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Remain With or Leave the EU on 16:15 - Jun 15 by blueytheblue
It's one thing to mention Thatcher but it's apples and oranges.
As more nations join, it dilutes the voice Britain or any other single nation ( possibly Germany excepted ) has.
People say "can't influence if not inside" but reality belies that.
Cameron went to renegotiate. Any concession by the EU Cameron could have used as a bone to throw to the electorate for the referendum. "See? We can negotiate".
EU gave nothing, nadda, zip and disparaged the outcome almost immediately. So in a situation where the EU want us to stay, they couldn't even concede something of note to smooth the process.
If the EU have that distain now, who thinks it's magically going to improve?
Poor argument.
That's like saying I don't want my club to be successful and become established in the world's greatest football league and attract more fans as my voice will be diluted.
Sorry, forgot you were a Cardiff fan and may find the analogy difficult to understand.
Britain has never really recovered from the War, the damage to our economy through debt, damage to infrastructure and the eventual fall of the British Empire. We can't really accept that although a big player we're not at the forefront of others nations priorities.
We joined the common market in the 70's as we were becoming a declining force, a relic.
To me it's a stop the World I want to get off vote - you either embrace change or you manage decline. That's the choice.
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:07 - Jun 15 with 1521 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 15:41 - Jun 15 by donkeylabour
One thing this referendum has done on a personal level is make me more pro immigration rather than less. I've always believed we let in too many and still do. It's like animals many are nicer than humans, I find some of our white trash far more depressing than many of the hard working immigrants who come in. I respect the past, but I always look to the future.
Immigration is a key issue and needs tightening up, the irony is it has been non eu has been reducing take away students and the benefits element of eu migrants have been reformed. We need at a European level to bring in more controls but as Lisa said its ridiculous to suggest we'll be back to 1950's Britain by leaving EU it will at best reduce immigration slightly. The World has changed, we are more interconnected and global. This debate should have happened when that idiot Blair opened the floodgates, we can't turn back the clock.
There was a documentary/news item on the other night where an interviewer and film crew had set up in some godforsaken bingo hall, slash, ‘working mens’ club in the North East I think. (How do they find these places? I’m convinced that TV companies employ teams of hovel sniffers trained to track the scent of spliff, attack dogs, Lynx and emaciated hags). Anyway, a half dozen or so dentally deficient local ladies were being questioned regarding their likely vote in the referendum and - surprise, surprise - they were, all of them, minded to vote for Brexit because (as one of them stated enthusiastically (or rather cackled inanely)) it was time to put the ‘Great’ back into Britain (or similar). And, at the point where she finished saying the word ‘Brittn’ and her cracked lips formed into a hideous grin, any lingering doubts I had about my instinctive remain vote vanished completely — a moment of clarity if you like. And so, on the 23 June they will stride out, these modern day Bodiceas, to the polling station — flip flops, ankle tattoos and 2 month old toe varnish - through some desolate, dog shat ravaged northern ghetto, imbued with a perverse fusion of patriotism and racial superiority, and reeking of a late morning fag/cider/fry up combo, to put a tick in the box for Blighty. They are of course the same types booking cheap holidays to places in southern Europe; that they are unlikely to be able to pronounce or locate on a map, where they will (probably) consume liver pickling quantities of alco-pops, contract some localised gonorrhoea super variant (entirely possible and possibly knowingly) and compete to see who can develop the largest melanoma (almost definitely and possibly unknowingly). Oh yes! I can just imagine Penny (Mordaunt - French name) and ‘Pretty’ (Patel - Indian name I guess) discussing with these lovelies the feminist economic benefits of Brexit and the possible reduction in the cost of casual rubber footwear over a convivial Pimms or fourteen; that engagement wouldn’t register at all on their frightful & ghastly monitors, would it? And I’m certain that Gove (Scottish name), Farage (French Name) and Sir ob Nosnhoj (thoroughly British ancestry) are straining to align themselves proudly with this bunch of Brexit babes — not me thanks, I’m in! A sudden and uncontrolled influx of Romanian gangsters wielding garage manufactured hand guns and the latest line in credit card cloning techno-gadgetry appeals more, frankly. That last bit is over the top I admit.
