| Russell Martin court case settled on 22:42 - Nov 14 with 1449 views | Whiterockin |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 22:23 - Nov 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
When Swansea sold Piroe it was used to solve cash flow issues and keep the debt low. Presumably with big backers Swansea could sell a £10m player and replace with another £10m player with the debts staying under limits.
Swansea s ability to buy £190m prospects from £1m has declined. |
When we sold Piroe half was paid this summer so it was little to do with cash flow. When the payment came it cleared the charges against the company, which were not due to be paid, so again nothing to do with cash flow. When he was originally sold, if it was done a couple of weeks earlier it would have been in a different financial year so would have helped with P&S. Again nothing to do with cash flow. |  | |  |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 23:27 - Nov 14 with 1403 views | KeithHaynes |
We must not forget either, those deals last August and there were a lot with good cash on the end of them won’t come into play until P&S is disclosed next year. As we’ve said before, it is part of the reason why Coleman changed his starting date to August. And of course the next return will be far healthier. The debt though will remain but will be smaller.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 08:16 - Nov 15 with 1303 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 22:42 - Nov 14 by Whiterockin |
When we sold Piroe half was paid this summer so it was little to do with cash flow. When the payment came it cleared the charges against the company, which were not due to be paid, so again nothing to do with cash flow. When he was originally sold, if it was done a couple of weeks earlier it would have been in a different financial year so would have helped with P&S. Again nothing to do with cash flow. |
I do not follow the micro detail of the clubs accounts and neither do you presumably as it is not published. Big cash payments mean there are no cash flow issues. If there were any issues the cash would have solved it. All businesses have to watch the cash flow.
The point I am making is that in transfers a £10m sale is not matched by a £10m purchase. [Post edited 15 Nov 8:18]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 08:24 - Nov 15 with 1280 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 18:58 - Nov 12 by pencoedjack |
Russell Martin is a legend to some fans.
I’d put him down with Bradley 👍 |
He demanded to leave the club and appears to have acted to avoid paying the agreed contractual clauses in full. He made this issue one between him and the owners (" it's personal") not the club to curry favour with the fans.
The club needs to be united from top to bottom. Martin created a division. He made a big song and dance about a blank window when in fact very few clubs in the Championship signed more than one player.
Martin needed new signings to cover up a flakey tactical set up which is being exposed again by better team. 60% possession 30% shots | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 08:30 - Nov 15 with 1281 views | Whiterockin |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 08:16 - Nov 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I do not follow the micro detail of the clubs accounts and neither do you presumably as it is not published. Big cash payments mean there are no cash flow issues. If there were any issues the cash would have solved it. All businesses have to watch the cash flow.
The point I am making is that in transfers a £10m sale is not matched by a £10m purchase. [Post edited 15 Nov 8:18]
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Anyone with business sense can follow company notifications on Companies House and understand what is happening. Both Keith and myself, have for many months been saying what was going to happen regarding cash flow, P&S and ownership structure. Some kept an open mind, some like yourself didn't. You really have to accept that your support for Levien and Kaplan has clouded your thoughts. [Post edited 15 Nov 8:32]
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 09:12 - Nov 15 with 1218 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 08:30 - Nov 15 by Whiterockin |
Anyone with business sense can follow company notifications on Companies House and understand what is happening. Both Keith and myself, have for many months been saying what was going to happen regarding cash flow, P&S and ownership structure. Some kept an open mind, some like yourself didn't. You really have to accept that your support for Levien and Kaplan has clouded your thoughts. [Post edited 15 Nov 8:32]
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I kept an open mind. i stated I took speculation with a pinch of salt. Kaplan and Levien were owners for 8 long years. They have left the club in decent shape and it looks as if they have sold to ambitious buyers.
