| This is Brexit on 14:53 - Jul 21 with 1887 views | Sadoldgit |
Cummings made an interesting point during his interview on the BBC last night. Despite managing the campaign to leave, he said very clearly that no one knew at the time how leaving the UK would effect the country. It’s a shame they didn’t tell us that at the time rather than pretending that everything would be better. |  | |  |
| This is Brexit on 15:29 - Jul 21 with 1869 views | DorsetIan |
| This is Brexit on 14:53 - Jul 21 by Sadoldgit |
Cummings made an interesting point during his interview on the BBC last night. Despite managing the campaign to leave, he said very clearly that no one knew at the time how leaving the UK would effect the country. It’s a shame they didn’t tell us that at the time rather than pretending that everything would be better. |
He also pretty much admitted that the guff about the £350m and Turkey being about to join the EU were lies, simply designed to provoke.
The other thing we learned last night was just how committed to democracy the vote leave lot really were - i.e. not at all.
Noone who voted to leave should feel in any way mugged off, of course. It was just a bit of harmless fibbing. |  |
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| This is Brexit on 16:55 - Jul 21 with 1839 views | Sadoldgit |
He talked a good game about needing a better political system but didn’t seem to have a problem with hoodwinking the public in order to secure more votes and seems to think that he is the sole arbiter of who should decide what is best for the UK. No elected mandate yet he sees himself as above the PM and Parliament. It’s all very well calling MPs morons and clowns and the PM a shopping trolley but he seems to have zero self awareness about his own shortcomings. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 17:10 - Jul 21 with 1831 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 15:29 - Jul 21 by DorsetIan |
He also pretty much admitted that the guff about the £350m and Turkey being about to join the EU were lies, simply designed to provoke.
The other thing we learned last night was just how committed to democracy the vote leave lot really were - i.e. not at all.
Noone who voted to leave should feel in any way mugged off, of course. It was just a bit of harmless fibbing. |
If they were not committed to democracy, how did they hope to, and achieve a victory then? When was scaremongering not part of the UK election process? The Labour party have pretended that the Conservatives will privatise the NHS at every single election since the Thatcher years. (And Gordon Brown brought about the biggest influx of private capital into the NHS in all time).Despite this, with around 2/3 of the intervening years being Tory rule, the NHS has not been privatised. You cannot conflate election propaganda with disrespect for democracy unless you are prepared to say that it is rife throughout UK politics. Look at the SNP stating categorically that Scotland will be better off economically as an independent nation when every respectable forecasting body says the opposite.
Everyone gave their opinions, but it is correct to say, nobody knew for sure. In the same way remainers (and I voted to remain) could not adequately explain the benefits of how everyman would be better off by staying in. The economic projections said so, but they were just that, not facts. The sea change will take several years to shake out. Most of the disbenefits are because the EU wants to punish us for leaving the table without their permission. eg the ridiculous amount of goods testing they are trying to impose for goods from UK to N Ireland, compared to goods entering the EU from every other non EU source. They will get over it eventually if they can ignore the French jealousy at every UK success. |  | | |
| This is Brexit on 18:53 - Jul 21 with 1792 views | DorsetIan |
| This is Brexit on 17:10 - Jul 21 by Berber |
If they were not committed to democracy, how did they hope to, and achieve a victory then? When was scaremongering not part of the UK election process? The Labour party have pretended that the Conservatives will privatise the NHS at every single election since the Thatcher years. (And Gordon Brown brought about the biggest influx of private capital into the NHS in all time).Despite this, with around 2/3 of the intervening years being Tory rule, the NHS has not been privatised. You cannot conflate election propaganda with disrespect for democracy unless you are prepared to say that it is rife throughout UK politics. Look at the SNP stating categorically that Scotland will be better off economically as an independent nation when every respectable forecasting body says the opposite.
