Forum | VAR by Scoot | The Ugly Inside

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VAR 14:50 - Jan 17 with 1847 views

To the whiners. VAR had a net + on us. It levelled the field. Show me stats to prove me wrong.
If you're not interested in a more even game, follow the Tour DeFrance or athletics where cheating is accepted as part of the sport.

Poll:

Should NJ go?

VAR on 17:13 - Jan 17 with 1761 views

InTimeAddedOn

In my humble opinion, VAR itself is not the problem, in the main the issues that infuriate people so much stem from some of the absolute asterisks running it. For example, if you have heard the released audio from their monumental cock up at Spurs, it was unbelievable.
I am a great believer in fairness in football and that extends beyond the cheating on field to the rank unfairness of the play offs where 22/35 third placed finishers in the Championship have been denied promotion by the play off lottery. Back on topic though, I think the perception of what VAR would be when it was first mooted, and to a much larger extent, what it could be if operated properly, has proved in reality to be a lot different for many people from what their expectations were and indeed still are.
Sort out the numpties in the VAR booths and in part at least replace them with ex-players, cue the usual guff from SFC Ref about them being no better which is just hot air and a typical reaction from the closed shop, inward looking clan that they are and the higher up the reffing food chain you go, the worse they get. Ex players would not, no, could not be any worse and in fact would be a massive improvement as they have played the game at an elite level. For example, would you let a learner driver drive a school bus full of kids? No you would not, so why have nobody with elite game experience and a total lack of the ‘clan mentality’ present in any VAR booth? LOTG are not that difficult to grasp, especially for ex-pros.
I think people have the right to be unhappy with VAR as it stands but not VAR itself but several aspects of the way it is operated and particularly by some of the people operating it.
I sincerely hope it stays, improves and starts to deliver what most people wanted from it and were excited about at the point it was first introduced.
A massive VAR review and revamp needed this summer IMO, fingers crossed we get it.

VAR on 17:39 - Jan 17 with 1741 views

SFC_Referee

VAR on 17:13 - Jan 17 by InTimeAddedOn

And yet you say all this, but as has been proven many times by what people say on here, talksport, sky, MOTD, BT Sport etc… fans, former players and footballing pundits all wouldn’t do any better themselves! As you see it all the time, like with that palace Everton game and the Burnley Luton one, where many of them are disagreeing over what should’ve been given. So why would that make any difference to what the refs do, seeing how no matter what they gave for those decisions they’d get scrutinised for them? And yeah they do from time to time make those howlers most are in agreement with, but even then from time to time you see ex players have their own howlers around these decisions when reviewing them all after the game.
And that’s just been proven on so many different occasions where many don’t know the LOTG themselves, and the few times they do know it, still have some coming out with ridiculous comments. As that’s exactly why the likes of FIFA will never allow it, as it would just lead to even more inconsistency as well as more controversy around connections to certain teams others doing VAR would cause.

But hey don’t let facts get in your way and call in hot air but there’s a reason why no major footballing authority takes what Sunday league players like yourself and your opinions around it all seriously. As you say they’d do better but the facts show otherwise and again you say the LOTG wouldn’t be that hard to grasp but with some of the nonsense you hear many fans and ex players come out with about them just says it all! Although it would be kinda nice for them to get a feel of what it’s like to be used as a scapegoat and blamed every week for many teams poor performances and decisions they got correct.
As VAR does ruin the experience for fans, and that I won’t deny, but I can guarantee you that it won’t be heading away anytime soon, so therefore the only way to improve it would be to use it for only binary decisions that are simply black and white. As other than the spurs incident (which no one can deny was a one off and just never usually happens) VAR gets practically all of them correct, where it’s just how long it takes which causes the issue, but the decisions themselves are perfectly fine.

Poll:

Should Russel Martins be sacked if we don’t win playoffs

VAR on 17:55 - Jan 17 with 1727 views

kingslandstand1

Strange how most PL managers bemoan it but sort of accept it cos they have to, but last night Moyes was now calling for it as he was cheated (?) out of a decision with the foul on our boy Danny Ings!

VAR on 17:58 - Jan 17 with 1720 views

SFC_Referee

VAR on 17:55 - Jan 17 by kingslandstand1
Strange how most PL managers bemoan it but sort of accept it cos they have to, but last night Moyes was now calling for it as he was cheated (?) out of a decision with the foul on our boy Danny Ings!

But that’s just exactly why refs and VAR are just an easy scapegoat for the players and managers these days, as no matter what the officials or VAR does/doesn’t do they’ll always find a way to blame them due to how it’s all so over analysed, which just takes all the attention away from them and the several great chances West Ham had to equalise as well as the poor defending that ended up costing them the cup.

Poll:

Should Russel Martins be sacked if we don’t win playoffs

VAR on 15:18 - Jan 18 with 1574 views

sledger

Referees var ing referees is a problem and cheating basturd players is a problem,sort these two things out and var will work far better.Ex players on var not the answer,these are the very people who have screwed it up,anonymous people in the var booth is the way to go or ditch it and just run with refs decision as in the 2nd division by

VAR on 13:08 - Jan 19 with 1495 views

stmichael

I dont really care if we have a net profit or loss.
I just know I am sick of seeing players offside by a finger nail and not being able to celebrate a goal because someone is wearing long sleeves instead of short sleeves.
And if we lose 1-0 tomorrow because someone takes a dive in the penalty area and the referee buys it I will happily accept it instead of having the monstrosity that is VAR in the championship..