I thank them for that. They were let down by locals and poor recruitment when the club was relegated. They gave taken a financial hit and cut their losses. I see no reason to be negative about them. I back the whole club irrespective of ethnicity race or faith. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 09:35 - Nov 15 with 1203 views | onehunglow |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 09:12 - Nov 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I kept an open mind. i stated I took speculation with a pinch of salt. Kaplan and Levien were owners for 8 long years. They have left the club in decent shape and it looks as if they have sold to ambitious buyers.
I thank them for that. They were let down by locals and poor recruitment when the club was relegated. They gave taken a financial hit and cut their losses. I see no reason to be negative about them. I back the whole club irrespective of ethnicity race or faith. |
Frankly, that has made me think and looking at it ,at face value,it’s hard to disagree .
Our relegation was avoidable and shocking decisions made . We blew t ,simple as that .
Kaplan and Levein, might not have been as bad stewards of our club as I thought and if sold to the “ right” people ,they will have done us fine .
People need to forget old scores but it’s clear they can’t or won’t. Hence the references to bygone staff . Looking at other club forums,few do this as Swansea fans .
As for checking Companies House for records etc,many don’t have the time and God help them,the financial acumen that some have .
Most fans just want success . That simple ,that shallow |  |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 10:34 - Nov 15 with 1143 views | Whiterockin |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 09:35 - Nov 15 by onehunglow |
Frankly, that has made me think and looking at it ,at face value,it’s hard to disagree .
Our relegation was avoidable and shocking decisions made . We blew t ,simple as that .
Kaplan and Levein, might not have been as bad stewards of our club as I thought and if sold to the “ right” people ,they will have done us fine .
People need to forget old scores but it’s clear they can’t or won’t. Hence the references to bygone staff . Looking at other club forums,few do this as Swansea fans .
As for checking Companies House for records etc,many don’t have the time and God help them,the financial acumen that some have .
Most fans just want success . That simple ,that shallow |
Owners are always just passing through and are temporary custodians, the way to judge them is if they leave the club in a better position than when they arrive, this is definitely not the case with Kaplan and Levien. We were a reasonable solid Premier League club when they arrived and during their time we have spiraled downwards. I blame it their arrogance and total lack of understanding of the British football market. They have never had any affinity to the club and tried only to use it as an investment vehicle and failed.
As for checking Companies House, nobody has too because everything is regularly posted on here and other supporters websites.
As for most supporters wanting success, of course we do. I hope Coleman can deliver, up until now he hasn't. I'm clutching at the straw that Kaplan and Levien have been putting to many restraints on him and with the new ownership things will be different. | | | |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 10:36 - Nov 15 with 1129 views | onehunglow |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 10:34 - Nov 15 by Whiterockin |
Owners are always just passing through and are temporary custodians, the way to judge them is if they leave the club in a better position than when they arrive, this is definitely not the case with Kaplan and Levien. We were a reasonable solid Premier League club when they arrived and during their time we have spiraled downwards. I blame it their arrogance and total lack of understanding of the British football market. They have never had any affinity to the club and tried only to use it as an investment vehicle and failed.
As for checking Companies House, nobody has too because everything is regularly posted on here and other supporters websites.
As for most supporters wanting success, of course we do. I hope Coleman can deliver, up until now he hasn't. I'm clutching at the straw that Kaplan and Levien have been putting to many restraints on him and with the new ownership things will be different. |
And I agree with much of that
In fact,it’s a new epoch for me; agreeing is better than not. It seems life is simpler that way . | |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 12:43 - Nov 15 with 1090 views | Dr_Winston |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 10:34 - Nov 15 by Whiterockin |
Owners are always just passing through and are temporary custodians, the way to judge them is if they leave the club in a better position than when they arrive, this is definitely not the case with Kaplan and Levien. We were a reasonable solid Premier League club when they arrived and during their time we have spiraled downwards. I blame it their arrogance and total lack of understanding of the British football market. They have never had any affinity to the club and tried only to use it as an investment vehicle and failed.
As for checking Companies House, nobody has too because everything is regularly posted on here and other supporters websites.