Everyone gave their opinions, but it is correct to say, nobody knew for sure. In the same way remainers (and I voted to remain) could not adequately explain the benefits of how everyman would be better off by staying in. The economic projections said so, but they were just that, not facts. The sea change will take several years to shake out. Most of the disbenefits are because the EU wants to punish us for leaving the table without their permission. eg the ridiculous amount of goods testing they are trying to impose for goods from UK to N Ireland, compared to goods entering the EU from every other non EU source. They will get over it eventually if they can ignore the French jealousy at every UK success. |
Did you watch the interview? | |
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| This is Brexit on 18:56 - Jul 21 with 1790 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 17:10 - Jul 21 by Berber |
If they were not committed to democracy, how did they hope to, and achieve a victory then? When was scaremongering not part of the UK election process? The Labour party have pretended that the Conservatives will privatise the NHS at every single election since the Thatcher years. (And Gordon Brown brought about the biggest influx of private capital into the NHS in all time).Despite this, with around 2/3 of the intervening years being Tory rule, the NHS has not been privatised. You cannot conflate election propaganda with disrespect for democracy unless you are prepared to say that it is rife throughout UK politics. Look at the SNP stating categorically that Scotland will be better off economically as an independent nation when every respectable forecasting body says the opposite.
Everyone gave their opinions, but it is correct to say, nobody knew for sure. In the same way remainers (and I voted to remain) could not adequately explain the benefits of how everyman would be better off by staying in. The economic projections said so, but they were just that, not facts. The sea change will take several years to shake out. Most of the disbenefits are because the EU wants to punish us for leaving the table without their permission. eg the ridiculous amount of goods testing they are trying to impose for goods from UK to N Ireland, compared to goods entering the EU from every other non EU source. They will get over it eventually if they can ignore the French jealousy at every UK success. |
The EU will get over it eventually, I wonder if we will. |  | | |
| This is Brexit on 18:59 - Jul 21 with 1788 views | Sadoldgit |
| This is Brexit on 17:10 - Jul 21 by Berber |
If they were not committed to democracy, how did they hope to, and achieve a victory then? When was scaremongering not part of the UK election process? The Labour party have pretended that the Conservatives will privatise the NHS at every single election since the Thatcher years. (And Gordon Brown brought about the biggest influx of private capital into the NHS in all time).Despite this, with around 2/3 of the intervening years being Tory rule, the NHS has not been privatised. You cannot conflate election propaganda with disrespect for democracy unless you are prepared to say that it is rife throughout UK politics. Look at the SNP stating categorically that Scotland will be better off economically as an independent nation when every respectable forecasting body says the opposite.
Everyone gave their opinions, but it is correct to say, nobody knew for sure. In the same way remainers (and I voted to remain) could not adequately explain the benefits of how everyman would be better off by staying in. The economic projections said so, but they were just that, not facts. The sea change will take several years to shake out. Most of the disbenefits are because the EU wants to punish us for leaving the table without their permission. eg the ridiculous amount of goods testing they are trying to impose for goods from UK to N Ireland, compared to goods entering the EU from every other non EU source. They will get over it eventually if they can ignore the French jealousy at every UK success. |
There was an article the other day about how the NHS is already being privatised through the back door. I’ll see if I can find it. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 19:45 - Jul 21 with 1761 views | Sadoldgit |
Argh! Can’t copy and paste! How do I copy a thread into this box? | | | |
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| This is Brexit on 19:55 - Jul 21 with 1753 views | JaySaint |
| This is Brexit on 18:59 - Jul 21 by Sadoldgit |
There was an article the other day about how the NHS is already being privatised through the back door. I’ll see if I can find it. |
Can't be, Labour are not in power | |
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| This is Brexit on 20:09 - Jul 21 with 1749 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 19:45 - Jul 21 by Sadoldgit |
Argh! Can’t copy and paste! How do I copy a thread into this box? |
I know what you mean, that and BBC articles.😯 | | | |
| This is Brexit on 20:43 - Jul 21 with 1737 views | Bison |
| This is Brexit on 18:59 - Jul 21 by Sadoldgit |