Poll:

Do we bring back Bernard at the weekend or stick with Bree?

VAR on 15:45 - Jan 19 with 1469 views

DorsetIan

VAR on 13:08 - Jan 19 by stmichael

Exactly this.

Even if it got the decisions right (which is doesn't) it would still be ruining the game.

Poll:

Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

VAR on 16:52 - Jan 19 with 1442 views

Wints76

VAR on 15:45 - Jan 19 by DorsetIan
Exactly this. Even if it got the decisions right (which is doesn't) it would still be ruining the game.

Yep, agreed. I like human error being part of the game and being able to moan about it. We still have human error but the fun and spontaneity has been sucked out of the game. The joy of celebrating a goal in the top flight has gone, and the joy of an opposition goal being disallowed for a pathetic offside as detailed above doesn't come close

VAR on 14:26 - Feb 18 with 1045 views

Scoot

VAR on 16:52 - Jan 19 by Wints76
Yep, agreed. I like human error being part of the game and being able to moan about it. We still have human error but the fun and spontaneity has been sucked out of the game. The joy of celebrating a goal in the top flight has gone, and the joy of an opposition goal being disallowed for a pathetic offside as detailed above doesn't come close

Did you say that in 86 & 2010? Offside is Offside, whether its a fingernail or two yards. Utd have won titles due to bad decisions and Sunderland went down and so did we in 2005.

Poll:

Should NJ go?

VAR on 15:00 - Feb 18 with 997 views

Wints76

VAR on 14:26 - Feb 18 by Scoot
Did you say that in 86 & 2010? Offside is Offside, whether its a fingernail or two yards. Utd have won titles due to bad decisions and Sunderland went down and so did we in 2005.

If it was ONLY used for decisions like 1986 and 2010 (and things like the Zidane headbutt that was actually missed by the ref), I could understand it. Using it to put things like that Villa player having a bit of his arse cheek offside yesterday is no fun.

As for us in 2005, I was at most of those games and it was a combination of 3 managers, some absolutely terrible loan signings, late goals,gutless performances and a niggling crapness that saw us relegated. How would VAR have kept us up? Similarly, what titles did United win that they wouldn't have? Sunderland?

You are right that 'offside is offside', but we managed for 100+ years beforehand and a had a fun, free flowing game. We now have different laws at different levels, nobody really knows what is happening and laws aren't applied consistently anyway.

VAR on 14:15 - Feb 19 with 836 views

DorsetIan

VAR on 14:26 - Feb 18 by Scoot
Did you say that in 86 & 2010? Offside is Offside, whether its a fingernail or two yards. Utd have won titles due to bad decisions and Sunderland went down and so did we in 2005.

The 'offside is offside' statement might seem obvious but it's not.

Two points:

1. In every format of the game that doesn't involve VAR, the position of players necessarily has to be judged by the linesman and the ref. They cannot possibly be expected to judge fingernails, elbows and big toes, and never have done. VAR introduced a level of precision which was new and completely unnecessary.

2. The offside rules some years ago introduced a new rule that level is onside. It was designed to give the attacking player the benefit of the doubt and to make the game more attractive. The concept of being 'level' is not defined in the rules and VAR takes absolutely no note of it. The sillouettes of attacker and defender are NEVER going to perfectly overlap so being level is therefore always going to be something of a judgement call - and again it's a judgement call that can only be made by linesman and referree from their positions on the field. The practical effect of VAR has been to completely knock out the 'level is onside' rule, and the vast majority of stupid offside decisions have been where players who are clearly 'level' in the normally understood sense are deemed offside because one of their knackers or whatever it slightly protruding.

So, offside when VAR is in play is not offside as understood in any other form of the game.

It makes the game worse. If two players are broadly level, a nose, ear or fat arse is not going to give them any meaningful advantage.

Poll:

Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

VAR on 15:07 - Feb 19 with 805 views

saint901

There are many inequalities in the professional and amateur game and there always will be. VAR is not going to solve those issues or provide a degree of evenness so that clubs can compete on more equal terms.

VAR is a good idea but it has been poorly executed. In my view, that is partly (a large part) caused by the fact that the reviews etc are not transparent, shared with the crowd, shared with the media.

If there is a contested decision and the screens in the ground or on TV show that incident in real time as discussed with the ref/officials, then everybody knows. If the ref still makes a howler of a decision (aided and abetted by the VAR official) then we all know and lessons can be learned.

I also think that a ref who has made an onfield decision who is then "invited" to visit the pitchside monitor, should be able to say "no thanks - happy with what I decided".

Football is a partisan sport and supporters of "lower level" clubs will always feel that they are the victim of a conspiracy that sees "bigger" clubs given the benefit of the doubt. I seem to recall studies which show that this is usually not the case, but it's a natural thing to feel when matters are not going so well.

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