| Kone 20:51 - Jan 1 with 3701 views | stainrods_elbow |
He's not doing it, is he?
Is he up to it?
If not, where do he/we go from here? |  |
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| Kone on 09:55 - Jan 2 with 1153 views | Rsole |
| Kone on 09:42 - Jan 2 by mart_Goblin |
Excellent debate actually .
I totally understand the premise of ‘why on Earth would you drop Burrell?’
On the face of it, it doesn’t make much sense .
However , as I mentioned in another thread , we’ve been found out and at some point now the system surely has to change . Maybe not for Sunday as there is no time on the training pitch .
But at some point it has to . Kone looked at his best when played as the main striker with someone else (Vale at the time ) in and around him . However we need someone who can also drop into the midfield and be the extra man as we are constantly outnumbered in there . Chair perhaps ? Where he is , is another matter.
Kone much more than Burrell would suit that .
I do agree that would be harsh on Burrell but he is now running on empty and it really shows. Without his pace and press he is very ordinary …At this time .
He will improve and become a better player of course.
At the moment you now have both of them looking tired and a bit short of confidence (not just them, everybody really) . But I agree with Westbourne that if we changed system and played Kone where he should be played and has he was played to great success albeit at a lower level then he potentially could have a higher ceiling but he is just a passenger as it stands right now .
Listen, if you said who has been the better signing so far , Burrell wins hands down, so again, the thought of changing things seems a bit nonsensical.
But it’s about the system moreso the player .
As I say , it’s a good debate with no real right or wrong .However, JS seems so entrenched in this system I think it’s also an irrelevant discussion. |
As Kolli is now suddenly an option, why not start him with Kone and give Burrell a break for at least 60mins in the next game. Kolli can play out wide or centrally, slightly withdrawn so you can also play 433 and use an extra midfielder. If he’s shit, bring Burrell on.
If nothing else it’ll screw up Wednesday’s assumptions and planning plus there’s feck all to lose at this stage of the holiday season ahead of the WHAM game.
Didn’t they sing Last Xmas too ? |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Kone on 09:58 - Jan 2 with 1134 views | HamptonHoop |
| Kone on 21:12 - Jan 1 by LowerloftLad |
Personally I think he is getting the wrong service.
Get the ball to his feet in the box while he is facing the goal and he will score goals for fun.
As a club we now seem pretty good at finding gems but what we now need to adapt a style of play that will really make one player shine.
[Post edited 1 Jan 21:17]
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2024, Kone was playing in the Essex senior league.
I agree that we have found a gem, via Wycombe, and we need to polish it.
I didn't think he played badly against Norwich, some of the link up play between him and Burrell was very good.
Drifting out wide doesn't suit him or the rest of the team but I honestly think he is going to be a very good player for us. |  | | |
| Kone on 10:13 - Jan 2 with 1053 views | daveB |
I thought Burrell was the worse of the 2 yesterday, I'd have taken him off instead |  | | |
| Kone on 11:18 - Jan 2 with 950 views | Monkey_Roots |
I think its a perfect storm of both our wide players being out of form and Kone out of form/low on confidence...
He has the ability, we've seen that - the first few games he was 'wow!', but I don't know what has prevented that from continuing - maybe he compliments Burrell's style, but not vica versa. When Kone first hit those few in at the start, was Burrell starting, I seem to remember him being introduced from the bench. |  | | |
| Kone on 11:42 - Jan 2 with 882 views | TK1 |
He just needs a goal. Happens to all strikers - even those hailed on this thread such Furlong and Austen. Go through barren patches, look less than ordinary, pitchforks come out...score a goal, suddenly they are twice the player again. He looked good when he was scoring, now he's on this drought he looks clumsy and hesitant.
Only exception that I can think of as a young player at Rangers is Clive Allen. But neither Kone nor Burrell are Clive Allen, our most reliable 9. Even Les Ferdinand - not saying Kone is Les - but Les Ferdinand took a little while to hit his straps: 1990/91: 18 games, 8 goals; 91/92: 23 games, 10 goals...then he got really going. He was 26 then, though.
Kone is only 22. 22 in his first season at this level...cut him slack. He's definitely got a higher ceiling than Burrell who is 25 but they can grow together still.
Burrell is now five without a goal, too. They both need one. | | | |
| Kone on 12:50 - Jan 2 with 774 views | Paddyhoops |
| Kone on 09:25 - Jan 2 by oldmeadoniansR |
I would agree with this. Kone was poor at WBA but not yesterday. I watched him very carefully in the first half and he won nearly every 50-50 shielded the ball well distributed it with goid completion. With that in mind bit of an odd time to start a thread criticising him. I think it is important to remember where a number of our players have come from. Certainly Kone and Burrel are now playing at the highest level that they ever have. This is their first season at this level and in this context I believe they have done well. There you go a bit of positivity for you. |
Great post. | | | |
| Kone on 13:17 - Jan 2 with 743 views | Loyalitat |
| Kone on 11:42 - Jan 2 by TK1 |
He just needs a goal. Happens to all strikers - even those hailed on this thread such Furlong and Austen. Go through barren patches, look less than ordinary, pitchforks come out...score a goal, suddenly they are twice the player again. He looked good when he was scoring, now he's on this drought he looks clumsy and hesitant.
