| Caroline flack ... 17:42 - Feb 15 with 5151 views | darthvader |
hsa been found dead in her flat ...
Bloody hell terrible news |  |
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| Caroline flack ... on 08:53 - Feb 17 with 996 views | Sadoldgit |
They treat cases the same. At the end of the day the CPS, the police and the court were just doing what they are there to do under the circumstances. I appreciate that everyone is looking to apportion blame, but perhaps they should start looking at the tabloid press and social media. The CJS was doing its job. The others were just piling more misery, much of it unnecessarily, on an already difficult situation.
Much attention is being given to the fact that he didn’t want to go ahead with the prosecution but the whole point is that the CJS believe a crime had been committed and they have to do something about it. They are there to protect victims, many of whom don’t want to go ahead with a prosecution out of misguided loyalty, fear or “love.” Love is not hitting someone over the head with a lamp when they are asleep. A previous boyfriend fled to Australia to get away from her and called their relationship toxic. Just because she is blonde, attractive and comes across as likeable on TV doesn’t mean to say she is not capable of behaving badly in some circumstances. It may sound harsh, but many people die each year as a result of staying with abusive partners. If the Criminal Justice System had not acted on this occasion and she had ended up killing him further down the line, can you imagine the uproar? It is very sad, but people cannot go round attacking each other with impunity, no matter what gender. |  | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 09:10 - Feb 17 with 980 views | DorsetIan |
| Caroline flack ... on 08:53 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
They treat cases the same. At the end of the day the CPS, the police and the court were just doing what they are there to do under the circumstances. I appreciate that everyone is looking to apportion blame, but perhaps they should start looking at the tabloid press and social media. The CJS was doing its job. The others were just piling more misery, much of it unnecessarily, on an already difficult situation.
Much attention is being given to the fact that he didn’t want to go ahead with the prosecution but the whole point is that the CJS believe a crime had been committed and they have to do something about it. They are there to protect victims, many of whom don’t want to go ahead with a prosecution out of misguided loyalty, fear or “love.” Love is not hitting someone over the head with a lamp when they are asleep. A previous boyfriend fled to Australia to get away from her and called their relationship toxic. Just because she is blonde, attractive and comes across as likeable on TV doesn’t mean to say she is not capable of behaving badly in some circumstances. It may sound harsh, but many people die each year as a result of staying with abusive partners. If the Criminal Justice System had not acted on this occasion and she had ended up killing him further down the line, can you imagine the uproar? It is very sad, but people cannot go round attacking each other with impunity, no matter what gender. |
You write very persuasively, and i hope you are right. You may well be.
The only question for me is whether the CPS did in fact act normally in this case? That’s why I want to know how many other women v men cases they prosecuted when the man did not want the prosecution. If there are plenty of other examples, then fair enough, but I worry that they take a harder line with cases involving a lot of publicity because they don’t want to be seen to be dropping the case.
In recent years the police and cps have behaved very badly in relation to some famous people. Cliff Richard, Paul Gabbacicini and Harvey Proctor all spring to mind. |  |
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| Caroline flack ... on 09:33 - Feb 17 with 972 views | 1885_SFC |
| Caroline flack ... on 09:10 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
You write very persuasively, and i hope you are right. You may well be.
The only question for me is whether the CPS did in fact act normally in this case? That’s why I want to know how many other women v men cases they prosecuted when the man did not want the prosecution. If there are plenty of other examples, then fair enough, but I worry that they take a harder line with cases involving a lot of publicity because they don’t want to be seen to be dropping the case.
In recent years the police and cps have behaved very badly in relation to some famous people. Cliff Richard, Paul Gabbacicini and Harvey Proctor all spring to mind. |
The ex-chief of the CPS:
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| Caroline flack ... on 10:20 - Feb 17 with 952 views | Sadoldgit |
Interesting to see the tabloids who did so much to vilify Caroline Flack are now trying to deflect blame onto the CPS. | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:33 - Feb 17 with 943 views | Marcus_y |
I can speak from direct experience of how the UK law works in domestic abuse and how badly bias it works against men. I was the victim for 14 years as were our kids. Mum was very bad tempered. It ended with me being arrested for calling her names and shouting at her. I fought it in court and had the kids testify that we had all put up with her hitting us etc., for 14 years and guess what, they didn't care and hauled me over the coals for name calling. I made several serious complaints to the police. They arrested her for hitting the kids, she admitted it. They let her go. No caution, no charge. I called her names and got 80 hours community work.