It is however going to be massively interesting if Tribe Brexit prevails, the coverage thus far will pale.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:24 - Jun 15 with 1505 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 15:49 - Jun 15 by donkeylabour
Yes Germany are literally pleading with us to stay because we have a lot in common, two moderate conservative governments with a belief in opening up markets and similar economies.
If we leave it really could precipitate the end as the balance will shift. Germany needs our leadership this goes all the way back to the formation of the eu, one of the reasons we've had problems since is that we walked away from talks right at the time of the treaty of Rome.
I'd rather we were shaping policy than sitting there hoping for the best. Just makes sense to me.
Also they would have to make up our net contribution themselves. None of the others have any money.
If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:25 - Jun 15 with 1505 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:07 - Jun 15 by westwiltsjack
There was a documentary/news item on the other night where an interviewer and film crew had set up in some godforsaken bingo hall, slash, ‘working mens’ club in the North East I think. (How do they find these places? I’m convinced that TV companies employ teams of hovel sniffers trained to track the scent of spliff, attack dogs, Lynx and emaciated hags). Anyway, a half dozen or so dentally deficient local ladies were being questioned regarding their likely vote in the referendum and - surprise, surprise - they were, all of them, minded to vote for Brexit because (as one of them stated enthusiastically (or rather cackled inanely)) it was time to put the ‘Great’ back into Britain (or similar). And, at the point where she finished saying the word ‘Brittn’ and her cracked lips formed into a hideous grin, any lingering doubts I had about my instinctive remain vote vanished completely — a moment of clarity if you like. And so, on the 23 June they will stride out, these modern day Bodiceas, to the polling station — flip flops, ankle tattoos and 2 month old toe varnish - through some desolate, dog shat ravaged northern ghetto, imbued with a perverse fusion of patriotism and racial superiority, and reeking of a late morning fag/cider/fry up combo, to put a tick in the box for Blighty. They are of course the same types booking cheap holidays to places in southern Europe; that they are unlikely to be able to pronounce or locate on a map, where they will (probably) consume liver pickling quantities of alco-pops, contract some localised gonorrhoea super variant (entirely possible and possibly knowingly) and compete to see who can develop the largest melanoma (almost definitely and possibly unknowingly). Oh yes! I can just imagine Penny (Mordaunt - French name) and ‘Pretty’ (Patel - Indian name I guess) discussing with these lovelies the feminist economic benefits of Brexit and the possible reduction in the cost of casual rubber footwear over a convivial Pimms or fourteen; that engagement wouldn’t register at all on their frightful & ghastly monitors, would it? And I’m certain that Gove (Scottish name), Farage (French Name) and Sir ob Nosnhoj (thoroughly British ancestry) are straining to align themselves proudly with this bunch of Brexit babes — not me thanks, I’m in! A sudden and uncontrolled influx of Romanian gangsters wielding garage manufactured hand guns and the latest line in credit card cloning techno-gadgetry appeals more, frankly. That last bit is over the top I admit.
It is however going to be massively interesting if Tribe Brexit prevails, the coverage thus far will pale.
You should join our discussions more often.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:38 - Jun 15 with 1494 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 16:31 - Jun 15 by dailew
Poor argument.
That's like saying I don't want my club to be successful and become established in the world's greatest football league and attract more fans as my voice will be diluted.
Sorry, forgot you were a Cardiff fan and may find the analogy difficult to understand.
Oh look, ad hominem. How quaint.
Nice to see your counter argument completely refuted my post. Not.
Now again, address the point if you can or don't reply...
Britain had a referendum upcoming. EU agree some semblance of what anybody with a brain cell would call a deal and bam! Cameron can then campaign to stay with the example of having had influence...
