary emission regulations Volkswagen and others provide. |
Yet our own government has been quietly trying to water down emissions legislation:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/27/uk-germany-and-france-lobbyin
Air pollution (mostly due to vehicle emissions and the burning of fossil fuels) is responsible for around 5% of all deaths in the UK, by the way.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:16 - Feb 9 with 1627 views | derbyhoop |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:25 - Feb 9 by Clive_Anderson |
"As for the UK continuing to have access to European markets, well, I am sure that is true but we will still be subject to the same standards (e.g. for safety, emissions etc), only we will no longer be able to influence them. "
We'd have to abide by their safety standards and they'd have to abide by ours and during a dispute a compromise will be reached. Exactly like when we trade with every other non-EU country.
Besides we're told all these EU standards are good for us anyway so continuing to follow them must be a good thing too. The only reason EU standards would be a problem is if they are specifically designed to make trade more difficult for a non-EU country, in which case it is best to be out of a organisation that thinks like that anyway.
Regarding investment, I imagine we gain some by being in the EU and lose others because trade is more difficult with the rest of the world. The fact that the EU share of the world market has been falling for decades shows where else we should be looking. |
As far as I am aware there are no EU regulations preventing us from trading with non-EU countries. In fact, both the US and China feature in the destination of our top 6 export destinations.
I'd agree we'd be better off doing more trade with those nations that are growing fast, like India and China. Are UK companies cushioned by the ease of doing business with EU based companies or just not very good at developing the market in more far flung countries?
If we see the falls in UK GDP that are likely to arise from a Brexit (anything from 2 to 9.5%, dependent on our success/failure in negotiating favourable trade deals ), we're going to have to push up our trade with non EU countries. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 10:35 - Feb 10 with 1571 views | Discodroids |
I have it on good authority that E.U Familiar , Vichy Dave Cameron, seeks sport by greasing his old chap with chicken skin , lies naked but for his prep school tuck box on the bed, whistling for his 2 German Shepherds ..
. He reaches sexual nirvana not through the frenzied lapping, but the anticipation and the sound of his dogs barking and tearing along the polished wooden floor, with their claws desperately trying to gain purchase as they turn the corner to his bedroom.
Thats what i heard anyway. |  |
| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:28 - Feb 10 with 1532 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 10:35 - Feb 10 by Discodroids |
I have it on good authority that E.U Familiar , Vichy Dave Cameron, seeks sport by greasing his old chap with chicken skin , lies naked but for his prep school tuck box on the bed, whistling for his 2 German Shepherds ..
. He reaches sexual nirvana not through the frenzied lapping, but the anticipation and the sound of his dogs barking and tearing along the polished wooden floor, with their claws desperately trying to gain purchase as they turn the corner to his bedroom.
Thats what i heard anyway. |
Ha.
I know you say you're off the stuff, but I'm starting to think you must have fallen into a vat of the Colombian Motivational, Obelix stylee, as a bairn. |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:59 - Feb 10 with 1510 views | Clive_Anderson |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:16 - Feb 9 by derbyhoop |
As far as I am aware there are no EU regulations preventing us from trading with non-EU countries. In fact, both the US and China feature in the destination of our top 6 export destinations.
I'd agree we'd be better off doing more trade with those nations that are growing fast, like India and China. Are UK companies cushioned by the ease of doing business with EU based companies or just not very good at developing the market in more far flung countries?
