| Have heard it all now 08:56 - Jun 11 with 4089 views | kingslandstand1 |
Lord Baden Powell statue in Poole Harbour to be taken down!
Fkn ridiculous 
What is this country coming to. Is the idea to delete all history and start at year dot again |  | | |  |
| Have heard it all now on 14:01 - Jun 11 with 920 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 13:43 - Jun 11 by Bicester_North |
Hungary was occupied by an oppressive power in the 20th century though. Can’t really compare the UK with that. |
I'm not comparing the UK with Hungary.
I'm giving you a good example of where statues erected in one period in history were taken down and put in a museum.
You can look at it this way if you like...if it worked in a country like Hungary where they had perhaps more reason to want to blow up the statues, could it maybe also work successfully here? |  |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:07 - Jun 11 with 919 views | Bison |
| Have heard it all now on 13:58 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
What are you talking about? On what basis should I not be proving an example of where statues have been successfully placed in a museum? What unwritten rule (apparently of my own making) have I broken now?! [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 14:03]
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Earlier today, remember ?
" Statue of Liberty not in the UK - outside my jurisdiction.
Any others? "
Hungary must be in your jurisdiction I presume. |  |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:21 - Jun 11 with 898 views | Bicester_North |
| Have heard it all now on 14:01 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
I'm not comparing the UK with Hungary.
I'm giving you a good example of where statues erected in one period in history were taken down and put in a museum.
You can look at it this way if you like...if it worked in a country like Hungary where they had perhaps more reason to want to blow up the statues, could it maybe also work successfully here? |
They were all communist statues, so represented a regime that crushed Hungary.
Where do you draw the line with statues in the UK that represent many different things to many different people? Much more ambiguity of views that could cause more division and anger. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:29 - Jun 11 with 889 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 14:07 - Jun 11 by Bison |
Earlier today, remember ?
" Statue of Liberty not in the UK - outside my jurisdiction.
Any others? "
Hungary must be in your jurisdiction I presume. |
Oh dear...
The jurisdictional point was a throwaway about me (in the UK) not having the power to set my statue rules for the yanks. It does not rule out me ever referring to a foreign country again.
Please don't turn into TCM. Twisting arguments is not big, or clever. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:37 - Jun 11 with 883 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 14:21 - Jun 11 by Bicester_North |
They were all communist statues, so represented a regime that crushed Hungary.
Where do you draw the line with statues in the UK that represent many different things to many different people? Much more ambiguity of views that could cause more division and anger. |
My point wasn't that they were taken down. It was that they were put in a museum.
I appreciate that it was a lot easier - given the history - for most Hungarians to agree to take them down. But, for the same reason, you could also have forgiven them if they had melted them all down. They didn't. They put them in a museum.
I'm saying (1) take them all down - who needs stupid statues in this day and age and (2) if they're historically relevant, put them in a museum like the Hungarians did. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:46 - Jun 11 with 881 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| Have heard it all now on 10:59 - Jun 11 by Sadoldgit |
It’s no bad thing to have a review about the people we have honoured with a statue over the years. I agree with the black guy yesterday though who says leave them there but add plaques with the full details of what these people did so we have the full picture. You can eradicate their images but you can’t eradicate history and it is good to know the stories. This country was built on slavery (as were others). We need to acknowledge that. |
What about the Roman Empire?
That had FAR more slaves across Europe - which they used to build their empire and treat like sh*t. 1 in 3, 1 in 4 or something like that was a slave.
Yet we all go and look round Rome in awe, we all go to Roman places in this country and look in awe.
Why are we not demanding the apology of modern day Italians for their past? |  |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:47 - Jun 11 with 881 views | Bazza |
| Have heard it all now on 13:50 - Jun 11 by Sadoldgit |
I’m surprised that no one has suggested banning that dreadfully arctic song “Land of Hope and Glory” yet. |
or banning the dirge 'God save our gracious Queen/King'.
On the original point; revisionist historians in recent years are constantly trying to change historical facts. Removing statues does not alter the fact that the slave trade was acceptable to many 18th century folks in England. It's called History. Nothing to apologise for, we weren't there (The killing of an 21st century black American does not change that, it's irrelevant).