There was an article the other day about how the NHS is already being privatised through the back door. I’ll see if I can find it. |
I knew a gynaecologist who wall papered his hallway through his letterbox. |  |
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| This is Brexit on 21:38 - Jul 21 with 1695 views | grumpy |
How would we feel if the IOW was Spanish? | | | |
| This is Brexit on 21:43 - Jul 21 with 1689 views | JaySaint |
| This is Brexit on 21:38 - Jul 21 by grumpy |
How would we feel if the IOW was Spanish? |
but it isn't? | |
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| This is Brexit on 21:51 - Jul 21 with 1684 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 21:43 - Jul 21 by JaySaint |
but it isn't? |
You don't say, well I never knew that lol | | | |
| This is Brexit on 22:51 - Jul 21 with 1667 views | 1885_SFC |
Gib is a deep water port that's at the very gate of the Mediterranean. It's strategic value to the RN and the Yanks is second to none. It will never be handed over to the EU/Spain no matter what bully boy tactics they THINK they can employ. |  |
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| This is Brexit on 23:54 - Jul 21 with 1655 views | Bison |
| This is Brexit on 21:38 - Jul 21 by grumpy |
How would we feel if the IOW was Spanish? |
That would be great , anywhere with a PO postcode would be a better place to be then what it is like now. | |
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| This is Brexit on 06:40 - Jul 22 with 1621 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 19:45 - Jul 21 by Sadoldgit |
Argh! Can’t copy and paste! How do I copy a thread into this box? |
If you copy and paste into Word, then copy and paste it from Word it may work. I think I have done that before. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 16:23 - Aug 19 with 1504 views | dirk_doone |
| This is Brexit on 13:51 - Jan 22 by dirk_doone |
We've lost a lot of the free trade agreements that the EU had with other countries. I wonder if it's going to affect amazon deliveries as well because a lot of them came from the EU.
Trump and Boris were supposedly going to reach a great new trade agreement but the negotiations got bogged down so it never happened. [Post edited 22 Jan 2021 14:07]
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" I wonder if it's going to affect amazon deliveries?"
Well, I did wonder:
Even amazon pime deliveries from Europe are taking longer now because of the Brexit paperwork and queues at customs:
Package departed an Amazon facility
Casirate d’Adda (BG), Lombardy IT
Initiated customs clearance process
Tilbury, United Kingdom
Package arrived at an Amazon facility
Bergamo, Lombardy IT
Initiated customs clearance process
Mouscron, BE
Interestingly they started the UK clearance process before they did the one in Belgium, perhaps because it takes longer. The package is still in Belgium.
For small businesses and their drivers, the Brexit bureacracy must cause real problems. One of the big problems is that they are struggling to find drivers prepared to deliver goods to and from Europe because of all the paperwork and queueing involved now.
Another Brexit problem that is beginning to bite is that a lot of the EU workers who were doing dirty and poorly paid jobs in this country have left and they can't find replacements. Our local waste disposal was largely staffed by Polish workers. We've now been informed that due to a shortage of workers, garden waste collection has been temporarily suspended. [Post edited 19 Aug 2021 17:22]
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| This is Brexit on 17:15 - Aug 19 with 1454 views | DorsetIan |
| This is Brexit on 16:23 - Aug 19 by dirk_doone |
" I wonder if it's going to affect amazon deliveries?"
Well, I did wonder:
Even amazon pime deliveries from Europe are taking longer now because of the Brexit paperwork and queues at customs:
Package departed an Amazon facility
Casirate d’Adda (BG), Lombardy IT
Initiated customs clearance process
Tilbury, United Kingdom
Package arrived at an Amazon facility
Bergamo, Lombardy IT
Initiated customs clearance process
Mouscron, BE
Interestingly they started the UK clearance process before they did the one in Belgium, perhaps because it takes longer. The package is still in Belgium.
For small businesses and their drivers, the Brexit bureacracy must cause real problems. One of the big problems is that they are struggling to find drivers prepared to deliver goods to and from Europe because of all the paperwork and queueing involved now.
Another Brexit problem that is beginning to bite is that a lot of the EU workers who were doing dirty and poorly paid jobs in this country have left and they can't find replacements. Our local waste disposal was largely staffed by Polish workers. We've now been informed that due to a shortage of workers, garden waste collection has been temporarily suspended. [Post edited 19 Aug 2021 17:22]
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That leavers moaned and moaned about 'Brussels Bureaucrats' and then signed up for a world of bureaucracy is pretty tragic.
