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Where’s Nick today? Being the mouth piece of the club, I was expecting him to churn out some positives. Maybe remind what a great window we had and how the squad is stronger. Or what a great owner Gao is by not putting a penny into the club he bought.
He is sticking to his guns. His match report said:
"Lets get this right though we lost this due to our performance, not because of Gao, not because of a lack of players coming in during the transfer window, not because we let fringe players out on loan, but what happened on this night alone."
Fair play, he disagrees about Gao. Makes no sense to me, but he has the courage of his convictions.
I have always been positive about bringing through young players and also agree with not spending rediculous amounts of money. Why spend 50 million on Werner, when he has scored less goals than Adams?
But, we are run on a shoe string, let's be honest. It just feels desperately inadequate. The club is in serious debt, yes some other clubs are too, but it just seems that we are so deeply in debt, that we can't even keep a 20 year old full back. It all seems very desperate. The squad obviously isn't strong enough. Ralph has performed miracles with what he has at his disposal. Without Ralph, let's say Hughes was here or Pellegrino, we would be down. Ralph has enabled us to get away with it.
But unfortunately too, our young players coming through just don't look good enough. They look out of their depth and that is where this way of doing things will see us just "get away with it" or worse.
Stronger squad etc etc on 20:43 - Feb 3 by Saintsforeverj
I have always been positive about bringing through young players and also agree with not spending rediculous amounts of money. Why spend 50 million on Werner, when he has scored less goals than Adams?
But, we are run on a shoe string, let's be honest. It just feels desperately inadequate. The club is in serious debt, yes some other clubs are too, but it just seems that we are so deeply in debt, that we can't even keep a 20 year old full back. It all seems very desperate. The squad obviously isn't strong enough. Ralph has performed miracles with what he has at his disposal. Without Ralph, let's say Hughes was here or Pellegrino, we would be down. Ralph has enabled us to get away with it.
But unfortunately too, our young players coming through just don't look good enough. They look out of their depth and that is where this way of doing things will see us just "get away with it" or worse.
[Post edited 3 Feb 2021 20:49]
I worry that we're going to look back on this team in a few years time, remember everything that Ralph achieved in 2020 (while we weren't watching!) and think what a missed opportunity that was.
Let's hope that there is a potential buyer out there who can see the potential that this club could be. Someone who is actually prepared to back Ralph financially.
Stronger squad etc etc on 20:43 - Feb 3 by Saintsforeverj
I have always been positive about bringing through young players and also agree with not spending rediculous amounts of money. Why spend 50 million on Werner, when he has scored less goals than Adams?
But, we are run on a shoe string, let's be honest. It just feels desperately inadequate. The club is in serious debt, yes some other clubs are too, but it just seems that we are so deeply in debt, that we can't even keep a 20 year old full back. It all seems very desperate. The squad obviously isn't strong enough. Ralph has performed miracles with what he has at his disposal. Without Ralph, let's say Hughes was here or Pellegrino, we would be down. Ralph has enabled us to get away with it.
But unfortunately too, our young players coming through just don't look good enough. They look out of their depth and that is where this way of doing things will see us just "get away with it" or worse.
[Post edited 3 Feb 2021 20:49]
Its a massive step for a young player playing in the youth set up to play in the premiership and hit the ground running.
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Stronger squad etc etc on 21:24 - Feb 3 with 1427 views
Its a massive step for a young player playing in the youth set up to play in the premiership and hit the ground running.
They’ve surely got to earn the right to be in the first team squads alone start. Yet this crop of youngsters don’t seem to have done that. It’s just there’s no one else left.
Its a massive step for a young player playing in the youth set up to play in the premiership and hit the ground running.
It is, but let's be honest if you are good enough, you shine. Rooney debut goal for Everton, Le Tiss debut, Lallana debut, Kane's debut, Bale's debut, luke Shaw just to name a few. They hit the ground running from the off, and were clearly good enough. You just knew they would be good players from the first game. Most of our young players at the moment just don't look up to it.
The players you mention are all top players. What about all the other players in the PL ? Did they all have stellar debuts?
