| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis 18:47 - Apr 1 with 1914 views | Northernr |
For our latest data analysis piece, Andrew Scherer has delved into a couple of repeat topics of the past few weeks...
1 - Goalkeepers going short, does it work in general, is it working for QPR?
2 - Referees looking for a nice easy ride in our games at Millwall and Portsmouth
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/64083 |  | | |  |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 22:09 - Apr 1 with 1662 views | daveB |
I wonder how many of our short goal kicks end in a throw in to the oppositon, it feels like all of them but probably isn't
Each one feels the same, Nardi to Cook, Cook back across goal to Paal or Dunne, Sheer panic as we are still in our box, back to Nardi, to Cook who tries to find Dunne or Smyth and kicks it out then blames Dunne & Smyth for not getting the ball |  | | |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 22:46 - Apr 1 with 1604 views | NewBee |
One element which often gets overlooked re this long ball vs short ball by the gk is that with the former, you really need a big target man up front (ideally two), otherwise the ball is liable to come straight back.
And if that "return of serve" is also a big header (or kick) by the oppo out of defence, then you also need a couple of big CB's who can deal with that if it lands on the edge of your own penalty area etc.
Was Lyndon Dykes a target man? [Post edited 1 Apr 22:47]
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| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 22:58 - Apr 1 with 1587 views | KensalT |
My (totally unscientific) theory about playing out from the back is that you have more chance of success if you are on a big pitch. A big pitch means it's easier for your teammates to find space and forces the opposition to do more running if they want to close you down.
I remember the Brighton game in pre season where we just couldn't get into their half.
So maybe our small pitch is a factor in our inability to move the ball up the park.
The other factor is how to beat the opposition press. One option that can work is to just play the long ball into the space behind them. But for that to work you need pace up front and we simply haven't had much of that in recent years.
All of which might explain why we struggle to play out from the back and our results pick up when we try to be a bit more direct. | | | |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 05:07 - Apr 2 with 1418 views | QPROslo |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 22:58 - Apr 1 by KensalT |
My (totally unscientific) theory about playing out from the back is that you have more chance of success if you are on a big pitch. A big pitch means it's easier for your teammates to find space and forces the opposition to do more running if they want to close you down.
I remember the Brighton game in pre season where we just couldn't get into their half.
So maybe our small pitch is a factor in our inability to move the ball up the park.
The other factor is how to beat the opposition press. One option that can work is to just play the long ball into the space behind them. But for that to work you need pace up front and we simply haven't had much of that in recent years.
All of which might explain why we struggle to play out from the back and our results pick up when we try to be a bit more direct. |
Variation is the key for me. Do one thing all the time the Opposition will know about it and and should be better able to stop it. One of the few chances we had at Stoke was that long punt from Nardi that bounced and Dembele's speed and possibly Stoke's surprise gave him a decent chance. Think maybe he was trying to lob the Keeper like he scored his one and only goal for us if I remember right, but whatever his shot was tame. But it showed you don't have to have a big striker to play long, though obviously it helps. | | | |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 08:26 - Apr 2 with 1257 views | stevec |
Great piece.
Have always thought there are good refs and bad refs but thankfully very few biased refs.
Often wondered if we go short because the players are short. Consequently we have our biggest players doing most of the passing when they’d probably suit the more physical aspect of the game, moving the ball onto central midfielders who, again, would probably enjoy a bit more physical interaction, then eventually onto the three tiny tens who are quickly dispossessed by their more rugged counterparts and on it goes. The centre forward, big small slow or quick is left to wonder whether he’ll ever be gainfully employed.
Personally, I’d like to see one team, any team, say enough of this. We will have a maximum of two, maybe one player, starting who is under six foot tall. The keeper will kick every ball into the opposition half whereby the intention is not necessarily win the first ball but, most definitely the second ball by sheer physical strength. On the rare occasions the oppo do retain the ball, the six foot backs will despatch ball and whatever happens to be in the way, back into the opposition half, rinse and repeat.
From my experience of 2010/11, by the sixty minute mark the oppo will be wilting and any remaining shorty’s on the bench will be invited to deliver the coup de grace. |  | | |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 09:10 - Apr 2 with 1177 views | derbyhoop |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 22:58 - Apr 1 by KensalT |
My (totally unscientific) theory about playing out from the back is that you have more chance of success if you are on a big pitch. A big pitch means it's easier for your teammates to find space and forces the opposition to do more running if they want to close you down.
I remember the Brighton game in pre season where we just couldn't get into their half.
So maybe our small pitch is a factor in our inability to move the ball up the park.
The other factor is how to beat the opposition press. One option that can work is to just play the long ball into the space behind them. But for that to work you need pace up front and we simply haven't had much of that in recent years.
All of which might explain why we struggle to play out from the back and our results pick up when we try to be a bit more direct. |
Our ground nay be small, but the pitch size isn't radically different from other Championship pitches.
Small pitch at QPR is another myth. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 09:20 - Apr 2 with 1155 views | KensalT |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 09:10 - Apr 2 by derbyhoop |
Our ground nay be small, but the pitch size isn't radically different from other Championship pitches.
Small pitch at QPR is another myth. |
"Small pitch at QPR is another myth."
Got to disagree with you there.