As for most supporters wanting success, of course we do. I hope Coleman can deliver, up until now he hasn't. I'm clutching at the straw that Kaplan and Levien have been putting to many restraints on him and with the new ownership things will be different. |
Ultimately they have to bear responsibility for our fall out of the Prem, but for the most part the decisions that led us to that point were made by Huw Jenkins.
He was the one who initiated our downfall by appointing himself de facto director of football, replaced Laudrup with Monk and allowed him to tear down everything that had been built up until then. Kaplan and Levien mostly let him get on with it and just signed the cheques, and they signed a lot of them. We broke our transfer record numerous times, so a lack of backing wasn't the issue then or now.
The mistake they made was trusting him too much, especially after the Bradley debacle. In hindsight he should have been replaced after the takeover. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 12:49 - Nov 15 with 1079 views | onehunglow |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 12:43 - Nov 15 by Dr_Winston |
Ultimately they have to bear responsibility for our fall out of the Prem, but for the most part the decisions that led us to that point were made by Huw Jenkins.
He was the one who initiated our downfall by appointing himself de facto director of football, replaced Laudrup with Monk and allowed him to tear down everything that had been built up until then. Kaplan and Levien mostly let him get on with it and just signed the cheques, and they signed a lot of them. We broke our transfer record numerous times, so a lack of backing wasn't the issue then or now.
The mistake they made was trusting him too much, especially after the Bradley debacle. In hindsight he should have been replaced after the takeover. |
Fair comment | |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 18:04 - Nov 15 with 958 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
With Welsh ownership the previous fall from the PL or First division ended in a cash crisis and a calamitous fall from grace ending up at the bottom of league 2 and two decades of seriously poor football. This was associated with upset creditors who were not paid.
Swansea stay in the PL was always going to end at some point as has happened to EVERY club Swansea s size.
This did not happen with Kaplan and Levien who have left Swansea as a going concern and new wealthy owners they sourced.
The new owners are LESS experienced not more. At least Coleman has his finger on the pulse of the club and not remote.
The key is keeping the losses under control and developing young players and academy prospects. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 18:51 - Nov 15 with 922 views | QJumpingJack |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 18:04 - Nov 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
With Welsh ownership the previous fall from the PL or First division ended in a cash crisis and a calamitous fall from grace ending up at the bottom of league 2 and two decades of seriously poor football. This was associated with upset creditors who were not paid.
Swansea stay in the PL was always going to end at some point as has happened to EVERY club Swansea s size.
This did not happen with Kaplan and Levien who have left Swansea as a going concern and new wealthy owners they sourced.
The new owners are LESS experienced not more. At least Coleman has his finger on the pulse of the club and not remote.
The key is keeping the losses under control and developing young players and academy prospects. |
The biggest mistake was on day 1 in 2016 when the new owners took over - they promised so much which they did not deliver. It is all on YouTube for you to view.
Check out the FT article from April 2018.
Six weeks later we were gone from the Premier League. | | | |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 19:24 - Nov 15 with 897 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 18:04 - Nov 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
With Welsh ownership the previous fall from the PL or First division ended in a cash crisis and a calamitous fall from grace ending up at the bottom of league 2 and two decades of seriously poor football. This was associated with upset creditors who were not paid.
Swansea stay in the PL was always going to end at some point as has happened to EVERY club Swansea s size.
This did not happen with Kaplan and Levien who have left Swansea as a going concern and new wealthy owners they sourced.
The new owners are LESS experienced not more. At least Coleman has his finger on the pulse of the club and not remote.
The key is keeping the losses under control and developing young players and academy prospects. |
EVERY club except for Brighton and Bournemouth and Brentford | | | |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 19:36 - Nov 15 with 879 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 19:24 - Nov 15 by jack247 |
EVERY club except for Brighton and Bournemouth and Brentford |
Bournemouth were relegated relatively recently. Brighton have huge debts they may in future have to come to terms with
Brentford have not yet matched Swansea s seven years in the PL. Their fate is only a matter of time. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 22:00 - Nov 15 with 806 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 19:36 - Nov 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Bournemouth were relegated relatively recently. Brighton have huge debts they may in future have to come to terms with
Brentford have not yet matched Swansea s seven years in the PL. Their fate is only a matter of time. |
I don’t think many people blame them for our relegation, although replacing Sigurdson with Clucas was symptomatic of their tenure.