I think the club are well aware that the youngsters are not ready yet and but for the injury crisis I doubt they would have been thrown in.
I think we need to be careful about ownership. It's so easy to shriek Gao out every time something happens we don't like. Twitter is full of that stuff after every defeat. Very few of them have any idea of what comes next but you just know that what they all crave is a Man City type owner who will throw a billion pounds at the team. Any other owner that has any sort of budget restrictions will always be criticised by many. Gao hasn't been great that true. It was fairly clear from day 1 that he isn't a multi billionaire. That said Marcus never had to prove his intent in the PL either did he. He got us up through the leagues - which let's face it is the less expensive part - what do you think he would have done in the PL , given the manager 500 million? I doubt it.
Apparently this American guy is still interested in a take over, but he doesn't seem to have limitless cash, in fact he would be making the purchase using other people's money so will we be any better off? I think it was Alex Crook or Peach that said this week there are other parties interested but they can't act until the period of exclusivity ends. But as we all know, a new owner does not necessarily mean a better owner.
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Stronger squad etc etc on 09:29 - Feb 4 with 1222 views
Stronger squad etc etc on 08:57 - Feb 4 by SonicBoom
The players you mention are all top players. What about all the other players in the PL ? Did they all have stellar debuts?
I think the club are well aware that the youngsters are not ready yet and but for the injury crisis I doubt they would have been thrown in.
I think we need to be careful about ownership. It's so easy to shriek Gao out every time something happens we don't like. Twitter is full of that stuff after every defeat. Very few of them have any idea of what comes next but you just know that what they all crave is a Man City type owner who will throw a billion pounds at the team. Any other owner that has any sort of budget restrictions will always be criticised by many. Gao hasn't been great that true. It was fairly clear from day 1 that he isn't a multi billionaire. That said Marcus never had to prove his intent in the PL either did he. He got us up through the leagues - which let's face it is the less expensive part - what do you think he would have done in the PL , given the manager 500 million? I doubt it.
Apparently this American guy is still interested in a take over, but he doesn't seem to have limitless cash, in fact he would be making the purchase using other people's money so will we be any better off? I think it was Alex Crook or Peach that said this week there are other parties interested but they can't act until the period of exclusivity ends. But as we all know, a new owner does not necessarily mean a better owner.
The criticism of Gao isn't personal. As Nick says, maybe he had grand plans to invest in us but was blocked by the Chinese authorities.
It really doesn't matter. He has owned the club for over three years and over a number of transfers we have failed to invest properly in the squad, which has declined.
It is not a question of expecting him to inject millions and millions. It's simply a question of having an owner that can ensure that the club can progress in a sensible way.
Under Gao (and with Ralph's influence) we have managed to maintain a good first team, but there is really very little in reserve now.
Stronger squad etc etc on 09:29 - Feb 4 by Centurion
Why would anyone want to buy a football club?
Money laundering, moving assets offshore (to the UK), speculative adventurism (if you are a billionaire, what else are you going to do to get some thrills).
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Stronger squad etc etc on 12:39 - Feb 4 with 1044 views
Its a massive step for a young player playing in the youth set up to play in the premiership and hit the ground running.
Totally agree.
It doesn't help when people on here set such high expectations for them either. Obafemi was going to be the next hot striker and would be the goals and assist king, N'Lundulu is a big powerful striker who will wreck havoc to the prem defences and shoot us towards Europe etc.
What the recent games have proved is that these youngsters are far from ready and regardless of how good they think they are, if nothing else, it has shown them what they need to do in order to make it. It is up to them to now show if they want it or not.
There is a tendency for youngsters to try too hard to impress when they get their chances. Even Valery against Shrews, despite his Prem experience, tried to take everyone on far too much, didn't focus on his passing and final ball and ended up impressing for the wrong reasons. Jankowitz threatened to put in a transfer request if he didn't get game time, so he got his chance and let the whole club down inside of 90 seconds with that ridiculous challenge.
The bottom line is our squad has numbers, but many are currently injured, out on loan, too young, or simply not good enough. I hope once again that this summer we can out at least 10 dead wood players and replace them with 3 or 4 quality signings.
