| Have heard it all now 08:56 - Jun 11 with 4088 views | kingslandstand1 |
Lord Baden Powell statue in Poole Harbour to be taken down!
Fkn ridiculous 
What is this country coming to. Is the idea to delete all history and start at year dot again |  | | |  |
| Have heard it all now on 11:17 - Jun 11 with 787 views | Sadoldgit |
| Have heard it all now on 11:05 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
What's your point? Is it that in addition to the sentences he received for his crimes, he also deserved to be strangled to death in the street by a policeman - is that it? Just checking. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:06]
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No one says that George Floyd was a saint or a hero. What he is is a victim. |  | | |
| Have heard it all now on 11:26 - Jun 11 with 780 views | Boris_ |
| Have heard it all now on 11:05 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
What's your point? Is it that in addition to the sentences he received for his crimes, he also deserved to be strangled to death in the street by a policeman - is that it? Just checking. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:06]
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So just to get this straight.
You and the other extreme left want Baden Powells statue torn down because you don't agree with some of his views ( which were acceptable during that time ) 150 years ago.
But you are happy to do it in the name of George Floyd.
Would you like me to point out the hypocrisy? [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:26]
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| Have heard it all now on 11:35 - Jun 11 with 772 views | Vagina_Dentata |
| Have heard it all now on 10:59 - Jun 11 by Boris_ |
Your post is quite clearly wondering what the big deal is about. Eradicating history is a huge deal and as a teacher, I am amazed that you appear not to agree. |
You can still go to cubs and scouts, you could even go to some of the remaining libraries before they shut them down. |  |
| you can drink your weak lemon drink now. |
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| Have heard it all now on 11:42 - Jun 11 with 760 views | Bison |
| Have heard it all now on 10:59 - Jun 11 by kernow |
Such a bulging cheek ! |
I know you are a Proud Cornishman Kernow but I'm afraid Humphry Davy will have to go.
He only got to do his full time experimenting because of the wealth of his wife who owned slaves in the West indies. Bugger the Cornish miners lives he saved.
( For those not acquainted with Sir H , he invented the minors safety lamp , but it looks like it was at the cost of many black lives) |  |
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| Have heard it all now on 11:42 - Jun 11 with 758 views | Boris_ |
| Have heard it all now on 11:35 - Jun 11 by Vagina_Dentata |
You can still go to cubs and scouts, you could even go to some of the remaining libraries before they shut them down. |
So you're advocating the removal of history? A strange opinion for a teacher to have.
As for libraries. Does anyone go to them any more and what is the point of them? No wonder they are closing. I don't think I've been to a library since the internet was invented.
94.85 percent of the UK have access to the Internet... [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:43]
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| Have heard it all now on 12:00 - Jun 11 with 722 views | Sadoldgit |
| Have heard it all now on 11:42 - Jun 11 by Boris_ |
So you're advocating the removal of history? A strange opinion for a teacher to have.
As for libraries. Does anyone go to them any more and what is the point of them? No wonder they are closing. I don't think I've been to a library since the internet was invented.
94.85 percent of the UK have access to the Internet... [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:43]
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Removal of history? Perhaps we should put a statue of Hitler next to Baden-Powell?
As for libraries, it would appear that you have not been near one for years. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 12:00 - Jun 11 with 730 views | kernow |
What's the point of libraries?
Oh dear.
Somewhere warm for educated tramps to spend their time? |  | | |
| Have heard it all now on 12:03 - Jun 11 with 722 views | Wints76 |
I still go to a library, and they are also very useful community areas. I had about 3 months out of work 8/9 years ago and the library helped with interview techniques, CV writing 3rd as I hadn't done that for a while. There are also many support groups there. Winchester Library also puts on talks, comedy nights and even gigs. If you want to a library, you may learn something.
Also, re a post earlier, no Statue of Liberty in the UK, eh? Well, I saw this a few years ago when we played at Leicester https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty_(Leicester) |  | | |
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| Have heard it all now on 12:04 - Jun 11 with 718 views | Vagina_Dentata |
| Have heard it all now on 11:42 - Jun 11 by Boris_ |
So you're advocating the removal of history? A strange opinion for a teacher to have.
As for libraries. Does anyone go to them any more and what is the point of them? No wonder they are closing. I don't think I've been to a library since the internet was invented.
94.85 percent of the UK have access to the Internet... [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:43]
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You’re quite happy to get rid of libraries because you have the internet, but you need a statue to remember Baden-Powell. | |
| you can drink your weak lemon drink now. |
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| Have heard it all now on 12:07 - Jun 11 with 712 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 11:26 - Jun 11 by Boris_ |
So just to get this straight.
You and the other extreme left want Baden Powells statue torn down because you don't agree with some of his views ( which were acceptable during that time ) 150 years ago.
But you are happy to do it in the name of George Floyd.
Would you like me to point out the hypocrisy? [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 11:26]
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Have you not been reading my posts. I am happy to have all statues (and happy to throw in all murals too) of any individual removed. No life is perfect, this is not North Korea, and as far as I'm concerned we don't need any of them.