These are the rankings for last season:
https://www.footballfancast.com/efl-championship-stadiums-pitch-sizes-ranked-big
Hull had the biggest pitch @ 7,696 metres (104m * 74m)
Ours was 22nd @ 6,732m (102m * 66m)
That's a difference of 964 square metres.
That looks significant to me. [Post edited 2 Apr 9:23]
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| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 11:10 - Apr 2 with 1001 views | thehat |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 08:26 - Apr 2 by stevec |
Great piece.
Have always thought there are good refs and bad refs but thankfully very few biased refs.
Often wondered if we go short because the players are short. Consequently we have our biggest players doing most of the passing when they’d probably suit the more physical aspect of the game, moving the ball onto central midfielders who, again, would probably enjoy a bit more physical interaction, then eventually onto the three tiny tens who are quickly dispossessed by their more rugged counterparts and on it goes. The centre forward, big small slow or quick is left to wonder whether he’ll ever be gainfully employed.
Personally, I’d like to see one team, any team, say enough of this. We will have a maximum of two, maybe one player, starting who is under six foot tall. The keeper will kick every ball into the opposition half whereby the intention is not necessarily win the first ball but, most definitely the second ball by sheer physical strength. On the rare occasions the oppo do retain the ball, the six foot backs will despatch ball and whatever happens to be in the way, back into the opposition half, rinse and repeat.
From my experience of 2010/11, by the sixty minute mark the oppo will be wilting and any remaining shorty’s on the bench will be invited to deliver the coup de grace. |
Firstly great read that thank you Andrew.
Yeah what I noticed about Sheffield United when they came to ours was how physically tall and strong they were.
Personally I bloody hate the playing out from the back and much prefer going long if the ball is in their half they can't score. Although because our squad could quite easy rendition as munchkins in The Wizard of Oz we have backed ourselves into a bit of a corner. However I notice when we ping it up and Jimmy has pushed forward we generally seem to create something even its winning a throw in their half.
I know I am Old Skool but it is also much better for my blood pressure!! | | | |
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| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 11:17 - Apr 2 with 990 views | KensalT |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 08:26 - Apr 2 by stevec |
Great piece.
Have always thought there are good refs and bad refs but thankfully very few biased refs.
Often wondered if we go short because the players are short. Consequently we have our biggest players doing most of the passing when they’d probably suit the more physical aspect of the game, moving the ball onto central midfielders who, again, would probably enjoy a bit more physical interaction, then eventually onto the three tiny tens who are quickly dispossessed by their more rugged counterparts and on it goes. The centre forward, big small slow or quick is left to wonder whether he’ll ever be gainfully employed.
Personally, I’d like to see one team, any team, say enough of this. We will have a maximum of two, maybe one player, starting who is under six foot tall. The keeper will kick every ball into the opposition half whereby the intention is not necessarily win the first ball but, most definitely the second ball by sheer physical strength. On the rare occasions the oppo do retain the ball, the six foot backs will despatch ball and whatever happens to be in the way, back into the opposition half, rinse and repeat.
From my experience of 2010/11, by the sixty minute mark the oppo will be wilting and any remaining shorty’s on the bench will be invited to deliver the coup de grace. |
"From my experience of 2010/11, by the sixty minute mark the oppo will be wilting and any remaining shorty’s on the bench will be invited to deliver the coup de grace."
Problem there is that since 2022 we've had five subs per game. So wearing the opposition down by making them chase the ball isn't as effective now:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60945430 | | | |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 11:31 - Apr 2 with 961 views | TheChef |
| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 11:10 - Apr 2 by thehat |
Firstly great read that thank you Andrew.
Yeah what I noticed about Sheffield United when they came to ours was how physically tall and strong they were.
Personally I bloody hate the playing out from the back and much prefer going long if the ball is in their half they can't score. Although because our squad could quite easy rendition as munchkins in The Wizard of Oz we have backed ourselves into a bit of a corner. However I notice when we ping it up and Jimmy has pushed forward we generally seem to create something even its winning a throw in their half.
I know I am Old Skool but it is also much better for my blood pressure!! |
Yeah tall and strong is kind of a pre-requisite for this division. Chris Wilder understands that, I'm not sure if anyone at our club does though.
As for the refs I think they're all trying their best, and inevitably there is a bit of home bias most of the time. Unfortunately for the most part I just think they're not good enough. [Post edited 2 Apr 12:44]
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| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 16:41 - Apr 2 with 659 views | R_from_afar |
Thank you so much to all concerned for this excellent analysis, we are so lucky to have it 
Do we have any way of getting it to the coaching staff? At the very least, they might find it interesting, plus it's free insight for them. It shows how much we care and how much the team's fate matters to us. We'll do anything to try and help, for us, it's not just about paying our money and screaming blue murder at our underperforming heroes. Goodness knows, the team needs help, we're on the slide. Again. 
It might also focus minds a little by making them realise that if the team does persist with tactics which don't work, sooner or later, there is the chance that a LFW contributor will produce some analysis which exposes its ineffectiveness. That's a general comment, by the way, not one aimed at playing out from the back.
I know, I am a hopeless dreamer  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Keepers going short, refs walking tall – Analysis on 21:36 - Apr 2 with 458 views | ozexile |
Playing out from the back in broken play is fine but to continually play out from goal kicks when the opposition is set and ready to close you down is madness IMO. | | | |
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