From what i can see here, this is a lady with a bad mouth and temper. She was likely guilty and is being treated like a hard done hero. OK, it is sad she took her own life but that is not the fault of the CPS or the papers. She was clearly just a troubled soul. |  |
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| Caroline flack ... on 11:26 - Feb 17 with 923 views | Sadoldgit |
| Caroline flack ... on 09:10 - Feb 17 by DorsetIan |
You write very persuasively, and i hope you are right. You may well be.
The only question for me is whether the CPS did in fact act normally in this case? That’s why I want to know how many other women v men cases they prosecuted when the man did not want the prosecution. If there are plenty of other examples, then fair enough, but I worry that they take a harder line with cases involving a lot of publicity because they don’t want to be seen to be dropping the case.
In recent years the police and cps have behaved very badly in relation to some famous people. Cliff Richard, Paul Gabbacicini and Harvey Proctor all spring to mind. |
The CPS are totally reliant on the police and what they provide in the way of evidence. They will press the police if they feel the evidence doesn’t come up to scratch and will drop cases if they feel the evidence is not strong enough. The police often state that they have evidence which isn’t forthcoming. It is not a perfect science because you are relying on people telling the truth or presenting “facts” correctly. As we know there are two sides to every story and sometimes a case is built on false evidence. That is why we have a court system where cases are put and a decision made by magistrates or by a jury. The police make mistakes, the CPS make mistakes, magistrates and juries make mistakes, but overall the system is robust.
Newspaper editors have choices. They don’t have to vilify people. They don’t have to carry out character assassination before a trail is heard. Today the Sun says that she was “hounded” by the CPS. Sending a letter of an impending prosecution is not “hounding.” Publishing lurid front page stories of people going through a tough time is “hounding.”
People who sit behind their keyboards and who send vile messages via Facebook, Twitter etc are “hounding.”
Caroline Flack and her boyfriend had an opportunity to put their side of the story to the magistrates court after which the tabloids could have printed a factual account of the proceedings. Instead they decided to publish damaging stories beforehand. There was nothing published by the CPS prior to the court case.
People will make their own decisions, but she was clearly a very troubled lady whose life was made harder by being in the goldfish bowl of celebrity. | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 13:16 - Feb 17 with 876 views | Occasional_Showers |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:20 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
Interesting to see the tabloids who did so much to vilify Caroline Flack are now trying to deflect blame onto the CPS. |
I appreciate your opinion, but sometimes you need to take a sensible stance and prosecuting her wasnt wanted by her boyfriend and it wasnt in the public interest. The fault here is completely with the cps and not the press who were reporting based on the ridiculous situation created by a jobsworth cps pen pusher who decided to make a mountain out of a mole hill. |  |
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| Caroline flack ... on 15:48 - Feb 17 with 821 views | Sadoldgit |
I should add regarding The Sun’s hounding claim, unless Caroline Flack was defending herself, which is highly unlikely, the CPS write to the defence solicitors, not to the defendant directly. Her solicticors would have informed her that the case was going ahead, not the CPS. Her solicitors were in a much better position to know what her state of mental health was like and if there was any concern it was down to them to bring it to the attention of the court. | | | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 15:52 - Feb 17 with 810 views | kentsouthampton |
| Caroline flack ... on 13:16 - Feb 17 by Occasional_Showers |
I appreciate your opinion, but sometimes you need to take a sensible stance and prosecuting her wasnt wanted by her boyfriend and it wasnt in the public interest. The fault here is completely with the cps and not the press who were reporting based on the ridiculous situation created by a jobsworth cps pen pusher who decided to make a mountain out of a mole hill. |
" The fault here is completely with the cps and not the press who were reporting based on the ridiculous situation created by a jobsworth cps pen pusher who decided to make a mountain out of a mole hill."
This was amongst 43 pieces on Caroline Flack deleted from the suns web page.