But BLM and the George Floyd stuff is not really about statues or praise. It's about the slow murder in the street of a man by a policeman. You talk about George Floyd being 'celebrated'. He's become famous certainly, but he's not in the news because of any he did in his lifetime. He's in the news because he was yet another black victim of police violence and his death was filmed.
You don't need to celebrate his life but neither does anything that he did in his life change how it ended. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 12:07 - Jun 11 with 712 views | kernow |
| Have heard it all now on 12:03 - Jun 11 by Wints76 |
I still go to a library, and they are also very useful community areas. I had about 3 months out of work 8/9 years ago and the library helped with interview techniques, CV writing 3rd as I hadn't done that for a while. There are also many support groups there. Winchester Library also puts on talks, comedy nights and even gigs. If you want to a library, you may learn something.
Also, re a post earlier, no Statue of Liberty in the UK, eh? Well, I saw this a few years ago when we played at Leicester https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty_(Leicester) |
I like her. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 12:12 - Jun 11 with 704 views | kernow |
Personally, statues don't provoke any emotions whatsoever. Most of them are only useful for dogs to cock their leg up against. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 12:17 - Jun 11 with 689 views | Bison |
| Have heard it all now on 12:07 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
Have you not been reading my posts. I am happy to have all statues (and happy to throw in all murals too) of any individual removed. No life is perfect, this is not North Korea, and as far as I'm concerned we don't need any of them.
But BLM and the George Floyd stuff is not really about statues or praise. It's about the slow murder in the street of a man by a policeman. You talk about George Floyd being 'celebrated'. He's become famous certainly, but he's not in the news because of any he did in his lifetime. He's in the news because he was yet another black victim of police violence and his death was filmed.
You don't need to celebrate his life but neither does anything that he did in his life change how it ended. |
So Statues , murals then next logical step is paintings then.
After your master plan has been implemented the next generation will ask Micheal who ? Micheal De Angelo ? Was he a basketball player ? | |
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| Have heard it all now on 12:36 - Jun 11 with 664 views | SaintNick |
There are probably very few statues up around the world that do not have some controversy or other connected to them.
History has evolved and most major figures in history were men/women of their time be it an Egyptian Pharoah or Winston Churchill.
Take down Colston's statue and you wipe away a piece of history, leave it up and someone will look it up and learn from it.
The truth is that look at those who tore down the statues and there usually followed an oppressive regime and book burning etc.
Accept history, learn from it, do not try to efface it |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Have heard it all now on 12:45 - Jun 11 with 643 views | Sadoldgit |
Apparently they had been arguing over changing the text for something more appropriate on the plaque for some time. It’s a shame that they couldn’t sort it out as it might have prevented to current trend. At least it is now being discussed as a matter of urgency. I would like to see a modern context on these plaques so that we can learn from them. We also need to listen to those who are effected by the statues. I am sure white people walk past many statues everyday and don’t have a clue who the people are and why the statues are there (apart from the obvious ones like Nelson). | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 12:46 - Jun 11 with 648 views | cmonusaints |
| Have heard it all now on 12:36 - Jun 11 by SaintNick |
There are probably very few statues up around the world that do not have some controversy or other connected to them.
History has evolved and most major figures in history were men/women of their time be it an Egyptian Pharoah or Winston Churchill.
Take down Colston's statue and you wipe away a piece of history, leave it up and someone will look it up and learn from it.
The truth is that look at those who tore down the statues and there usually followed an oppressive regime and book burning etc.
Accept history, learn from it, do not try to efface it |
‘Every record had been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture had been repainted, every statue and street building had been renamed, every date had been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right'.
George Orwell -1984. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 12:56 - Jun 11 with 626 views | Vagina_Dentata |
| Have heard it all now on 12:36 - Jun 11 by SaintNick |
There are probably very few statues up around the world that do not have some controversy or other connected to them.
History has evolved and most major figures in history were men/women of their time be it an Egyptian Pharoah or Winston Churchill.
Take down Colston's statue and you wipe away a piece of history, leave it up and someone will look it up and learn from it.
The truth is that look at those who tore down the statues and there usually followed an oppressive regime and book burning etc.
Accept history, learn from it, do not try to efface it |
There is no book burning. This is not even remotely close to book burning. Colston and Baden-Powell are not being erased from history. Little Britain has not been erased from history. Removing a statue is not removing access to knowledge and history. | |
| you can drink your weak lemon drink now. |
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| Have heard it all now on 13:07 - Jun 11 with 613 views | SaintNick |
| Have heard it all now on 12:56 - Jun 11 by Vagina_Dentata |
There is no book burning. This is not even remotely close to book burning. Colston and Baden-Powell are not being erased from history. Little Britain has not been erased from history. Removing a statue is not removing access to knowledge and history. |
There was no statue pulling down two weeks ago, removing a statue is not removing access to knowledge or history, but if you don't know it exists how can you look it up.
I don't know if a book has been burned or not, but I am sure that we will see one or two soon
I wasn't that bothered about the statues being pulled down, but when I saw the whooping mob that leaped on it like a pack of starving dogs, it worried me that people could behave like that.
