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You've fallen at the first hurdle 442.....dont buy into the hype and hysteria
Norden, the only people who have hyped this up and been hysterical about it are the ones, like yourself, who don’t want it to happen. Everybody else seems to be quite relaxed about the whole thing. You’re the one hyping this up.
Norden, the only people who have hyped this up and been hysterical about it are the ones, like yourself, who don’t want it to happen. Everybody else seems to be quite relaxed about the whole thing. You’re the one hyping this up.
I personally don’t have an issue with it overall, other than any player not wanting to support it would be hammered in the press, your effectively having to do it by default or go against the masses.
Months back I was accused of being racist on here, for saying all lives matter, which to me would encourage inclusion and unity, so you become wary of posting any views on race of any kind.
If Bobby Grant takes a knee does it mean anything?
Every Team Needs A John Ryan - The Winger Who's a Ringer!!!!!
Norden, the only people who have hyped this up and been hysterical about it are the ones, like yourself, who don’t want it to happen. Everybody else seems to be quite relaxed about the whole thing. You’re the one hyping this up.
I couldn't be more relaxed thanks,like everyone else you're trying to insinuate anyone remotely disagreeing with the whole load of bollox must be and can't possibly not be a racist.......
You're spot on though, im fooking raging so angry infact ive been out regularly demonstrating in the middle of a global pandemic,whilst I loot in between pulling down random statues when I get the time....simply brilliant
There have been poppies on shirts in Dale's matches on or around 11th November for the last few seasons.
I didn't say there wasn't. Plenty of, if not all, other clubs as well. However, UEFA classed the poppy as a 'political symbol' when England planned to wear it on the team shirts. It caused a furore and rightly so. It was and is, a ridiculous notion.
'Taking a knee' is rightly seen as a powerful public gesture against oppression and inequality. It has traditionally been used by military personnel around the world, as an act of respect for fallen comrades who have died in battle. In itself, it is a potent symbol of support, but now that it has been 'hi-jacked' by a Marxist organisation for a different cause, it takes on a different significance in the public psyche.
Add to that the appearance of clenched fists and the slogan BLM on players shirts, then it becomes something else entirely.
Only a crackpot would suggest that Black LIves DON'T Matter, just as every other human life matters - all are of equal worth - but there are better and less divisive ways of showing it than currently happens.
I wonder how many players would choose not to 'take a knee' if it weren't forced on them, for fear of reprisals? Fear of being able to express a personal preference. Thin end of the wedge.
“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooledâ€
I couldn't be more relaxed thanks,like everyone else you're trying to insinuate anyone remotely disagreeing with the whole load of bollox must be and can't possibly not be a racist.......
You're spot on though, im fooking raging so angry infact ive been out regularly demonstrating in the middle of a global pandemic,whilst I loot in between pulling down random statues when I get the time....simply brilliant
You’re definitely not being hysterical here. I don’t think the players were taking the knee for looting were they?
I personally don’t have an issue with it overall, other than any player not wanting to support it would be hammered in the press, your effectively having to do it by default or go against the masses.
Months back I was accused of being racist on here, for saying all lives matter, which to me would encourage inclusion and unity, so you become wary of posting any views on race of any kind.
If Bobby Grant takes a knee does it mean anything?
It literally just means that Bobby Grant agrees that blm.
I didn't say there wasn't. Plenty of, if not all, other clubs as well. However, UEFA classed the poppy as a 'political symbol' when England planned to wear it on the team shirts. It caused a furore and rightly so. It was and is, a ridiculous notion.
'Taking a knee' is rightly seen as a powerful public gesture against oppression and inequality. It has traditionally been used by military personnel around the world, as an act of respect for fallen comrades who have died in battle. In itself, it is a potent symbol of support, but now that it has been 'hi-jacked' by a Marxist organisation for a different cause, it takes on a different significance in the public psyche.
Add to that the appearance of clenched fists and the slogan BLM on players shirts, then it becomes something else entirely.
Only a crackpot would suggest that Black LIves DON'T Matter, just as every other human life matters - all are of equal worth - but there are better and less divisive ways of showing it than currently happens.