The leaders who pushed for Brexit couldn't give a sh!t about it because (a) they've never had to fill a form in in their lives and (b) if they did, they'd get someone else to do it. | |
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| This is Brexit on 17:50 - Aug 19 with 1432 views | Bazza |
| This is Brexit on 17:15 - Aug 19 by DorsetIan |
That leavers moaned and moaned about 'Brussels Bureaucrats' and then signed up for a world of bureaucracy is pretty tragic.
The leaders who pushed for Brexit couldn't give a sh!t about it because (a) they've never had to fill a form in in their lives and (b) if they did, they'd get someone else to do it. |
Think you’re losing it again Ian. It’s true that nobody expected the bitter EU to behave so childishly impacting their own exports. I still expect paperwork will become more automatic once the processes and COVID impact lessen. I certainly remember the nightmare called VAT in EU when product origin docs.were introduced.
Your last paragraph is pure rage and supposition, maybe you’ve not been aware before. In my case, when we were still in EU, others did fill in the forms. That’s management for you whatever the trading arrangements. The logistics folk will have the expertise. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 22:26 - Aug 19 with 1390 views | DorsetIan |
| This is Brexit on 17:50 - Aug 19 by Bazza |
Think you’re losing it again Ian. It’s true that nobody expected the bitter EU to behave so childishly impacting their own exports. I still expect paperwork will become more automatic once the processes and COVID impact lessen. I certainly remember the nightmare called VAT in EU when product origin docs.were introduced.
Your last paragraph is pure rage and supposition, maybe you’ve not been aware before. In my case, when we were still in EU, others did fill in the forms. That’s management for you whatever the trading arrangements. The logistics folk will have the expertise. |
Johnson, Gove, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Cash, Duncan-Smith, Redwood - heads in the clouds Bazza, my old Brexit mate, never had to get their hands dirty with bits of paper in their lives.
And I get that no leavers expected that leaving the EU would mean that we didn't have the same freedoms (from bureaucracy and other things) as before. I honestly get that. But it might be something to do with the fact that they ignored anyone who told them that would be the position as scaremongers.
And I love the fact that the EU is still being blamed for so much - when will it ever end from these diabolical European scoundrels? Did you see that they want to charge us 7 euros every three years just to go there - the thieving continental b@stards. | |
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| This is Brexit on 10:48 - Aug 20 with 1327 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 18:53 - Jul 21 by DorsetIan |
Did you watch the interview? |
Yes, but I've always taken his communiques with a pinch of salt. before Brexit and subsequently.
What is your point? | | | |
| This is Brexit on 12:49 - Aug 20 with 1315 views | DorsetIan |
| This is Brexit on 10:48 - Aug 20 by Berber |
Yes, but I've always taken his communiques with a pinch of salt. before Brexit and subsequently.
What is your point? |
I wasn't sure that you had.
Takin what he said with a 'pinch of salt' is one thing. I'm all for honest scepticism.
And we all have to weigh up whether we think someone is telling the truth. On this occasion, my impression was that he was (for the most part, at least). Just because someone might have an axe to grind, doesn't mean that everything they say can be dismissed as lies.
And isn't his basic theme that Johnson is unfit to govern? Johnson corroborates that every day he's in power. | |
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| This is Brexit on 17:34 - Aug 20 with 1282 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 12:49 - Aug 20 by DorsetIan |
I wasn't sure that you had.
Takin what he said with a 'pinch of salt' is one thing. I'm all for honest scepticism.
And we all have to weigh up whether we think someone is telling the truth. On this occasion, my impression was that he was (for the most part, at least). Just because someone might have an axe to grind, doesn't mean that everything they say can be dismissed as lies.
And isn't his basic theme that Johnson is unfit to govern? Johnson corroborates that every day he's in power. |
The problem is, when there is so much crud and observable deceptions mixed in with truths it becomes meaningless to try to separate them as nobody knows where the boundaries are. That is usually done on partisan lines, which most of the discussion about Cummings has taken place.
That Boris is far from ideal is pretty much indisputable. The big problem is that there are no obvious politicians in any of the parties that have enough political weight, (ignoring the intellectual and moral aspects where the judgement would still probably apply) so we end up with the best of a shabby bunch winning the election. | | | |
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