| lLower Loft should not be the family stand 20:03 - May 12 with 9040 views | tiberiuskirk |
I believe strongly that the poor decision to make it so has cost the club in many ways, particularly in atmosphere this season, and Phil Beard having promised to look at the decision again at the fans forum clearly has decided to keep it so for next season. This again I believe is a mistake. Every club needs a hardcore very vocal home end, and the lower loft was just that. This season any singing started in and around R block just died very quickly, in the past it would carry right across the lower loft, and this would encourage other areas around the ground to join in making Loftus Rd feel like a fortress at times. The away fans on many occasions, including today have just taken the piss, and that hurts. I ask MR BEARD / MR FERNANDES think again !! |  |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 12:59 - May 14 with 891 views | QPunkR |
Bosh - my main point being that QPR (and all other clubs) have managed to attract a sizeable collection of fans from childhood during the rest of their history despite not always having family stands. |  |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:04 - May 14 with 875 views | Cliff |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 12:58 - May 14 by daveB |
+1 what he said |
make that +2 |  | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:14 - May 14 with 866 views | A40Bosh |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 12:59 - May 14 by QPunkR |
Bosh - my main point being that QPR (and all other clubs) have managed to attract a sizeable collection of fans from childhood during the rest of their history despite not always having family stands. |
Ok, ignoring whether or not 10K-12K regular attendees at LR before we arrived back in the top flight is really sizeable or not, my point is that we are not talking about history, we are talking about the modern game, in the modern world where things have moved on. Football is now more than the working mans game (some will argue that it is no longer a game away now) and the football terraces should not be for the exclusive ownership of those die hards who insist that once they pay their money then they can retain ancient rights behave exactly as they like and sod everyone else. |  |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:21 - May 14 with 858 views | daveB |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 12:59 - May 14 by QPunkR |
Bosh - my main point being that QPR (and all other clubs) have managed to attract a sizeable collection of fans from childhood during the rest of their history despite not always having family stands. |
QPR have had a family stand in one form or another since the early 1980's |  | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:25 - May 14 with 850 views | toboboly |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:14 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
Ok, ignoring whether or not 10K-12K regular attendees at LR before we arrived back in the top flight is really sizeable or not, my point is that we are not talking about history, we are talking about the modern game, in the modern world where things have moved on. Football is now more than the working mans game (some will argue that it is no longer a game away now) and the football terraces should not be for the exclusive ownership of those die hards who insist that once they pay their money then they can retain ancient rights behave exactly as they like and sod everyone else. |
Surely the same can be said of those who want to change things to suit kids? A balance needs to be found and making the School Lower into a "family area" would sort everyone out. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:25 - May 14 with 850 views | QPunkR |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:14 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
Ok, ignoring whether or not 10K-12K regular attendees at LR before we arrived back in the top flight is really sizeable or not, my point is that we are not talking about history, we are talking about the modern game, in the modern world where things have moved on. Football is now more than the working mans game (some will argue that it is no longer a game away now) and the football terraces should not be for the exclusive ownership of those die hards who insist that once they pay their money then they can retain ancient rights behave exactly as they like and sod everyone else. |
I'm not saying the old 10-12k attendances were sizeable, I was saying all clubs' fans managed to get addicted to their team without the need for a special stand.
Nor am I saying kids and families shouldn't come to football, that's the opposite of what I'm saying.
However, as a fan you know the areas of the ground where there are more of those neanderthals, as you so sweetly put it. So you will be aware not to sit in those areas and centre yourself and your family more towards the more tranquil parts of the ground anyway.
Not all areas of LR/any football ground hold the same knucklehead to johnny-come-lately proportions | |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:32 - May 14 with 838 views | essextaxiboy |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 11:11 - May 13 by Gloucs_R |
Make the School end home fans only
Move away fans into the last two blocks of Ellerslie |
I think this is the answer , not sure about entry and exit routes for away fan though .
HR said its mad to have oppo fans behind the goal |  | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:40 - May 14 with 836 views | A40Bosh |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:25 - May 14 by QPunkR |
I'm not saying the old 10-12k attendances were sizeable, I was saying all clubs' fans managed to get addicted to their team without the need for a special stand.
Nor am I saying kids and families shouldn't come to football, that's the opposite of what I'm saying.