TimSaint
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Stronger squad etc etc on 12:55 - Feb 4 with 1031 views
Stronger squad etc etc on 10:09 - Feb 4 by DorsetIan
The criticism of Gao isn't personal. As Nick says, maybe he had grand plans to invest in us but was blocked by the Chinese authorities.
It really doesn't matter. He has owned the club for over three years and over a number of transfers we have failed to invest properly in the squad, which has declined.
It is not a question of expecting him to inject millions and millions. It's simply a question of having an owner that can ensure that the club can progress in a sensible way.
Under Gao (and with Ralph's influence) we have managed to maintain a good first team, but there is really very little in reserve now.
You first paragraph is quite accurate, but the second is wrong it does matter, Gao is an easy target , but he is doing us no wrong, if he came here to money launder he could have take the money for Hojbjerg demanded that Ings be sold and pocketed £40 million.
Did he do that ? We all know he didn't he sanctioned spending the cash on new players, that is not the action of a man who is just trying to money launder.
Our issue with the squad is that when he arrived we spent money on players who cost us big time.
In his first transfer window we signed Carrillo for £20 million in January 2018, the fans were demanding a big buy and we got it.
In the summer window of 2018 we signed Elyounoussi for £17 mlllion, Stuart Armstrong for £7 million, Gunn for £10 million & Vestergaard for £18 million.
Then the situation with China worsened and he was unable to invest.
Since then we have started to get rid of the high earning wasters and built a good little squad up, I would say it is better than the squad of 2018.
You are right we have built a good first team, but we also had a good balance in reserve, a club of our size would find it hard to have two premier League players for every position, only the real rich clubs can do that because they pay so much the likes of Man City & Liverpool, spurs etc are happy to sit on the bench for £100k a week,
Im not goig to run through the entire squad player by player, but discluding those out on loan we have 18 experienced professionals including the two loans, we then have another 4 semi experienced youngsters ie Obafemi etc (excluding the Valery & Vokins) and then we are down to the promising youngsters like Watts, Jankewitz etc.
When he came Ralph said he liked to work with a core of 18 plus promising youngsters. He is well aware of the issues in keeping more than 18 experienced pros happy and wanting to stay.
When everyone is fit we don't have a problem , the squad can take 4 injuries which would usually be considered a crisis, but we have 9 out.
A month ago after we had beaten Liverpool everyone was happy, suddenly 4 defeats have everyone bedwetting.
Yes it is disappointing but Ralph is a good manager he keeps calm in a crisis, that is what we need to do, with players fit again we can rise up the league again.
We have to rein in the expectations, we cannot compete with the big clubs for players fees and wages, we have to buy in players in the £10 -16 million bracket and nurture them.
If anyone doesnt like that, then im afraid it is reality and this is not the club for them.
To finish with Gao, if anyone can find a buyer i'm sure he would bite your hand off, but in these days finding one that has the money to invest is even harder.
I'm sorry that this doesnt fit the Gao out/no Ambition/ etc etc knee jerk reactions all over social media, it doesn't mean I am the clubs mouthpiece as Butty kindly put it, it means I look at things in a realistic way, I see that where the problem is and the fact we are in decent shape overall and that we are moving forward slowly but surely.
This time two years ago we would have bitten the hands of to be 12th with 17 games left to play and only 4 points above 7th.
In 4 weeks time things may change again
Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime
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Stronger squad etc etc on 13:02 - Feb 4 with 1026 views
In the 55 years I have been supporting this club I can’t recall any owner throwing money at the club. As for Gao, I don’t recall him getting flak when we were sitting on the top of the Premier League.
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Stronger squad etc etc on 13:23 - Feb 4 with 994 views
It would nice to have an owner like the Everton owner, the Leicester owner, the Leeds owner, the Villa owner, the Wolves owner even the West Ham owner. Those teams all invest in their squads. Nobody is talking about spending like the top 4 clubs, just like Villa, West Ham, Leicester, Leeds, Wolves. Why is it so wrong for fans to look at those similar sized clubs and wish we had that kind of owner?