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| Caroline flack ... on 16:09 - Feb 17 with 800 views | DorsetIan |
| Caroline flack ... on 15:48 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
I should add regarding The Sun’s hounding claim, unless Caroline Flack was defending herself, which is highly unlikely, the CPS write to the defence solicitors, not to the defendant directly. Her solicticors would have informed her that the case was going ahead, not the CPS. Her solicitors were in a much better position to know what her state of mental health was like and if there was any concern it was down to them to bring it to the attention of the court. |
Maybe this is just one of those where hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Good discussion on here though, for once. Your contributions have been sensible and informative. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 16:29 - Feb 17 with 779 views | Sadoldgit |
| Caroline flack ... on 13:16 - Feb 17 by Occasional_Showers |
I appreciate your opinion, but sometimes you need to take a sensible stance and prosecuting her wasnt wanted by her boyfriend and it wasnt in the public interest. The fault here is completely with the cps and not the press who were reporting based on the ridiculous situation created by a jobsworth cps pen pusher who decided to make a mountain out of a mole hill. |
What if they had dropped the case and a few weeks later she had stuck a knife in him?
None of us know what happened in the flat that night but it was clearly a serious incident. It appears that she was a very troubled person. Unstable people are likely to do crazy things. The CPS have a duty of care to the victim. The decision would have been made by an experienced senior lawyer. To call them a pen pusher shows how little you understand what goes on, but as with most keyboard warriors, you don’t let that stop you mouthing off. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands so go and look into how much vile crap she had to deal with from the tabloids and people like you on Twitter and Facebook. The CPS were doing their job. The people that caused her daily grief were the trolls and WUMs and gutter journalists who just seem to get off on making other people’s lives a misery. | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 19:43 - Feb 17 with 748 views | Occasional_Showers |
| Caroline flack ... on 16:29 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
What if they had dropped the case and a few weeks later she had stuck a knife in him?
None of us know what happened in the flat that night but it was clearly a serious incident. It appears that she was a very troubled person. Unstable people are likely to do crazy things. The CPS have a duty of care to the victim. The decision would have been made by an experienced senior lawyer. To call them a pen pusher shows how little you understand what goes on, but as with most keyboard warriors, you don’t let that stop you mouthing off. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands so go and look into how much vile crap she had to deal with from the tabloids and people like you on Twitter and Facebook. The CPS were doing their job. The people that caused her daily grief were the trolls and WUMs and gutter journalists who just seem to get off on making other people’s lives a misery. |
I've never posted on Twitter or Facebook. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 19:48 - Feb 17 with 740 views | Bicester_North |
| Caroline flack ... on 16:29 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
What if they had dropped the case and a few weeks later she had stuck a knife in him?
None of us know what happened in the flat that night but it was clearly a serious incident. It appears that she was a very troubled person. Unstable people are likely to do crazy things. The CPS have a duty of care to the victim. The decision would have been made by an experienced senior lawyer. To call them a pen pusher shows how little you understand what goes on, but as with most keyboard warriors, you don’t let that stop you mouthing off. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands so go and look into how much vile crap she had to deal with from the tabloids and people like you on Twitter and Facebook. The CPS were doing their job. The people that caused her daily grief were the trolls and WUMs and gutter journalists who just seem to get off on making other people’s lives a misery. |
How do you know what caused her daily grief? | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 19:53 - Feb 17 with 735 views | Sadoldgit |
| Caroline flack ... on 19:48 - Feb 17 by Bicester_North |
How do you know what caused her daily grief? |
I’m paraphrasing from what I have read about the abuse she received. Perhaps she thought it was all a laugh? What do you think? | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 19:55 - Feb 17 with 727 views | Bicester_North |
| Caroline flack ... on 19:53 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
I’m paraphrasing from what I have read about the abuse she received. Perhaps she thought it was all a laugh? What do you think? |
I haven’t got a clue as I didn’t know her personally. It could have been any number of things, You seem know exactly, just wondered how? | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 21:27 - Feb 17 with 690 views | Sadoldgit |
| Caroline flack ... on 19:55 - Feb 17 by Bicester_North |
I haven’t got a clue as I didn’t know her personally. It could have been any number of things, You seem know exactly, just wondered how? |
I don’t know exactly, but her friends have said that she has been badly affected by the media and social media comments and she herself said “in a world where you can be anything, be kind.” | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 03:55 - Feb 18 with 615 views | Occasional_Showers |
| Caroline flack ... on 21:27 - Feb 17 by Sadoldgit |
I don’t know exactly, but her friends have said that she has been badly affected by the media and social media comments and she herself said “in a world where you can be anything, be kind.” |
Convenient how you missed out how she has been dreading the court case. It's that case hanging over her that pushed her to kill herself. That case that her boyfriend didn't want and wasnt in the public's interest to pursue. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 09:01 - Feb 18 with 571 views | BuenosSaint |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:33 - Feb 17 by Marcus_y |
I can speak from direct experience of how the UK law works in domestic abuse and how badly bias it works against men. I was the victim for 14 years as were our kids. Mum was very bad tempered. It ended with me being arrested for calling her names and shouting at her. I fought it in court and had the kids testify that we had all put up with her hitting us etc., for 14 years and guess what, they didn't care and hauled me over the coals for name calling. I made several serious complaints to the police. They arrested her for hitting the kids, she admitted it. They let her go. No caution, no charge. I called her names and got 80 hours community work.