If we see the falls in UK GDP that are likely to arise from a Brexit (anything from 2 to 9.5%, dependent on our success/failure in negotiating favourable trade deals ), we're going to have to push up our trade with non EU countries. |
You seem to be making these two contradictory statements:
1) Being in the EU doesn't make it harder to trade with the rest of the world
2) Leaving the EU will make trading harder with the EU as we are no longer in it | | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:10 - Feb 10 with 1494 views | derbyhoop |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:59 - Feb 10 by Clive_Anderson |
You seem to be making these two contradictory statements:
1) Being in the EU doesn't make it harder to trade with the rest of the world
2) Leaving the EU will make trading harder with the EU as we are no longer in it |
1) I did say
2) Not true. If we leave the EU, then trade with EU countries is likely to fall, both in my judgement and numerous surveys. If we are to maintain/increase GDP then we would need to trade far more with non EU countries to make up the gap. I'm far from convinced we can do that, not because of the EU per se, but because we are not as good as we'd need to be. Limited manufacturing base being one major area of weakness. | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:14 - Feb 10 with 1486 views | TheBlob |
Would leaving the EU make the signing of foreign players easier? | |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:56 - Feb 10 with 1463 views | Aitch |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:10 - Feb 10 by derbyhoop |
1) I did say
2) Not true. If we leave the EU, then trade with EU countries is likely to fall, both in my judgement and numerous surveys. If we are to maintain/increase GDP then we would need to trade far more with non EU countries to make up the gap. I'm far from convinced we can do that, not because of the EU per se, but because we are not as good as we'd need to be. Limited manufacturing base being one major area of weakness. |
It's my understanding that should we leave the EU we would re-take our place in the WTO and therefore be able to trade with the EU under current agreements that exist between the WTO & EU. |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:37 - Feb 10 with 1444 views | Clive_Anderson |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:10 - Feb 10 by derbyhoop |
1) I did say
2) Not true. If we leave the EU, then trade with EU countries is likely to fall, both in my judgement and numerous surveys. If we are to maintain/increase GDP then we would need to trade far more with non EU countries to make up the gap. I'm far from convinced we can do that, not because of the EU per se, but because we are not as good as we'd need to be. Limited manufacturing base being one major area of weakness. |
Why would trade fall if being out the EU doesn't make it harder to trade with the EU? | | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 15:25 - Feb 10 with 1409 views | stevec |
Ultimately, the arguments about trade are a side show.
The only show in town is do you want a UK that controls its own borders or a UK whose borders are controlled by the EU.
If by 2050 you want your childrens kids growing up in a Muslim governed UK then vote REMAIN.
If you are happy that population numbers continue growing faster than we can build houses, then vote REMAIN
if you are happy living off wages that don't keep up with the cost of living, then vote REMAIN
Sadly, I suspect there are just about enough lemmings about, who jump every time Cameron, the Banks and Big Business tells them to, to keep us under the thumb.
Time, I think, for the nation to grow a pair. |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 17:00 - Feb 10 with 1370 views | QPRDave |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:14 - Feb 10 by TheBlob |
Would leaving the EU make the signing of foreign players easier? |
No.....Dave said it would be even harder, giving a worrying look to football fans everywhere, hoping that by showing he's a "football man" we'll all just fall into line or risk losing out on Carlos Kickaball, to Bayern Munich. |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:20 - Feb 11 with 1287 views | R_from_afar |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 15:25 - Feb 10 by stevec |
Ultimately, the arguments about trade are a side show.
The only show in town is do you want a UK that controls its own borders or a UK whose borders are controlled by the EU.
If by 2050 you want your childrens kids growing up in a Muslim governed UK then vote REMAIN.
If you are happy that population numbers continue growing faster than we can build houses, then vote REMAIN
if you are happy living off wages that don't keep up with the cost of living, then vote REMAIN
Sadly, I suspect there are just about enough lemmings about, who jump every time Cameron, the Banks and Big Business tells them to, to keep us under the thumb.
Time, I think, for the nation to grow a pair. |
Hang on, surely most of the Muslims coming to the UK were born in non-EU countries? How does leaving the EU have an impact on whether those people get into the UK?
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:25 - Feb 11 with 1279 views | R_from_afar |
You might find this interesting: In a nutshell, this guy is a major donor to the out campaign yet in the sales prospectus for the company he owns, the potential negative impact on that company of a decision to leave the EU is flagged up:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/06/brexit-chief-firm-quit-risks
Hmm...
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:42 - Feb 11 with 1258 views | Discodroids |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:20 - Feb 11 by R_from_afar |
Hang on, surely most of the Muslims coming to the UK were born in non-EU countries? How does leaving the EU have an impact on whether those people get into the UK?
RFA |
Must resist...Must resist.. | |
| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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