A few years back we could all make a comment on message boards or social media and have a debate, now I see people being abused because they dared to say they voted Tory or they thought that Churchill was a hero for his part in WW2, now I see people sneer and say things like "Little Britain has not been erased from history" | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Have heard it all now on 13:17 - Jun 11 with 599 views | Vagina_Dentata |
| Have heard it all now on 13:07 - Jun 11 by SaintNick |
There was no statue pulling down two weeks ago, removing a statue is not removing access to knowledge or history, but if you don't know it exists how can you look it up.
I don't know if a book has been burned or not, but I am sure that we will see one or two soon
I wasn't that bothered about the statues being pulled down, but when I saw the whooping mob that leaped on it like a pack of starving dogs, it worried me that people could behave like that.
A few years back we could all make a comment on message boards or social media and have a debate, now I see people being abused because they dared to say they voted Tory or they thought that Churchill was a hero for his part in WW2, now I see people sneer and say things like "Little Britain has not been erased from history" |
That really wasn’t sneering, Nick. You’re a clever bloke. It’s part of the conversation we’re having. | |
| you can drink your weak lemon drink now. |
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| Have heard it all now on 13:19 - Jun 11 with 588 views | Sadoldgit |
It comes back to freedom of speech and expression. I am sure that we all think that it is a good thing but maybe not so much if that involves people perpetuating the myth of white superiority or racial hatred. Was it one of Newton’s laws that said that every action had an equal and opposite reaction? Things have been too far one way for way too long. It appears that they are going too far the other way for some and that will probably be the case for a while while we try and figure out how to get to some central ground. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 13:28 - Jun 11 with 582 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 12:17 - Jun 11 by Bison |
So Statues , murals then next logical step is paintings then.
After your master plan has been implemented the next generation will ask Micheal who ? Micheal De Angelo ? Was he a basketball player ? |
No, nice try, but a very silly argument.
A statue (or mural - in the context that I am using) is a very specific thing intended to PUBLICLY praise or commemorate the life of an individual. Books and works of art are very different - they are complex, they can deal with ambiguity and they are first and foremost (if any good) about truth.
The reason I would take them all down is that while at previous points in history societies were so culturally homogenous that everyone could agree on who should be publicly praised (or where a view about that could be forced on everyone - e.g. North Korea) views are much more diverse now - so statues can more easily cause division, or emphasise exclusion (from the dominant opinion).
If they are taken down from places of public celebration and put in museums, they can still play a role in teaching history - both of the thing that is being celebrated and the people doing the celebrating.
Momento Park in Budapest is a perfect example of how it can be done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park | |
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| Have heard it all now on 13:40 - Jun 11 with 568 views | Bison |
| Have heard it all now on 13:28 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
No, nice try, but a very silly argument.
A statue (or mural - in the context that I am using) is a very specific thing intended to PUBLICLY praise or commemorate the life of an individual. Books and works of art are very different - they are complex, they can deal with ambiguity and they are first and foremost (if any good) about truth.
The reason I would take them all down is that while at previous points in history societies were so culturally homogenous that everyone could agree on who should be publicly praised (or where a view about that could be forced on everyone - e.g. North Korea) views are much more diverse now - so statues can more easily cause division, or emphasise exclusion (from the dominant opinion).
If they are taken down from places of public celebration and put in museums, they can still play a role in teaching history - both of the thing that is being celebrated and the people doing the celebrating.
Momento Park in Budapest is a perfect example of how it can be done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park |
Oh Budapest ?
So you can use examples of other countries when it suits your agenda.
You are a strange one Ian. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 13:43 - Jun 11 with 566 views | Bicester_North |
| Have heard it all now on 13:28 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
No, nice try, but a very silly argument.
A statue (or mural - in the context that I am using) is a very specific thing intended to PUBLICLY praise or commemorate the life of an individual. Books and works of art are very different - they are complex, they can deal with ambiguity and they are first and foremost (if any good) about truth.
The reason I would take them all down is that while at previous points in history societies were so culturally homogenous that everyone could agree on who should be publicly praised (or where a view about that could be forced on everyone - e.g. North Korea) views are much more diverse now - so statues can more easily cause division, or emphasise exclusion (from the dominant opinion).
If they are taken down from places of public celebration and put in museums, they can still play a role in teaching history - both of the thing that is being celebrated and the people doing the celebrating.
Momento Park in Budapest is a perfect example of how it can be done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park |
Hungary was occupied by an oppressive power in the 20th century though. Can’t really compare the UK with that. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 13:50 - Jun 11 with 555 views | Sadoldgit |
I’m surprised that no one has suggested banning that dreadfully arctic song “Land of Hope and Glory” yet. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 13:58 - Jun 11 with 551 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 13:40 - Jun 11 by Bison |
Oh Budapest ?
So you can use examples of other countries when it suits your agenda.
You are a strange one Ian. |
What are you talking about? On what basis should I not be proving an example of where statues have been successfully placed in a museum? What unwritten rule (apparently of my own making) have I broken now?! [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 14:03]
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