From what i can see here, this is a lady with a bad mouth and temper. She was likely guilty and is being treated like a hard done hero. OK, it is sad she took her own life but that is not the fault of the CPS or the papers. She was clearly just a troubled soul. |
Thanks for sharing that Marcus. Really heartfelt and informative post. Hope this was a while ago and that the criminal justice system has improved and sees the whole picture nowadays. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 09:33 - Feb 18 with 554 views | Marcus_y |
| Caroline flack ... on 09:01 - Feb 18 by BuenosSaint |
Thanks for sharing that Marcus. Really heartfelt and informative post. Hope this was a while ago and that the criminal justice system has improved and sees the whole picture nowadays. |
No, in fact it was just last year and the reason it came about so badly was because of the new law in May 2018 stating that all complaints or 999 calls of domestic abuse must be investigated and the accused must be arrested and kept away from the other person, the victim, until the investigation is complete. So basically, the victim can lie and you will still be arrested, removed from the property and not be allowed to return until investigation is complete. It has ruined several lives so 4 solicitors told me as I looked for a defence. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 10:17 - Feb 18 with 541 views | Sadoldgit |
| Caroline flack ... on 03:55 - Feb 18 by Occasional_Showers |
Convenient how you missed out how she has been dreading the court case. It's that case hanging over her that pushed her to kill herself. That case that her boyfriend didn't want and wasnt in the public's interest to pursue. |
I think most people would dread a court case. How do you know that it was the court case that pushed herself to take her own life? No one knows yet apart from you it seems. Go and educate yourself about domestic violence cases. If the prosecutors feel it is in the public interest to take the case to trial they will do. You might not agree but it is not your choice. Many victims of DV withdraw their evidence for all sorts of reasons.The CPS obviously felt that there was enough evidence for a conviction as it was and that the case was worthy of taking to court. That is their job. You can’t just drop a case because the defendant is feeling fragile. You clearly seem to have issues with the CPS.
Just so as you are clear. None of us knows what caused her to take her life. None of us where there the night of the incident and knows what happened. The police took their evidence to the CPS and they decided that their was enough evidence to present a case for common assault and that it was in the public interest to take the case before the magistrates court.
None of us know what the prosecutions case would have been. None of us know what the defence case would have been. None of us know what the magistrates verdict would have been so everything else is pure conjecture.
What isn’t conjecture is that a serious incident took place that night that involved the police. That Caroline Flack was charged with an offence. That certain tabloids and social media platforms treated her very badly in the aftermath.
You however have decided that her suicide is totally down to the CPS. | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:28 - Feb 18 with 535 views | DorsetIan |
| Caroline flack ... on 09:33 - Feb 18 by Marcus_y |
No, in fact it was just last year and the reason it came about so badly was because of the new law in May 2018 stating that all complaints or 999 calls of domestic abuse must be investigated and the accused must be arrested and kept away from the other person, the victim, until the investigation is complete. So basically, the victim can lie and you will still be arrested, removed from the property and not be allowed to return until investigation is complete. It has ruined several lives so 4 solicitors told me as I looked for a defence. |
Just as a matter of interest Marcus, did they impose bail conditions which separated you from your partner? Did your partner 'press charges'? Did you defend yourself in court or plead guilty? [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 10:29]
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| Caroline flack ... on 10:42 - Feb 18 with 533 views | Sadoldgit |
| Caroline flack ... on 09:33 - Feb 18 by Marcus_y |
No, in fact it was just last year and the reason it came about so badly was because of the new law in May 2018 stating that all complaints or 999 calls of domestic abuse must be investigated and the accused must be arrested and kept away from the other person, the victim, until the investigation is complete. So basically, the victim can lie and you will still be arrested, removed from the property and not be allowed to return until investigation is complete. It has ruined several lives so 4 solicitors told me as I looked for a defence. |
Back in around 2002 when my first wife and I were breaking up, we had a series of verbal arguments
that would often end up with her calling the police, usually well after the arguments had ended. On a couple of occasions the police actually arrested me sand I spent the night in the nick. When I asked why I was being arrested when we were both guilty of arguing they said that, in domestic incidents where there are children involved they are instructed to remove the man from the scene. On one occasion I was even removed after I had been assaulted by my mother in law with a bunch of keys. They were clearly trying to remove me from the house and knew that they had the police on their side and played up to it. It worked. I finally moved out as I realised it didn’t matter what happened, I was always in the wrong because I was a bloke.