Only exception that I can think of as a young player at Rangers is Clive Allen. But neither Kone nor Burrell are Clive Allen, our most reliable 9. Even Les Ferdinand - not saying Kone is Les - but Les Ferdinand took a little while to hit his straps: 1990/91: 18 games, 8 goals; 91/92: 23 games, 10 goals...then he got really going. He was 26 then, though.
Kone is only 22. 22 in his first season at this level...cut him slack. He's definitely got a higher ceiling than Burrell who is 25 but they can grow together still.
Burrell is now five without a goal, too. They both need one. |
I get what you are saying, but 8 goals in 18 and 10 in 23 in Les' formative years, are not what I would use as proof of someone struggling to find the net. Especially when playing at Premier League level.
I think that both Kone and Burrell have done well to date in scoring 9 and 5 respectively in the league, as our service to them and poor standard of passing and ball-retention is hardly helping. They themselves aren't blameless in this regard too.
If our wide players, Chair excepted, cannot use their weaker foot very well, can we please just play them on the correct flank. Yesterday, Smyth should have started on the right and Dembele on the left along with full-backs overlapping on occasions. Dembele v Preston and Saito delivering the cross when he found himself on the right v Brum are some examples of players delivering crosses in open play on their stronger side to telling effect.
When watching football highlights, most goals scored from crosses in open play stem from what I would call the conventional route and rarely from inverted wide players cutting back onto their stronger foot and delivering into areas where defenders are facing away from their goal and the threat posed is minimal. [Post edited 2 Jan 13:53]
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| Kone on 13:18 - Jan 2 with 740 views | Northernr |
I think Kone's doing well all things considered. |  | | |
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| Kone on 13:49 - Jan 2 with 656 views | TK1 |
| Kone on 13:17 - Jan 2 by Loyalitat |
I get what you are saying, but 8 goals in 18 and 10 in 23 in Les' formative years, are not what I would use as proof of someone struggling to find the net. Especially when playing at Premier League level.
I think that both Kone and Burrell have done well to date in scoring 9 and 5 respectively in the league, as our service to them and poor standard of passing and ball-retention is hardly helping. They themselves aren't blameless in this regard too.
If our wide players, Chair excepted, cannot use their weaker foot very well, can we please just play them on the correct flank. Yesterday, Smyth should have started on the right and Dembele on the left along with full-backs overlapping on occasions. Dembele v Preston and Saito delivering the cross when he found himself on the right v Brum are some examples of players delivering crosses in open play on their stronger side to telling effect.
When watching football highlights, most goals scored from crosses in open play stem from what I would call the conventional route and rarely from inverted wide players cutting back onto their stronger foot and delivering into areas where defenders are facing away from their goal and the threat posed is minimal. [Post edited 2 Jan 13:53]
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When Ferdinand was the same age as Kone, he played two games all season and scored none. The next year, 23 going on 24, he played nine and scored two (in the same match).
Let's see how Kone's doing when he's 25, 26, the age Les started scoring more often. I agree with Clive: I think he's doing well for a 22 year-old new to this level.
Edit: strongly agree about not using inverted wingers [Post edited 2 Jan 13:50]
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| Kone on 13:51 - Jan 2 with 636 views | Hunterhoop |
| Kone on 13:17 - Jan 2 by Loyalitat |
I get what you are saying, but 8 goals in 18 and 10 in 23 in Les' formative years, are not what I would use as proof of someone struggling to find the net. Especially when playing at Premier League level.
I think that both Kone and Burrell have done well to date in scoring 9 and 5 respectively in the league, as our service to them and poor standard of passing and ball-retention is hardly helping. They themselves aren't blameless in this regard too.
If our wide players, Chair excepted, cannot use their weaker foot very well, can we please just play them on the correct flank. Yesterday, Smyth should have started on the right and Dembele on the left along with full-backs overlapping on occasions. Dembele v Preston and Saito delivering the cross when he found himself on the right v Brum are some examples of players delivering crosses in open play on their stronger side to telling effect.
When watching football highlights, most goals scored from crosses in open play stem from what I would call the conventional route and rarely from inverted wide players cutting back onto their stronger foot and delivering into areas where defenders are facing away from their goal and the threat posed is minimal. [Post edited 2 Jan 13:53]
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Great post.
This is a real bugbear of mine with Stephan. I don’t like inverted wingers at the best of times but when you play 442, it is madness. It makes the middle of the pitch so congested if your wide players are cutting inside. It’s so easy to defend against. Whereas, if your wide players stay wide and try to beat their man on the outside it stretches the opposition defence widthways and creates more space for Kone and Burrell in the middle. Equally, delivered from wide areas and the byline play to their strengths too.
If you ask the width to come from the full backs in a 442, you are going to leave yourself open as you only have a 2 man central midfield with which to cover if a ball is cleared and a counter attack on. Whilst Madsen has done a decent job at covering this season, Varane has been poor at it and is often slow to get back.