It’s more what happened afterwards. Firesale, dismantled the category one academy, sold most of the players it produced and gradually weakened our side season by season. They put us in managed decline and it will take years to get the club back to the position they found it in, if ever.
Not really sure why you want to thank them. | | | |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 09:05 - Nov 16 with 651 views | Dr_Winston |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 22:00 - Nov 15 by jack247 |
I don’t think many people blame them for our relegation, although replacing Sigurdson with Clucas was symptomatic of their tenure.
It’s more what happened afterwards. Firesale, dismantled the category one academy, sold most of the players it produced and gradually weakened our side season by season. They put us in managed decline and it will take years to get the club back to the position they found it in, if ever.
Not really sure why you want to thank them. |
If there had been no "Firesale" and subsequent financial rebalancing, then today there would be no club. Such was the scale of the mismanagement on their behalf. The club was "Haemorrhaging money" is how it was put to me by someone who saw everything.
Huge amounts of future income already committed on transfer fees and salaries with no relegation clauses. We could have racked up a nine figure debt very, very quickly if action had not been taken. All on Jenkins, although as I said earlier, ultimately their fault for not supervising him properly. It's quite ironic to think that if Jenkins had been subject to the same scrutiny as his successors, things might have worked out differently.
Anyway, despite all that they still provided Cooper and Martin with squads good enough to make the playoffs, even if only one of them was competent enough to do so. [Post edited 16 Nov 9:47]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 11:40 - Nov 16 with 547 views | KeithHaynes |
You reap what you sow. | |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 12:45 - Nov 16 with 505 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 09:05 - Nov 16 by Dr_Winston |
If there had been no "Firesale" and subsequent financial rebalancing, then today there would be no club. Such was the scale of the mismanagement on their behalf. The club was "Haemorrhaging money" is how it was put to me by someone who saw everything.
Huge amounts of future income already committed on transfer fees and salaries with no relegation clauses. We could have racked up a nine figure debt very, very quickly if action had not been taken. All on Jenkins, although as I said earlier, ultimately their fault for not supervising him properly. It's quite ironic to think that if Jenkins had been subject to the same scrutiny as his successors, things might have worked out differently.
Anyway, despite all that they still provided Cooper and Martin with squads good enough to make the playoffs, even if only one of them was competent enough to do so. [Post edited 16 Nov 9:47]
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‘There would be no club’ is just untrue.
How many ex Pl clubs have gone to the wall ever? You honestly think we’re the worst run PL club in history? They are as culpable for what Jenkins did under their watch as they are for what subsequent chairmen have done under their watch. Buying a club that is haemorrhaging money, or allowing it to get in that state under your tenure would both be financially ridiculous.
Our squad quality has deteriorated every season since Coopers first. The academy starlets promoted to the first team then sold off for huge money. Academy downgraded so that well is running dry. Unable to sign anyone that practically any other club our size wants because we can’t afford them.
Martin and Cooper had playoff capable squads I agree. Luke Williams will do very well to keep this one in the division assuming he doesn’t get reinforcements in January. | | | |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 13:19 - Nov 16 with 488 views | Dr_Winston |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 12:45 - Nov 16 by jack247 |
‘There would be no club’ is just untrue.
How many ex Pl clubs have gone to the wall ever? You honestly think we’re the worst run PL club in history? They are as culpable for what Jenkins did under their watch as they are for what subsequent chairmen have done under their watch. Buying a club that is haemorrhaging money, or allowing it to get in that state under your tenure would both be financially ridiculous.