Instead, he's had to champion a nothing deal EU leaders and officials have disparaged, a big FU from the EU telling all and sundry Britain has zero influence.
EU is the political equivalent of the world's greatest football league? I mean... seriously?
The point of dilution is an incredibly serious and pertinent one.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:07 - Jun 15 by westwiltsjack
There was a documentary/news item on the other night where an interviewer and film crew had set up in some godforsaken bingo hall, slash, ‘working mens’ club in the North East I think. (How do they find these places? I’m convinced that TV companies employ teams of hovel sniffers trained to track the scent of spliff, attack dogs, Lynx and emaciated hags). Anyway, a half dozen or so dentally deficient local ladies were being questioned regarding their likely vote in the referendum and - surprise, surprise - they were, all of them, minded to vote for Brexit because (as one of them stated enthusiastically (or rather cackled inanely)) it was time to put the ‘Great’ back into Britain (or similar). And, at the point where she finished saying the word ‘Brittn’ and her cracked lips formed into a hideous grin, any lingering doubts I had about my instinctive remain vote vanished completely — a moment of clarity if you like. And so, on the 23 June they will stride out, these modern day Bodiceas, to the polling station — flip flops, ankle tattoos and 2 month old toe varnish - through some desolate, dog shat ravaged northern ghetto, imbued with a perverse fusion of patriotism and racial superiority, and reeking of a late morning fag/cider/fry up combo, to put a tick in the box for Blighty. They are of course the same types booking cheap holidays to places in southern Europe; that they are unlikely to be able to pronounce or locate on a map, where they will (probably) consume liver pickling quantities of alco-pops, contract some localised gonorrhoea super variant (entirely possible and possibly knowingly) and compete to see who can develop the largest melanoma (almost definitely and possibly unknowingly). Oh yes! I can just imagine Penny (Mordaunt - French name) and ‘Pretty’ (Patel - Indian name I guess) discussing with these lovelies the feminist economic benefits of Brexit and the possible reduction in the cost of casual rubber footwear over a convivial Pimms or fourteen; that engagement wouldn’t register at all on their frightful & ghastly monitors, would it? And I’m certain that Gove (Scottish name), Farage (French Name) and Sir ob Nosnhoj (thoroughly British ancestry) are straining to align themselves proudly with this bunch of Brexit babes — not me thanks, I’m in! A sudden and uncontrolled influx of Romanian gangsters wielding garage manufactured hand guns and the latest line in credit card cloning techno-gadgetry appeals more, frankly. That last bit is over the top I admit.
It is however going to be massively interesting if Tribe Brexit prevails, the coverage thus far will pale.
Haha brilliant
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:38 - Jun 15 by blueytheblue
Oh look, ad hominem. How quaint.
Nice to see your counter argument completely refuted my post. Not.
Now again, address the point if you can or don't reply...
Britain had a referendum upcoming. EU agree some semblance of what anybody with a brain cell would call a deal and bam! Cameron can then campaign to stay with the example of having had influence...
Instead, he's had to champion a nothing deal EU leaders and officials have disparaged, a big FU from the EU telling all and sundry Britain has zero influence.
EU is the political equivalent of the world's greatest football league? I mean... seriously?
The point of dilution is an incredibly serious and pertinent one.
Woeful argument.
"As more nations join, it dilutes the voice Britain or any other single nation ( possibly Germany excepted ) has. "
You shouldn't expect to have the same influence if more countries join. That's mad.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:54 - Jun 15 by dailew
"As more nations join, it dilutes the voice Britain or any other single nation ( possibly Germany excepted ) has. "
You shouldn't expect to have the same influence if more countries join. That's mad.
Agreed. Which makes the "better to influence from inside" argument flawed.
For example, precisely how many Eastern European members would vote to prevent EU migrants getting benefits, health care et al? Precisely none, they want to reduce their own costs...