Saito can go both ways so can provide width on the left. Smyth can on the right. I’d like to see the rest of them play on their stronger foot side too. I’d like at least one of the wingers to be on their natural side offering width and a threat on the outside and getting to the byline. It’s the Championship. It isn’t rocket science. |  | | |
| Kone on 13:55 - Jan 2 with 610 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Kone on 13:51 - Jan 2 by Hunterhoop |
Great post.
This is a real bugbear of mine with Stephan. I don’t like inverted wingers at the best of times but when you play 442, it is madness. It makes the middle of the pitch so congested if your wide players are cutting inside. It’s so easy to defend against. Whereas, if your wide players stay wide and try to beat their man on the outside it stretches the opposition defence widthways and creates more space for Kone and Burrell in the middle. Equally, delivered from wide areas and the byline play to their strengths too.
If you ask the width to come from the full backs in a 442, you are going to leave yourself open as you only have a 2 man central midfield with which to cover if a ball is cleared and a counter attack on. Whilst Madsen has done a decent job at covering this season, Varane has been poor at it and is often slow to get back.
Saito can go both ways so can provide width on the left. Smyth can on the right. I’d like to see the rest of them play on their stronger foot side too. I’d like at least one of the wingers to be on their natural side offering width and a threat on the outside and getting to the byline. It’s the Championship. It isn’t rocket science. |
It's been a bugbear of mine for a wee while. With so many wide options there really is no need to play inverted wingers. Get to the by-line and deliver. |  | | |
| Kone on 13:58 - Jan 2 with 593 views | Loyalitat |
| Kone on 13:55 - Jan 2 by Benny_the_Ball |
It's been a bugbear of mine for a wee while. With so many wide options there really is no need to play inverted wingers. Get to the by-line and deliver. |
Bang on. | | | |
| Kone on 14:27 - Jan 2 with 518 views | CateLeBonR |
| Kone on 13:55 - Jan 2 by Benny_the_Ball |
It's been a bugbear of mine for a wee while. With so many wide options there really is no need to play inverted wingers. Get to the by-line and deliver. |
I'm not so sure there's a big problem with the system itself but it's the application of the system. Our attacking mids/wingers were miscontrolling the ball, misplacing passes, making poor decisions, not shooting, not crossing (or crossing badly) and were generally being a bit crap all night. [Post edited 2 Jan 14:27]
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| Kone on 14:45 - Jan 2 with 483 views | strikerace |
Kone is being hurt by the style we are playing. Its an effort to get both Kone and Burrell on the pitch together, which I agree with by the way. Kone has shifted deeper, with Burrell being up top so he can stretch the pitch on longer balls. We are 9th in scoring so far, so it has worked to some extent.
I do not think Kone is playing poorly, he is still doing some good things out there, but his opportunities to score have been reduced. The unfortunate thing is that in this deeper role, Kolli may be a better fit | | | |
| Kone on 18:01 - Jan 2 with 337 views | LazyFan |
Kone played well against Norwich. He won a lot of headers that Burrell failed to pick up. His link play was decent too.
The problem is this ....
Teams have worked us out in that we play down the wings, so what they do now is pack the wings when we are defending. This means Kone and Burrell do not get the service they need, and the gaps are in the middle, which we cannot exploit with Varane and Madsen, who play too deep. This is because, as we know, Madsen will get passed by if he plays higher up the pitch, as he cannot get up and down in time, and Varane is on his own then.
What needs to happen is Varane and Madsen need to own that middle more, which will draw players away from the wings and allow our wingers to get into the game.
Three times its happened now and we have lost 2 of those games. JS needs to sort that out quick. |  |
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| Kone on 19:07 - Jan 2 with 270 views | mart_Goblin |
| Kone on 18:01 - Jan 2 by LazyFan |
Kone played well against Norwich. He won a lot of headers that Burrell failed to pick up. His link play was decent too.
The problem is this ....
Teams have worked us out in that we play down the wings, so what they do now is pack the wings when we are defending. This means Kone and Burrell do not get the service they need, and the gaps are in the middle, which we cannot exploit with Varane and Madsen, who play too deep. This is because, as we know, Madsen will get passed by if he plays higher up the pitch, as he cannot get up and down in time, and Varane is on his own then.
What needs to happen is Varane and Madsen need to own that middle more, which will draw players away from the wings and allow our wingers to get into the game.
Three times its happened now and we have lost 2 of those games. JS needs to sort that out quick. |
You make some great points .
“ What needs to happen is Varane and Madsen need to own that middle more, which will draw players away from the wings and allow our wingers to get into the game.”
Only slight thing is the above , where it’s very difficult to own anything when you are almost always outnumbered.
As I’ve said previously and apologies for boring folk on here , but surely the formation has to change. If for no other reason to catch people out for a week or 2 ala Charlton earlier in the season.
We let McLean completely run the game yesterday and my fear for Sunday is Barry Basstard Bannan yet again !!! [Post edited 2 Jan 19:14]
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