However, as a fan you know the areas of the ground where there are more of those neanderthals, as you so sweetly put it. So you will be aware not to sit in those areas and centre yourself and your family more towards the more tranquil parts of the ground anyway.
Not all areas of LR/any football ground hold the same knucklehead to johnny-come-lately proportions |
Punk,
I would admit that for me part of the problem may be down to the fact that for the past number of years I have had to "stand" in the back or second back rows in SAR, because at 6'3 and being being a bit of a horse, I simply cannot sit in any seat without being in agony for 2 days afterwards. As a result of my being perched above the masses, I am probably able to pick up much more of the negative vibe that permeates along the upper half of SAR and perhaps if I was 5'8 and sat in a decent seat lower down then I would not notice as much. However, until we move to a new stadium I cannot risk moving seats because at least the stewards do not insist you sit down in the back rows. | |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:44 - May 14 with 826 views | QPunkR |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:40 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
Punk,
I would admit that for me part of the problem may be down to the fact that for the past number of years I have had to "stand" in the back or second back rows in SAR, because at 6'3 and being being a bit of a horse, I simply cannot sit in any seat without being in agony for 2 days afterwards. As a result of my being perched above the masses, I am probably able to pick up much more of the negative vibe that permeates along the upper half of SAR and perhaps if I was 5'8 and sat in a decent seat lower down then I would not notice as much. However, until we move to a new stadium I cannot risk moving seats because at least the stewards do not insist you sit down in the back rows. |
Fair enough, I only mentioned South Africa as whenever I sat there before (albeit only a couple of times) there was hardly any atmosphere at all, let alone a sour one!
I also stand at the back, rather than having my knees crushed by our lovely plastic seats, and at the top of Q Block stewards still sometimes try and get us to sit down every once in a while, half-heartedly. It's got a lot better since that horrible little round woman got moved elsewhere/left though, thank Christ | |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 14:37 - May 14 with 817 views | smegma |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 11:40 - May 13 by toboboly |
Anyone stopped to think if we actually need a "family stand"? How many of you needed a family stand in order to start supporting the club?
Exactly, the kids you see around the ground who aren't in the family stand hear lots of swearing so don't give me the whole "oh but their innocent ears can't be offended" carp.
It is in place to get people who wouldn't normally consider going to football to attend and charging them a shed load to do so. There will be loads of them around next season won't there?
If I see any tw@ts with happy clapper shit I will seriously consider force feeding them it.
If you MUST insist on having a place where kids can be contained (rather than a creche in Westfields) then make the School Lower for them and only give the Upper Loft to away fans. |
"only give the Upper Loft to away fans".
Shurely shome mishtake ???
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 14:50 - May 14 with 809 views | SussexR |
Its a mistake to think that by having a Family Stand, in which only people with children can sit, will remove all forms of abusive behaviour. Some of the worst begaviour that I've seen at Loftus Road was from adults who had their kids with them.
The club is worng to forcibly remove fans from the Lower Loft simply because they dont have any children. I dont want to sit in a sterile environment, I want an atmosphere, and I want to sit where I have for many years, the Lower Loft.
But I am in favour of making LR as "Family Friendly" as possible, the kids are our clubs future. Mr Beard just needs to find another way of doing it. And he needs to consult with those who are affected.
Simples!!!! | | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 14:52 - May 14 with 804 views | toboboly |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 14:37 - May 14 by smegma |
"only give the Upper Loft to away fans".
Shurely shome mishtake ???
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My mistake, meant Upper School End. | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 15:35 - May 14 with 788 views | Cliff |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 13:32 - May 14 by essextaxiboy |
I think this is the answer , not sure about entry and exit routes for away fan though .
HR said its mad to have oppo fans behind the goal |
The entire Ellerslie Road enters and exits through 1 turnstile block! | | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:02 - May 14 with 766 views | A40Bosh |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 14:50 - May 14 by SussexR |
Its a mistake to think that by having a Family Stand, in which only people with children can sit, will remove all forms of abusive behaviour. Some of the worst begaviour that I've seen at Loftus Road was from adults who had their kids with them.
The club is worng to forcibly remove fans from the Lower Loft simply because they dont have any children. I dont want to sit in a sterile environment, I want an atmosphere, and I want to sit where I have for many years, the Lower Loft.