Our squad quality has deteriorated every season since Coopers first. The academy starlets promoted to the first team then sold off for huge money. Academy downgraded so that well is running dry. Unable to sign anyone that practically any other club our size wants because we can’t afford them.
Martin and Cooper had playoff capable squads I agree. Luke Williams will do very well to keep this one in the division assuming he doesn’t get reinforcements in January. |
I don't claim to be an expert on everything, but when I tell you that the club was facing an existential crisis that it would not have survived without a serious cutting of costs, I'm stating a fact. Believe it or not that's up to you, but it doesn't make it any less true. Cutting costs also meant that continuing to spend £3m a year on the Academy became highly unlikely.
Personally I'd have kept that going and just offered lower contracts to certain players, but as we've seen this season, cutting our cloth accordingly does little more than provoke whines of protest from the stands.
The squad Martin had available to him in both seasons was the equal to Cooper's first season, unless, for example, you think Tom Carroll, Yan Dhanda or George Byers would be an upgrade on Ntcham or Paterson?
Andre Ayew mostly carried Cooper's team for two seasons. Martin certainly didn't lack for quality in comparison. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 14:00 - Nov 16 with 463 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 13:19 - Nov 16 by Dr_Winston |
I don't claim to be an expert on everything, but when I tell you that the club was facing an existential crisis that it would not have survived without a serious cutting of costs, I'm stating a fact. Believe it or not that's up to you, but it doesn't make it any less true. Cutting costs also meant that continuing to spend £3m a year on the Academy became highly unlikely.
Personally I'd have kept that going and just offered lower contracts to certain players, but as we've seen this season, cutting our cloth accordingly does little more than provoke whines of protest from the stands.
The squad Martin had available to him in both seasons was the equal to Cooper's first season, unless, for example, you think Tom Carroll, Yan Dhanda or George Byers would be an upgrade on Ntcham or Paterson?
Andre Ayew mostly carried Cooper's team for two seasons. Martin certainly didn't lack for quality in comparison. |
Come on, you’re a better poster than picking the worst players under one manager and presenting them as a reasonable comparison to the best players under another.
Across his two seasons, Cooper had the likes of Brewster, Guehi and Gallagher on loan as well as Roberts, Rodon Van der Hoorn and Montero who was far more effective in the championship, when he was fit.
That’s not even accounting for Ayew who was a Premier league player.
For balance, Martin had Piroe, Downes, Ntcham, Darling, Wood. Cabango was a year older and more experienced.
All that aside though, Cooper left the club 3 and a half years ago, Martin 18 months ago. I think Cooper both had the better squad and made the most of the resources at his disposal. Luke Williams quite clearly has a much weaker squad than either of them and that’s what’s relevant now.
If you think we were in a worse state than the likes of Portsmouth shelling out huge money for genuine stars and Bolton, we’ll just have to disagree. | | | |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 16:52 - Nov 16 with 387 views | onehunglow |
Moving on… | |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 17:44 - Nov 16 with 339 views | KeithHaynes |
Yup. | |
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| Russell Martin court case settled on 18:24 - Nov 16 with 286 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin court case settled on 22:00 - Nov 15 by jack247 |
I don’t think many people blame them for our relegation, although replacing Sigurdson with Clucas was symptomatic of their tenure.
It’s more what happened afterwards. Firesale, dismantled the category one academy, sold most of the players it produced and gradually weakened our side season by season. They put us in managed decline and it will take years to get the club back to the position they found it in, if ever.
Not really sure why you want to thank them. |
"Fire sale" is loose emotional language which suggests giving away players at knock down prices. Typical of forums. Swansea got big losses on Clucas half price deals on Fernandez and Ayew J. On the other hand made big profits on Fabianski and Mawson.
People mention firesale repeatedly and it is repeated.
misleading. Loses on Bony Borja and Ayew A were contact run downs.
The wages were slash and Potter was given £7m to spend. He could have bought and paid Ivan Toney but instead chose weakling McKay who not on single fan ever rated and the non tackling full back Declan John. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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