The "single nation veto" will soon be dispensed with. If it's not, the whole thing will get gridlocked as more nations join... everything could theoretically get vetoed based upon that.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:07 - Jun 15 by westwiltsjack
There was a documentary/news item on the other night where an interviewer and film crew had set up in some godforsaken bingo hall, slash, ‘working mens’ club in the North East I think. (How do they find these places? I’m convinced that TV companies employ teams of hovel sniffers trained to track the scent of spliff, attack dogs, Lynx and emaciated hags). Anyway, a half dozen or so dentally deficient local ladies were being questioned regarding their likely vote in the referendum and - surprise, surprise - they were, all of them, minded to vote for Brexit because (as one of them stated enthusiastically (or rather cackled inanely)) it was time to put the ‘Great’ back into Britain (or similar). And, at the point where she finished saying the word ‘Brittn’ and her cracked lips formed into a hideous grin, any lingering doubts I had about my instinctive remain vote vanished completely — a moment of clarity if you like. And so, on the 23 June they will stride out, these modern day Bodiceas, to the polling station — flip flops, ankle tattoos and 2 month old toe varnish - through some desolate, dog shat ravaged northern ghetto, imbued with a perverse fusion of patriotism and racial superiority, and reeking of a late morning fag/cider/fry up combo, to put a tick in the box for Blighty. They are of course the same types booking cheap holidays to places in southern Europe; that they are unlikely to be able to pronounce or locate on a map, where they will (probably) consume liver pickling quantities of alco-pops, contract some localised gonorrhoea super variant (entirely possible and possibly knowingly) and compete to see who can develop the largest melanoma (almost definitely and possibly unknowingly). Oh yes! I can just imagine Penny (Mordaunt - French name) and ‘Pretty’ (Patel - Indian name I guess) discussing with these lovelies the feminist economic benefits of Brexit and the possible reduction in the cost of casual rubber footwear over a convivial Pimms or fourteen; that engagement wouldn’t register at all on their frightful & ghastly monitors, would it? And I’m certain that Gove (Scottish name), Farage (French Name) and Sir ob Nosnhoj (thoroughly British ancestry) are straining to align themselves proudly with this bunch of Brexit babes — not me thanks, I’m in! A sudden and uncontrolled influx of Romanian gangsters wielding garage manufactured hand guns and the latest line in credit card cloning techno-gadgetry appeals more, frankly. That last bit is over the top I admit.
It is however going to be massively interesting if Tribe Brexit prevails, the coverage thus far will pale.
What an awful and desperate post......if I was undecided on which way to vote, after reading this pompous load of cr*p it would most definitely be OUT.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:56 - Jun 15 by donkeylabour
A quick question to the leavers:
What if you're wrong, what if the scare stories are right? What then?
What if we are right about the EU and we stay in? What then? Well we know the answer to this question as it has been laid out for us by the EU elite themselves and can be seen by the announcements that are currently being withheld from being made because it will weaken the Remain arguments even more.
So if the scare stories turn out to be true we will at least be in control of our own destiny, unlike if we stay in the EU, where our destiny has already been mapped out for us along with the rest of Europe.
However ours is not the only country that can see what is coming and do not like it, so there will be others fighting for refendums and there is going to be massive unrest as the Euro as well as immigration do not work. Even the French are having problems and they do not even obey EU rules and when asked why they do not have to, Brussels Reps shrug and say "it is bacause they are French". Perhaps if we stay in we should also be "French".
[Post edited 15 Jun 2016 18:19]
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:16 - Jun 15 with 1443 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:13 - Jun 15 by Flashberryjack
What an awful and desperate post......if I was undecided on which way to vote, after reading this pompous load of cr*p it would most definitely be OUT.
I didn't see any desperation in the post whatsoever
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:19 - Jun 15 with 1435 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:24 - Jun 15 by nice_to_michu
No, I didn't.
How was it desperate? It wasn't like the poster was saying "you should vote this way or that way".