We have Gao, who doesn't invest a thing. Not only does he not invest, we have to have a thread bare squad. I mean, what is the harm in wishing we had an owner like Wolves, Leicester, Leeds etc?
Stronger squad etc etc on 13:23 - Feb 4 by Saintsforeverj
It would nice to have an owner like the Everton owner, the Leicester owner, the Leeds owner, the Villa owner, the Wolves owner even the West Ham owner. Those teams all invest in their squads. Nobody is talking about spending like the top 4 clubs, just like Villa, West Ham, Leicester, Leeds, Wolves. Why is it so wrong for fans to look at those similar sized clubs and wish we had that kind of owner?
We have Gao, who doesn't invest a thing. Not only does he not invest, we have to have a thread bare squad. I mean, what is the harm in wishing we had an owner like Wolves, Leicester, Leeds etc?
[Post edited 4 Feb 2021 13:26]
Do you know for a fact that he has investing nothing apart from what he spent on buying the club? Perhaps you could also tell us which of the other owners have plough their cash into the club in the last 50 years?
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Stronger squad etc etc on 13:55 - Feb 4 with 941 views
Stronger squad etc etc on 13:44 - Feb 4 by Sadoldgit
Do you know for a fact that he has investing nothing apart from what he spent on buying the club? Perhaps you could also tell us which of the other owners have plough their cash into the club in the last 50 years?
Marcus certainly put money in as did people like Leon Crouch. You wouldn't prefer an owner like Leicester, Villa or Wolves? And I seem to remember you being negative about our owner in other threads, so before you start arguing as you always do, let's have a look at what you have said about our owner in previous threads. I am glad you like the very Conservative approach taken by our owner. Now let's see what you have said in previous threads.
Stronger squad etc etc on 12:55 - Feb 4 by SaintNick
You first paragraph is quite accurate, but the second is wrong it does matter, Gao is an easy target , but he is doing us no wrong, if he came here to money launder he could have take the money for Hojbjerg demanded that Ings be sold and pocketed £40 million.
Did he do that ? We all know he didn't he sanctioned spending the cash on new players, that is not the action of a man who is just trying to money launder.
Our issue with the squad is that when he arrived we spent money on players who cost us big time.
In his first transfer window we signed Carrillo for £20 million in January 2018, the fans were demanding a big buy and we got it.
In the summer window of 2018 we signed Elyounoussi for £17 mlllion, Stuart Armstrong for £7 million, Gunn for £10 million & Vestergaard for £18 million.
Then the situation with China worsened and he was unable to invest.
Since then we have started to get rid of the high earning wasters and built a good little squad up, I would say it is better than the squad of 2018.
You are right we have built a good first team, but we also had a good balance in reserve, a club of our size would find it hard to have two premier League players for every position, only the real rich clubs can do that because they pay so much the likes of Man City & Liverpool, spurs etc are happy to sit on the bench for £100k a week,
Im not goig to run through the entire squad player by player, but discluding those out on loan we have 18 experienced professionals including the two loans, we then have another 4 semi experienced youngsters ie Obafemi etc (excluding the Valery & Vokins) and then we are down to the promising youngsters like Watts, Jankewitz etc.
When he came Ralph said he liked to work with a core of 18 plus promising youngsters. He is well aware of the issues in keeping more than 18 experienced pros happy and wanting to stay.
When everyone is fit we don't have a problem , the squad can take 4 injuries which would usually be considered a crisis, but we have 9 out.
A month ago after we had beaten Liverpool everyone was happy, suddenly 4 defeats have everyone bedwetting.
Yes it is disappointing but Ralph is a good manager he keeps calm in a crisis, that is what we need to do, with players fit again we can rise up the league again.
We have to rein in the expectations, we cannot compete with the big clubs for players fees and wages, we have to buy in players in the £10 -16 million bracket and nurture them.
If anyone doesnt like that, then im afraid it is reality and this is not the club for them.
To finish with Gao, if anyone can find a buyer i'm sure he would bite your hand off, but in these days finding one that has the money to invest is even harder.