But I am in favour of making LR as "Family Friendly" as possible, the kids are our clubs future. Mr Beard just needs to find another way of doing it. And he needs to consult with those who are affected.
Simples!!!! |
and I would agree that my experience of the LL family stand, when I was sat there, was that much of the abusive "behaviour" (and I use the word behaviour to differentiate it from people using occasionally shouting swear words in frustration) came from some of the guys sat around us who were with own kids.
So once again let me stress the difference between my kids hearing "swearing" and them being subjected to an overtly aggressive "atmosphere" at every match which put off my three girls from wanting to attend matches. Most of the worst swear words at the time they would genuinely not have come across in primary school and they would have gone over their heads anyway, but it was the underlying threat of violence around them that freaked them out, all because the ref did not give us a penalty, or an opposition player appeared to carve up one of ours or our own player had the cheek to make a single mistake. A bloke standing in front of us beside his own kids offering out the whole of the away end with the foulest abuse and what he was going to do to them - even though they were a couple of hundred metres away. Pointless, moronic, often drunken yob behaviour; behaviour that some still insist is acceptable because it is within the confines of a football stadium and should be excluded from being subject to the laws of the land.
You wont have a family friendly stadium until such time as you have an area that cultivates an inclusive non threatening environment for younger children to come and enjoy with their parents (well ok "enjoy?" I know we are talking about QPR here).
The start of that is a family friendly area or zone that is set up to provide that atmosphere and those adults who are in that area should be accountable for their general behaviour in that area. If you are in there, these are the rules of acceptable behaviour, stick to them or get kicked out.
I would still argue that removing a family stand and removing a supposed "sterile" environment does not provide an "atmosphere" as a given, unless of course by atmosphere you mean a negative atmosphere, because for most of the last two seasons and for others whilst we were in the Championship and League 1, the atmosphere was as bad as it is now because the product on the pitch, and the off the field antics, have provided nothing but negativity.
So if there is to be a family friendly stand, that is what it should be - friendly. Not everyone going to watch a football match sees it as going to war against the mortal enemy and needs to participate in a hate fest against the opposition and the officials. | |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:27 - May 14 with 752 views | SussexR |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:02 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
and I would agree that my experience of the LL family stand, when I was sat there, was that much of the abusive "behaviour" (and I use the word behaviour to differentiate it from people using occasionally shouting swear words in frustration) came from some of the guys sat around us who were with own kids.
So once again let me stress the difference between my kids hearing "swearing" and them being subjected to an overtly aggressive "atmosphere" at every match which put off my three girls from wanting to attend matches. Most of the worst swear words at the time they would genuinely not have come across in primary school and they would have gone over their heads anyway, but it was the underlying threat of violence around them that freaked them out, all because the ref did not give us a penalty, or an opposition player appeared to carve up one of ours or our own player had the cheek to make a single mistake. A bloke standing in front of us beside his own kids offering out the whole of the away end with the foulest abuse and what he was going to do to them - even though they were a couple of hundred metres away. Pointless, moronic, often drunken yob behaviour; behaviour that some still insist is acceptable because it is within the confines of a football stadium and should be excluded from being subject to the laws of the land.
You wont have a family friendly stadium until such time as you have an area that cultivates an inclusive non threatening environment for younger children to come and enjoy with their parents (well ok "enjoy?" I know we are talking about QPR here).
The start of that is a family friendly area or zone that is set up to provide that atmosphere and those adults who are in that area should be accountable for their general behaviour in that area. If you are in there, these are the rules of acceptable behaviour, stick to them or get kicked out.
I would still argue that removing a family stand and removing a supposed "sterile" environment does not provide an "atmosphere" as a given, unless of course by atmosphere you mean a negative atmosphere, because for most of the last two seasons and for others whilst we were in the Championship and League 1, the atmosphere was as bad as it is now because the product on the pitch, and the off the field antics, have provided nothing but negativity.
So if there is to be a family friendly stand, that is what it should be - friendly. Not everyone going to watch a football match sees it as going to war against the mortal enemy and needs to participate in a hate fest against the opposition and the officials. |
I wouldn't disagree with any of that. When I met the Customer Relations guy (Andy) last Sunday I suggested that they should designate the Family Stand as say one half of the Lower Loft.
The biggest problem is that the club are trying to use the stadium as though its been desigend and built with the 21st centrury in mind, which it obviously isnt.