Many men suffer domestic abuse from their partners but are afraid to make a complaint because either it makes them look weak or because they think that they will not be believed because of the perception that it is usually the men who commit DV. DV comes in many forms. It can be physical abuse. It can be mental abuse. In my case it was mostly mental abuse although my ex wife did punch me on one occasion. I didn’t report it to the police but now I wish I had. My mother and brother were convinced that my ex wife was going to stick a knife in me but I told them that they were just being silly and that she was just stressed out with three young kids to look after and that it would get better. I found out later that her previous husband had taken his own life after a long period of verbal abuse from her. I survived the relationship but only after a prolonged period of support in The Priory.
I think that there are probably a lot more stories like this that we need to hear. Men need to speak up so that we understand that DV is not just a man thing. | | | |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:50 - Feb 18 with 530 views | Marcus_y |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:28 - Feb 18 by DorsetIan |
Just as a matter of interest Marcus, did they impose bail conditions which separated you from your partner? Did your partner 'press charges'? Did you defend yourself in court or plead guilty? [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 10:29]
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Yes they imposed bail conditions. She did not press charges, the CPS did. I had to plead guilty for two reasons. 1. I did cal her names and 2. the only sure way to defend myself and show the court who the abusive one was, would have meant dragging my kids into court and I could not do that. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 10:56 - Feb 18 with 527 views | Marcus_y |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:42 - Feb 18 by Sadoldgit |
Back in around 2002 when my first wife and I were breaking up, we had a series of verbal arguments
that would often end up with her calling the police, usually well after the arguments had ended. On a couple of occasions the police actually arrested me sand I spent the night in the nick. When I asked why I was being arrested when we were both guilty of arguing they said that, in domestic incidents where there are children involved they are instructed to remove the man from the scene. On one occasion I was even removed after I had been assaulted by my mother in law with a bunch of keys. They were clearly trying to remove me from the house and knew that they had the police on their side and played up to it. It worked. I finally moved out as I realised it didn’t matter what happened, I was always in the wrong because I was a bloke.
Many men suffer domestic abuse from their partners but are afraid to make a complaint because either it makes them look weak or because they think that they will not be believed because of the perception that it is usually the men who commit DV. DV comes in many forms. It can be physical abuse. It can be mental abuse. In my case it was mostly mental abuse although my ex wife did punch me on one occasion. I didn’t report it to the police but now I wish I had. My mother and brother were convinced that my ex wife was going to stick a knife in me but I told them that they were just being silly and that she was just stressed out with three young kids to look after and that it would get better. I found out later that her previous husband had taken his own life after a long period of verbal abuse from her. I survived the relationship but only after a prolonged period of support in The Priory.
I think that there are probably a lot more stories like this that we need to hear. Men need to speak up so that we understand that DV is not just a man thing. |
Your experience has a lot in common with mine sir. So sorry to hear of this, no one should go through this. I agree more men need to report it,. but when we do it gets laughed off and the lady gets let off, while they site stress of looking after kids etc as excuses for her. Like you, I had been punched, threatened with a knife, and more, but I never reported it. I too wish i had now. But the kids attested to my claims to the police, but they still refused to take any action against her, but spent thousands of tax payers money hauling me over the coals for name calling. I spoke to fathers for justice in regards to going to family court to get custody of the kids also, as social services were aware of her drinking and violence and recommended she attended parenting courses, yet still the family court gave her custody. It beggars belief. | |
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| Caroline flack ... on 11:07 - Feb 18 with 525 views | DorsetIan |
| Caroline flack ... on 10:50 - Feb 18 by Marcus_y |
Yes they imposed bail conditions. She did not press charges, the CPS did. I had to plead guilty for two reasons. 1. I did cal her names and 2. the only sure way to defend myself and show the court who the abusive one was, would have meant dragging my kids into court and I could not do that. |
Thanks. That makes sense, and it does seem harsh and one sided. Hopefully your lawyer had a chance to explain a bit of the background when it came to a discussion on sentencing. | |
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