If the MAJORITY of people now don't like certain statues the authorities should pull them down. No big deal. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 14:48 - Jun 11 with 877 views | Bicester_North |
| Have heard it all now on 14:37 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
My point wasn't that they were taken down. It was that they were put in a museum.
I appreciate that it was a lot easier - given the history - for most Hungarians to agree to take them down. But, for the same reason, you could also have forgiven them if they had melted them all down. They didn't. They put them in a museum.
I'm saying (1) take them all down - who needs stupid statues in this day and age and (2) if they're historically relevant, put them in a museum like the Hungarians did. |
Well that’s your view, but the UK is world famous for its history, and statues represent that to a lot of people who live here and who come from abroad.
Just taking them all down as a result of the killing of somebody in the USA would just be weird. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:50 - Jun 11 with 876 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| Have heard it all now on 12:36 - Jun 11 by SaintNick |
There are probably very few statues up around the world that do not have some controversy or other connected to them.
History has evolved and most major figures in history were men/women of their time be it an Egyptian Pharoah or Winston Churchill.
Take down Colston's statue and you wipe away a piece of history, leave it up and someone will look it up and learn from it.
The truth is that look at those who tore down the statues and there usually followed an oppressive regime and book burning etc.
Accept history, learn from it, do not try to efface it |
This, this and this!
How do people learn in the future? You see the statue as a child, you learn about it and maybe it's chequered past (if there is one) and the child asks "why is there a statue then?"
The provider of the answer can say "because the world evolved very quickly in the 19th to 21st centuries and viewpoints changed, but it's important that we acknowledge the past to understand that".
Leave it all to Wikipedia and no one will ever know. I'll be honest, I had never heard of Edward Colston until 2 weeks ago. Now I know, thanks to a statue. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 14:57 - Jun 11 with 851 views | Sadoldgit |
| Have heard it all now on 14:47 - Jun 11 by Bazza |
or banning the dirge 'God save our gracious Queen/King'.
On the original point; revisionist historians in recent years are constantly trying to change historical facts. Removing statues does not alter the fact that the slave trade was acceptable to many 18th century folks in England. It's called History. Nothing to apologise for, we weren't there (The killing of an 21st century black American does not change that, it's irrelevant).
If the MAJORITY of people now don't like certain statues the authorities should pull them down. No big deal. |
I’m with you on the National Anthem. I always thought that “I Vow To The My Country” would make a better National Anthem. Her Maj must be sick to death if it. |  | | |
| Have heard it all now on 15:05 - Jun 11 with 847 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 14:48 - Jun 11 by Bicester_North |
Well that’s your view, but the UK is world famous for its history, and statues represent that to a lot of people who live here and who come from abroad.
Just taking them all down as a result of the killing of somebody in the USA would just be weird. |
I appreciate that it's an extreme view. And I am not about to start a campaign for it.
A less extreme variation on the same thing would be: If a statue is causing a problem for a significant number of people, let's not get too hung up about keeping it. Statues are not that important and there's a very simple compromise of putting them in a museum if they really are considered to be of historical significance. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 15:24 - Jun 11 with 830 views | Sadoldgit |
It is interesting to hear that conversations about certain statues have been going on for ages behind the scenes. It’s just a shame that it takes the death of a man in another country before people are motivated enough to take some action. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 15:31 - Jun 11 with 828 views | DorsetIan |
| Have heard it all now on 15:24 - Jun 11 by Sadoldgit |
It is interesting to hear that conversations about certain statues have been going on for ages behind the scenes. It’s just a shame that it takes the death of a man in another country before people are motivated enough to take some action. |
Too many hurdles I think. planning committees, listed status, divided community views, 'heritage' lobby, local politicians worried about losing votes. Hard to shake up the status quo in any country without a spot of civil disobedience. | |
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| Have heard it all now on 15:36 - Jun 11 with 828 views | Bazza |
| Have heard it all now on 14:57 - Jun 11 by Sadoldgit |
I’m with you on the National Anthem. I always thought that “I Vow To The My Country” would make a better National Anthem. Her Maj must be sick to death if it. |
Great Shout! I just played 'I vow........ and it brought a tear to my eye.
Also, to be topical, Gustav Holst the composer has a statue in Cheltenham. According to Wiki, Holst was British but had Swedish, Russian and other European ancestors so everyone could be happy with that choice.