If the club had only at least tried to discuss with the Season Ticket holders in the Lower Loft BEFORE implementing the policy then I think a compromise could have been found. As it is now, Mr Beard would have to lose face by amending it or reverting, which is probably the biggest problem.
I'm not sure how this is going to be resolved now. | | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 18:02 - May 14 with 741 views | eghamranger |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:27 - May 14 by SussexR |
I wouldn't disagree with any of that. When I met the Customer Relations guy (Andy) last Sunday I suggested that they should designate the Family Stand as say one half of the Lower Loft.
The biggest problem is that the club are trying to use the stadium as though its been desigend and built with the 21st centrury in mind, which it obviously isnt.
If the club had only at least tried to discuss with the Season Ticket holders in the Lower Loft BEFORE implementing the policy then I think a compromise could have been found. As it is now, Mr Beard would have to lose face by amending it or reverting, which is probably the biggest problem.
I'm not sure how this is going to be resolved now. |
Season tickets are out and nearly all gone as per the offs today, so the only way it can get resolved now is if the season ticket holders in the LL agreeing to it being open to anyone.I would think the majority would agree, but if one doesn't it may stop it. I'm in there and it wouldn't bother me, but I've renewed and my child is 15. I would prefer an adult sitting next to me than some screaming kid that fidgits, constantly eats and always out in the bog. |  | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 20:02 - May 14 with 713 views | tiberiuskirk |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:02 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
and I would agree that my experience of the LL family stand, when I was sat there, was that much of the abusive "behaviour" (and I use the word behaviour to differentiate it from people using occasionally shouting swear words in frustration) came from some of the guys sat around us who were with own kids.
So once again let me stress the difference between my kids hearing "swearing" and them being subjected to an overtly aggressive "atmosphere" at every match which put off my three girls from wanting to attend matches. Most of the worst swear words at the time they would genuinely not have come across in primary school and they would have gone over their heads anyway, but it was the underlying threat of violence around them that freaked them out, all because the ref did not give us a penalty, or an opposition player appeared to carve up one of ours or our own player had the cheek to make a single mistake. A bloke standing in front of us beside his own kids offering out the whole of the away end with the foulest abuse and what he was going to do to them - even though they were a couple of hundred metres away. Pointless, moronic, often drunken yob behaviour; behaviour that some still insist is acceptable because it is within the confines of a football stadium and should be excluded from being subject to the laws of the land.
You wont have a family friendly stadium until such time as you have an area that cultivates an inclusive non threatening environment for younger children to come and enjoy with their parents (well ok "enjoy?" I know we are talking about QPR here).
The start of that is a family friendly area or zone that is set up to provide that atmosphere and those adults who are in that area should be accountable for their general behaviour in that area. If you are in there, these are the rules of acceptable behaviour, stick to them or get kicked out.
I would still argue that removing a family stand and removing a supposed "sterile" environment does not provide an "atmosphere" as a given, unless of course by atmosphere you mean a negative atmosphere, because for most of the last two seasons and for others whilst we were in the Championship and League 1, the atmosphere was as bad as it is now because the product on the pitch, and the off the field antics, have provided nothing but negativity.
So if there is to be a family friendly stand, that is what it should be - friendly. Not everyone going to watch a football match sees it as going to war against the mortal enemy and needs to participate in a hate fest against the opposition and the officials. |
A40, you make it sound as if the loft was previously full of the scum of the earth, and now good riddance to them, please enjoy your prawn sandwich, oh and would you like a copy of the times to go with it, just tune in and out of the game as you would at a cricket test match !!
The way it was done was wrong, the whole idea of it was wrong, and now we have a souless, soundless loftus road ....... so sad !! | |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 20:04 - May 14 with 710 views | tiberiuskirk |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:27 - May 14 by SussexR |
I wouldn't disagree with any of that. When I met the Customer Relations guy (Andy) last Sunday I suggested that they should designate the Family Stand as say one half of the Lower Loft.
The biggest problem is that the club are trying to use the stadium as though its been desigend and built with the 21st centrury in mind, which it obviously isnt.
If the club had only at least tried to discuss with the Season Ticket holders in the Lower Loft BEFORE implementing the policy then I think a compromise could have been found. As it is now, Mr Beard would have to lose face by amending it or reverting, which is probably the biggest problem.