I wonder how many players would choose not to 'take a knee' if it weren't forced on them, for fear of reprisals? Fear of being able to express a personal preference. Thin end of the wedge.
What i want to know (and what others having already asked) is why does it make any difference if there's a crowd present or not?
I didn't say there wasn't. Plenty of, if not all, other clubs as well. However, UEFA classed the poppy as a 'political symbol' when England planned to wear it on the team shirts. It caused a furore and rightly so. It was and is, a ridiculous notion.
'Taking a knee' is rightly seen as a powerful public gesture against oppression and inequality. It has traditionally been used by military personnel around the world, as an act of respect for fallen comrades who have died in battle. In itself, it is a potent symbol of support, but now that it has been 'hi-jacked' by a Marxist organisation for a different cause, it takes on a different significance in the public psyche.
Add to that the appearance of clenched fists and the slogan BLM on players shirts, then it becomes something else entirely.
Only a crackpot would suggest that Black LIves DON'T Matter, just as every other human life matters - all are of equal worth - but there are better and less divisive ways of showing it than currently happens.
I wonder how many players would choose not to 'take a knee' if it weren't forced on them, for fear of reprisals? Fear of being able to express a personal preference. Thin end of the wedge.
Got to say Sudden, I do find it very ironic that you're pondering how many players would choose not to take a knee if it weren't "forced upon them" whilst also mentioning poppies.
I wonder how many players would choose not to wear poppies had they not already seen the sort of reaction James McClean gets every year when he decides not to wear one?
It literally just means that Bobby Grant agrees that blm.
[Post edited 12 Sep 2020 18:42]
So the guy who got in trouble for racist abuse on kick it out day takes a knee. Does he mean it, has he learned or does he do it because everybody else is and it’s quieter life?
If Grant (or anyone else) bucked the trend, they would forever have a stigma attached to them (eg Ched Evans, for other reasons)
It’s not freedom to make a choice, it’s freedom to make a choice, against what has been told you should do, when most do it regardless of if they agree or not.
Every Team Needs A John Ryan - The Winger Who's a Ringer!!!!!
What i want to know (and what others having already asked) is why does it make any difference if there's a crowd present or not?
SuddenLad, would you mind answering this question?
It's not a trick, or an attempt to put you down, i just genuinely want to know what difference you thought it made when you took the trouble to create an OP
Got to say Sudden, I do find it very ironic that you're pondering how many players would choose not to take a knee if it weren't "forced upon them" whilst also mentioning poppies.
I wonder how many players would choose not to wear poppies had they not already seen the sort of reaction James McClean gets every year when he decides not to wear one?
This post has been edited by an administrator
There would probably be plenty of players who would elect not to wear the poppy. It's their choice. As is 'taking a knee'. That's the point, really. They aren't being given a choice. Thankfully, England and Australia made a common-sense decision and opted not to bother.
In any case, the poppy is not and never has been a political symbol. It's nothing more than a token of remembrance.
As far as crowds are concerned, I doubt very much that everyone would sit silently whilst it took place. That in itself is a potential flashpoint because there are plenty of folk who don't agree with it.
“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooledâ€
So the guy who got in trouble for racist abuse on kick it out day takes a knee. Does he mean it, has he learned or does he do it because everybody else is and it’s quieter life?
If Grant (or anyone else) bucked the trend, they would forever have a stigma attached to them (eg Ched Evans, for other reasons)
It’s not freedom to make a choice, it’s freedom to make a choice, against what has been told you should do, when most do it regardless of if they agree or not.
Thacks, I wish I could explain the thought processes of Bobby Grant. However, I can’t. I do know, however, that people do regret actions they once took when they were younger or dumber or in the heat of the moment. He may now appreciate that he once didn’t think that black lives mattered and it was a bit wrong to think that.
There would probably be plenty of players who would elect not to wear the poppy. It's their choice. As is 'taking a knee'. That's the point, really. They aren't being given a choice. Thankfully, England and Australia made a common-sense decision and opted not to bother.