Should we start a campaign to adopt it? | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 15:41 - Jun 11 with 812 views | Sadoldgit |
| Have heard it all now on 15:36 - Jun 11 by Bazza |
Great Shout! I just played 'I vow........ and it brought a tear to my eye.
Also, to be topical, Gustav Holst the composer has a statue in Cheltenham. According to Wiki, Holst was British but had Swedish, Russian and other European ancestors so everyone could be happy with that choice.
Should we start a campaign to adopt it? |
Absolutely!!! The music is awesome and who could find fault with the lyrics? [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 15:44]
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| Have heard it all now on 15:50 - Jun 11 with 802 views | Sadoldgit |
| Have heard it all now on 15:31 - Jun 11 by DorsetIan |
Too many hurdles I think. planning committees, listed status, divided community views, 'heritage' lobby, local politicians worried about losing votes. Hard to shake up the status quo in any country without a spot of civil disobedience. |
Sadly you are right. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 16:42 - Jun 11 with 782 views | 1885_SFC |
One of my favourite statues. My partner's father was a commando in WWII and has a Fairbairn—Sykes (commando fighting knife) carved on the head stone of his grave. He saw action in Italy and I used to love listening to his tales when he was alive (and when there were no women present in the room!).
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| Have heard it all now on 16:57 - Jun 11 with 773 views | thissceptredsaint |
| Have heard it all now on 09:55 - Jun 11 by grumpy |
What would Rome look like if they tore down their statues of emperors that persecuted Christians or enslaved other nations? |
They did quite often as a matter of fact. They were very practically minded and melted them down for coins etc |  | | |
| Have heard it all now on 17:12 - Jun 11 with 767 views | cocklebreath |
Ted Bates once called a black man coloured, I expect to see the statue taken down immediately. Fuming how could he? |  |
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| Have heard it all now on 17:31 - Jun 11 with 752 views | Sadoldgit |
| Have heard it all now on 17:12 - Jun 11 by cocklebreath |
Ted Bates once called a black man coloured, I expect to see the statue taken down immediately. Fuming how could he? |
Technically I guess he is right. Black people are no more black than we are white. | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 17:50 - Jun 11 with 736 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Have heard it all now on 17:12 - Jun 11 by cocklebreath |
Ted Bates once called a black man coloured, I expect to see the statue taken down immediately. Fuming how could he? |
On a serious one on that subject, quite a few years ago there was a guy of "foreign descent" who was a decent bloke and "part of the gang" and would talk seriously about his heritage etc if it came up in conversation and someone innocently asked whether "coloured blokes get suntans as Caucasians do?"
No issues with the question but his response was that he "wasn't coloured, he was black, what do you think I am, green, orange, yellow! etc"
The answer by the way was yes | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 17:52 - Jun 11 with 736 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Have heard it all now on 17:31 - Jun 11 by Sadoldgit |
Technically I guess he is right. Black people are no more black than we are white. |
And the guy I was talking about, well I'd have said his skin colour was more brown that black! He was of "mixed race" if we're allowed to say that and curiously he had younger twin brothers who were white! | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 18:15 - Jun 11 with 715 views | Sadoldgit |
My family have dark hair,olive skin and tan quickly. My brother used to be called Mowgli when he was a kid.
We used to think that we had French heritage but it turns out we originated from Germany in the 17th century! | | | |
| Have heard it all now on 18:26 - Jun 11 with 704 views | dirk_doone |
At least the pyramids are safe, although Mayflower memorials may be coming under threat soon:
"White folks was in the caves while we was building empires, We built pyramids before Donald Trump even knew what architecture was. We taught philosophy and astrology [sic] and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it. Do some cracker come and tell you, 'Well my mother and father blood go back to the Mayflower,' you better hold your pocket. That ain't nothing to be proud of, that means their forefathers was crooks." Al Sharpton. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 18:29]
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| Have heard it all now on 20:45 - Jun 11 with 615 views | kernow |
Strangest thing I ever saw was a man in Martinique who had tight curly ginger hair, blue eyes, a fine pronounced caucasian nose, full lips typical of negro folk. His skin was brown and white like a piebald pony. | | | |
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