I'm sorry that this doesnt fit the Gao out/no Ambition/ etc etc knee jerk reactions all over social media, it doesn't mean I am the clubs mouthpiece as Butty kindly put it, it means I look at things in a realistic way, I see that where the problem is and the fact we are in decent shape overall and that we are moving forward slowly but surely.
This time two years ago we would have bitten the hands of to be 12th with 17 games left to play and only 4 points above 7th.
In 4 weeks time things may change again
You are sticking to your guns that Gao has done us no wrong and I respect that, but, for me, you seem not be able to see the wood for the trees.
For whatever reason, over the 3.5 years since Gao bought the club, the strength of the squad has weakened. For the Utd game we were really missing 3 players - KWP, Vestergaard and Romeu. We were forced to bring in not only two youngsters, but two youngsters with almost no previous experience. Add to that that we had nobody on the bench to bring on in midfield when down to 10 men. And the starting 11 'experienced' players included Stephens and Djenepo, who probably cost us 5 goals between them.
Every window, it's been clear that we haven't brought in who we need because we are strapped for cash. You were even trying to dress this window up as a good one, while more players left without replacement.
We've just got steadily weaker and weaker, and when a few injuries hit, it's not even that the cracks start to show, we go down 9-0...again!
The direction of travel if Gao stays as the owner is as clear as day.
Stronger squad etc etc on 13:55 - Feb 4 by Saintsforeverj
Marcus certainly put money in as did people like Leon Crouch. You wouldn't prefer an owner like Leicester, Villa or Wolves? And I seem to remember you being negative about our owner in other threads, so before you start arguing as you always do, let's have a look at what you have said about our owner in previous threads. I am glad you like the very Conservative approach taken by our owner. Now let's see what you have said in previous threads.
They didn’t spend fortunes. I am sure you understand just how much wages have gone up nowadays? Gao might have had huge plans for the club before he wasn’t allowed to take any money out of his country, who knows? Apparently he has been trying to sell the club for a while. You have a Tory mindset so you will understand why he isn’t going to throw money at the club if he wants to sell it.
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Stronger squad etc etc on 14:28 - Feb 4 with 914 views
Stronger squad etc etc on 12:55 - Feb 4 by SaintNick
You first paragraph is quite accurate, but the second is wrong it does matter, Gao is an easy target , but he is doing us no wrong, if he came here to money launder he could have take the money for Hojbjerg demanded that Ings be sold and pocketed £40 million.
Did he do that ? We all know he didn't he sanctioned spending the cash on new players, that is not the action of a man who is just trying to money launder.
Our issue with the squad is that when he arrived we spent money on players who cost us big time.
In his first transfer window we signed Carrillo for £20 million in January 2018, the fans were demanding a big buy and we got it.
In the summer window of 2018 we signed Elyounoussi for £17 mlllion, Stuart Armstrong for £7 million, Gunn for £10 million & Vestergaard for £18 million.
Then the situation with China worsened and he was unable to invest.
Since then we have started to get rid of the high earning wasters and built a good little squad up, I would say it is better than the squad of 2018.
You are right we have built a good first team, but we also had a good balance in reserve, a club of our size would find it hard to have two premier League players for every position, only the real rich clubs can do that because they pay so much the likes of Man City & Liverpool, spurs etc are happy to sit on the bench for £100k a week,
Im not goig to run through the entire squad player by player, but discluding those out on loan we have 18 experienced professionals including the two loans, we then have another 4 semi experienced youngsters ie Obafemi etc (excluding the Valery & Vokins) and then we are down to the promising youngsters like Watts, Jankewitz etc.
When he came Ralph said he liked to work with a core of 18 plus promising youngsters. He is well aware of the issues in keeping more than 18 experienced pros happy and wanting to stay.
When everyone is fit we don't have a problem , the squad can take 4 injuries which would usually be considered a crisis, but we have 9 out.
A month ago after we had beaten Liverpool everyone was happy, suddenly 4 defeats have everyone bedwetting.
Yes it is disappointing but Ralph is a good manager he keeps calm in a crisis, that is what we need to do, with players fit again we can rise up the league again.