I'm not sure how this is going to be resolved now. |
Keep on fighting Sussex, we will, this wrong has to be righted !! | |
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 20:05 - May 14 with 709 views | Rangersw12 |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 17:02 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
and I would agree that my experience of the LL family stand, when I was sat there, was that much of the abusive "behaviour" (and I use the word behaviour to differentiate it from people using occasionally shouting swear words in frustration) came from some of the guys sat around us who were with own kids.
So once again let me stress the difference between my kids hearing "swearing" and them being subjected to an overtly aggressive "atmosphere" at every match which put off my three girls from wanting to attend matches. Most of the worst swear words at the time they would genuinely not have come across in primary school and they would have gone over their heads anyway, but it was the underlying threat of violence around them that freaked them out, all because the ref did not give us a penalty, or an opposition player appeared to carve up one of ours or our own player had the cheek to make a single mistake. A bloke standing in front of us beside his own kids offering out the whole of the away end with the foulest abuse and what he was going to do to them - even though they were a couple of hundred metres away. Pointless, moronic, often drunken yob behaviour; behaviour that some still insist is acceptable because it is within the confines of a football stadium and should be excluded from being subject to the laws of the land.
You wont have a family friendly stadium until such time as you have an area that cultivates an inclusive non threatening environment for younger children to come and enjoy with their parents (well ok "enjoy?" I know we are talking about QPR here).
The start of that is a family friendly area or zone that is set up to provide that atmosphere and those adults who are in that area should be accountable for their general behaviour in that area. If you are in there, these are the rules of acceptable behaviour, stick to them or get kicked out.
I would still argue that removing a family stand and removing a supposed "sterile" environment does not provide an "atmosphere" as a given, unless of course by atmosphere you mean a negative atmosphere, because for most of the last two seasons and for others whilst we were in the Championship and League 1, the atmosphere was as bad as it is now because the product on the pitch, and the off the field antics, have provided nothing but negativity.
So if there is to be a family friendly stand, that is what it should be - friendly. Not everyone going to watch a football match sees it as going to war against the mortal enemy and needs to participate in a hate fest against the opposition and the officials. |
Why don't you try try the neutral end at Fulham if you want that kind of atmosphere  [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:03 - May 14 with 687 views | SussexR |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 20:04 - May 14 by tiberiuskirk |
Keep on fighting Sussex, we will, this wrong has to be righted !! |
I wont give up. What they did and how they did it was just plain wrong.
Beard, his arrogant approach and his ignoring of all communications, followed by saying at the fans forum "if you have a problem just email me" really pi**es me off.
I have zero faith in his ability to run our club, if thats how he behaves. | | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:07 - May 14 with 685 views | daveB |
it's about getting the balance right, there should be a place for the aggressive sort and also a place for people to bring kids and feel safe, i'm not sure why it has to be one or the other | | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:19 - May 14 with 677 views | Match82 |
Let me start by saying that I'm not trying to stir things up here. A lot of people believe that the decision to make the LL a family stand was wrong. Almost everyone believes that the way that they did it was ridiculous and handled with no grace or thought for the people they would be displacing.
This post isn't about whether what they did was right or wrong. Instead, I'm curious as to what people think they should do NOW? Personally, I'd agree that the Paddocks (presumably the East, away from the away fans) would make most sense. But if you remove people from that area to make it a family stand, wouldn't that just annoy other people, just different ones? |  | | |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:20 - May 14 with 676 views | A40Bosh |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:07 - May 14 by daveB |
it's about getting the balance right, there should be a place for the aggressive sort and also a place for people to bring kids and feel safe, i'm not sure why it has to be one or the other |
I agree mate.
It does not have t o be either or.
I am not defending Beard and what he did in the 'LL.
Compromise to make it accessible to all.
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| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:54 - May 14 with 671 views | SussexR |
| lLower Loft should not be the family stand on 23:20 - May 14 by A40Bosh |
I agree mate.
It does not have t o be either or.
I am not defending Beard and what he did in the 'LL.
Compromise to make it accessible to all.
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For me, I would just like the club to acknowledge the mistake and not forcibly move any more people. Then they should try and organise locating those with the smaller children to the SAR side of the Lower Loft. If they want to..
Its always better to get things done voluntarily rather than by force. | | | |
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