In any case, the poppy is not and never has been a political symbol. It's nothing more than a token of remembrance.
As far as crowds are concerned, I doubt very much that everyone would sit silently whilst it took place. That in itself is a potential flashpoint because there are plenty of folk who don't agree with it.
Revisit that post in the weeks running up to 11/11. People In the public eye who do opt to not wear a poppy, or even worse* wear a white poppy are treated like shite by the likes of the Express, Mail, Sun and a significant portion of social media. It shouldn’t be a political symbol. But increasingly, it is. What was a a voluntary act of remembrance and donation to a charity now seems to be seen by many as a mandatory action.
*according to those who froth are the mouth about these things.
And I can understand your point about individual players making a choice on “taking the knee”. But as above, some would be attacked by the media and those on social media. Maybe if it bothers you though, contact RAFC and see if the players all want to take the knee? If they do, is that OK in your eyes?
Most people who make the ALM rebuttal to BLM. Don't really think ALM really do they. I think BLM should be BLMT with the T standing too.
ALM. Sounds nice. Doesn’t exist. Would the folk shouting out for “dOnT aLl liVEs maTtEr” be the same sorts who cry about immigration and “looking after our own” whilst simultaneously not giving a shit about anyone else, ever volunteering or donating to any charities to “help their own” and going out of their way to fiddle the tax man on cash in hand jobs so the support for “our own” gets worse?
SuddenLad, would you mind answering this question?
It's not a trick, or an attempt to put you down, i just genuinely want to know what difference you thought it made when you took the trouble to create an OP
Especially, when cameras are present anyway
D_Alien, in all honesty, I am actually fearful that the reaction of a live crowd, some influenced by alcohol, would be hostile to the act itself and would start booing which would likely create a toxic atmosphere, with the potential for disorder.
It is a 'hot-potato' and divisive. Displays of dissent are virtually inevitable and best avoided.
“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooledâ€
There’s nothing fashionable about it, it’s just being fair and humane.
So do you think dismantling capitalism and defunding the police are good ideas? I don’t, and herein lyes my problem with BLM. If they were just human rights/equality activists I’d support them 100%, but they are a deeply political movement, with somethings I totally disagree with.
Revisit that post in the weeks running up to 11/11. People In the public eye who do opt to not wear a poppy, or even worse* wear a white poppy are treated like shite by the likes of the Express, Mail, Sun and a significant portion of social media. It shouldn’t be a political symbol. But increasingly, it is. What was a a voluntary act of remembrance and donation to a charity now seems to be seen by many as a mandatory action.
*according to those who froth are the mouth about these things.
And I can understand your point about individual players making a choice on “taking the knee”. But as above, some would be attacked by the media and those on social media. Maybe if it bothers you though, contact RAFC and see if the players all want to take the knee? If they do, is that OK in your eyes?
Of course it's OK. If that's their choice, let them do it. I have no issue with that.
“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooledâ€
So do you think dismantling capitalism and defunding the police are good ideas? I don’t, and herein lyes my problem with BLM. If they were just human rights/equality activists I’d support them 100%, but they are a deeply political movement, with somethings I totally disagree with.
Ahhh roccy you racist barsteward.....how very dare you not swallow the handbook, its an open ticket to be as big a bell end as humanly possibly whilst sliding some bonkers ideas behind the curtain of.. oh and if you don't agree with it all we'll just pop the racism card in our top pocket in case. As previously posted its a fashionable movement
D_Alien, in all honesty, I am actually fearful that the reaction of a live crowd, some influenced by alcohol, would be hostile to the act itself and would start booing which would likely create a toxic atmosphere, with the potential for disorder.
It is a 'hot-potato' and divisive. Displays of dissent are virtually inevitable and best avoided.
OK, thanks for your response
That's highly unlikely under the current crowd restrictions, but not impossible
By the time crowd restrictions are lifted (i.e. next season) it's also unlikely that 'taking the knee' will still be happening - at least on a routine basis
Whilst completely in agreement with the sentiment behind it, i personally feel there's a danger of it becoming too much of routine, thus losing its impact which would be a shame
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