We have to rein in the expectations, we cannot compete with the big clubs for players fees and wages, we have to buy in players in the £10 -16 million bracket and nurture them.
If anyone doesnt like that, then im afraid it is reality and this is not the club for them.
To finish with Gao, if anyone can find a buyer i'm sure he would bite your hand off, but in these days finding one that has the money to invest is even harder.
I'm sorry that this doesnt fit the Gao out/no Ambition/ etc etc knee jerk reactions all over social media, it doesn't mean I am the clubs mouthpiece as Butty kindly put it, it means I look at things in a realistic way, I see that where the problem is and the fact we are in decent shape overall and that we are moving forward slowly but surely.
This time two years ago we would have bitten the hands of to be 12th with 17 games left to play and only 4 points above 7th.
In 4 weeks time things may change again
nick you have gone from non stop criticizing the club, to never saying a bad word.
If you do a comparison between this season and the results of those matches last season. This season we are actually 6 points worse off. Its just as well there are 3 really poor teams in the league, other wise we would be in danger of doing a Swansea on current form.
I would argue we havent played really well in a long time. Possibly back to before Wolves away. We cant score from open play (1 goal in last 8 league games from open play).
Cost cutting by sending varley, vokins and long out was just mental. Varley would have been a better option than ramsey or dnepo.
Stronger squad etc etc on 14:24 - Feb 4 by Sadoldgit
They didn’t spend fortunes. I am sure you understand just how much wages have gone up nowadays? Gao might have had huge plans for the club before he wasn’t allowed to take any money out of his country, who knows? Apparently he has been trying to sell the club for a while. You have a Tory mindset so you will understand why he isn’t going to throw money at the club if he wants to sell it.
Running a football club with a rich owner's own money is totally different to what my views are about how the government spends my own money. You don't take over a football club to balance the books, you surely take it over to achieve success. But I will ask again, would you rather have the Wolves owner, Leicester owner, Leeds owner, Villa owner, Everton owner to name just a few clubs who are a similar size to us? These owners are enthusiastic, they attend games and enjoy the challenge of creating a successful team with their own money, for their enjoyment and the enjoyment of the fans. You prefer Gao to them, even though you have criticised him in other threads: Ok.
Your point about wages - how come Villa, Everton, Wolves, Leicester, West Ham can afford the wages? Is the answer the owner or not?
Nobody could legislate for the number of injuries we have had recently. Add on to that the fact that many of our under 23’s are probably Division 1 standard and that leaves us where we are. To be fair to the club, there aren’t many clubs outside the top 6 who would be able to field competitive teams with the amount of injuries we have had.
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Stronger squad etc etc on 14:38 - Feb 4 with 892 views
Stronger squad etc etc on 14:37 - Feb 4 by Sadoldgit
Nobody could legislate for the number of injuries we have had recently. Add on to that the fact that many of our under 23’s are probably Division 1 standard and that leaves us where we are. To be fair to the club, there aren’t many clubs outside the top 6 who would be able to field competitive teams with the amount of injuries we have had.
But Long, Valery and Vokins would have helped wouldn't they.
Stronger squad etc etc on 14:28 - Feb 4 by Butty101
nick you have gone from non stop criticizing the club, to never saying a bad word.
If you do a comparison between this season and the results of those matches last season. This season we are actually 6 points worse off. Its just as well there are 3 really poor teams in the league, other wise we would be in danger of doing a Swansea on current form.
I would argue we havent played really well in a long time. Possibly back to before Wolves away. We cant score from open play (1 goal in last 8 league games from open play).
Cost cutting by sending varley, vokins and long out was just mental. Varley would have been a better option than ramsey or dnepo.
Exactly. Those saying they think the club were right to let Long go, when we have an injury crisis, to play an inexperienced young player in midfield, or letting go Vokins after one game to put Ramsey there and Djenepo the other side, are probably not understanding why we lost 9 nil the other night. The youngster got sent off, Ramsey was torn apart, Djenepo was torn apart, but the striker was played in defence, so what do we expect!! We had other options before they were sent out on loan.
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