Anyway, a half dozen or so dentally deficient local ladies were being questioned regarding their likely vote in the referendum and - surprise, surprise - they were, all of them, minded to vote for Brexit because (as one of them stated enthusiastically (or rather cackled inanely)) it was time to put the ‘Great’ back into Britain (or similar)
Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:32 - Jun 15 by Flashberryjack
Anyway, a half dozen or so dentally deficient local ladies were being questioned regarding their likely vote in the referendum and - surprise, surprise - they were, all of them, minded to vote for Brexit because (as one of them stated enthusiastically (or rather cackled inanely)) it was time to put the ‘Great’ back into Britain (or similar)
Eh, don't see anything desperate with what you just copied from the post. But never mind, let's move on.
Was the post an accurate portrayal of all Brexiters? Of course not. But I do think there are a heck of a lot of voters who think Brexit will "put the Great back into Great Britain".
I can understand some reasons to want to leave, but immigration, accountability or "taking back Great Britain" (an awful phrase often used by Donald Trump) is not one of them.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:19 - Jun 15 with 1373 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:56 - Jun 15 by donkeylabour
A quick question to the leavers:
What if you're wrong, what if the scare stories are right? What then?
Then we deal with it.
They are not though as I'm sure you know, especially as you even refer to them a scare stories.
The Osbourne "emergency budget" propaganda today was just utterly ludicrous for starters as there is no way he would a) get that through the Commons or b) probably even be in position as chancellor to attempt to do so.
It made we wonder just how bad the Remain campaign's internal polling must be for him to feel the need to pull that particular rabbit out of the hat.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:37 - Jun 15 with 1352 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:59 - Jun 15 by nice_to_michu
Eh, don't see anything desperate with what you just copied from the post. But never mind, let's move on.
Was the post an accurate portrayal of all Brexiters? Of course not. But I do think there are a heck of a lot of voters who think Brexit will "put the Great back into Great Britain".
I can understand some reasons to want to leave, but immigration, accountability or "taking back Great Britain" (an awful phrase often used by Donald Trump) is not one of them.
Immigration is a massive problem, whether you think it or not, maybe not the only one but a massive one nevertheless.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:19 - Jun 15 by NeathJack
Then we deal with it.
They are not though as I'm sure you know, especially as you even refer to them a scare stories.
The Osbourne "emergency budget" propaganda today was just utterly ludicrous for starters as there is no way he would a) get that through the Commons or b) probably even be in position as chancellor to attempt to do so.
It made we wonder just how bad the Remain campaign's internal polling must be for him to feel the need to pull that particular rabbit out of the hat.
They are totally desperate.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:57 - Jun 15 with 1324 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:37 - Jun 15 by Flashberryjack
Immigration is a massive problem, whether you think it or not, maybe not the only one but a massive one nevertheless.
The problem is though, that when anyone tries to explain why Brexit doesn't really have an impact on immigration as I and others have done just today, it's ignored.
A few hours later we hear the same cry about immigration because when it comes down to it - that's what it's all about for the majority of brexiters.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 20:03 - Jun 15 with 1316 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:37 - Jun 15 by Flashberryjack
Immigration is a massive problem, whether you think it or not, maybe not the only one but a massive one nevertheless.
Illegal immigration is a problem, yes. Brexit would do nothing to influence illegal immigration. The problem in Calais is not an EU problem.
Half of the legal immigrants are from outside the EU. Again, not an EU problem.
So you're left with the other half (about 150,000). The other half of EU immigrants cannot access to benefits unless they are in work for a period of time. If they are in work, then they are contributing to our economy.
Are there some legal EU immigrants that are costing us money? Sure. I have no doubt that some have had expensive operations since living here, some have brought young families that require education etc, and some have had run-ins with the police. But does it outweigh the benefits of immigration and EU membership? No. If you don't want to take my word for it, just look at the study by the London School of Economics on the costs/benefits of immigration.
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