| Third Covid Wave 10:36 - Jul 16 with 57654 views | Sadoldgit |
Infection and hospital rates climbing rapidly. Death rates projected at 200 per day. Nearly 4m people at serious risk. New information coming out about the problems Covid cause the body if it doesn’t kill you. People laid up for the best part of a year with serious complications. Concern over the AstraZenica vaccine. Is it really wise to lift most of the restrictions on Monday? We have been told that we aren’t going back into another lockdown situation no matter what, but Whitty seems to think it might have to be on the cards. [Post edited 18 Jul 2021 9:29]
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| Third Covid Wave on 14:15 - Nov 27 with 1168 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:12 - Nov 27 by DorsetIan |
You stated it very explicitly. I asked you in terms whether doctors and scientists were trying to improve health outcomes and you stated a very clear ‘no’. (Hence my subsequent question as to what they were trying to do, which you didn’t answer).
Here’s another one for you: what medical or scientific qualifications do you have? |
I can't be arsed ..but for clarity ..copy and paste the entire post along with your initial point and see if anyone else has the same difficulty you're having in understanding my response..you obviously need assistance. |  |
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| Third Covid Wave on 14:16 - Nov 27 with 1168 views | DorsetIan |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:09 - Nov 27 by saint68 |
Oh it's definitely been answered..you are just being a complete Plum as per usual. |
Did you answer on another thread perhaps?
To help readers of this forum, are you able to complete the following sentence…
‘Doctors and scientists are not trying to improve health outcomes, they are trying to….’ | |
| |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:21 - Nov 27 with 1162 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:16 - Nov 27 by DorsetIan |
Did you answer on another thread perhaps?
To help readers of this forum, are you able to complete the following sentence…
‘Doctors and scientists are not trying to improve health outcomes, they are trying to….’ |
Deary me, you are such a sad little gimp...its Been answered..if you can't understand that, then you are in need of help. | |
| |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:48 - Nov 27 with 1137 views | Jellybaby |
| Third Covid Wave on 19:33 - Nov 26 by DorsetIan |
If doctors and scientists aren’t trying in good faith to improve health outcomes, what are they trying to do? |
Ian, I know this has been a recurring theme for you, maybe this article from Dr Lucie Wilk, which tallies up exactly with my doctor friend will be of some help in getting your head round how this all works;
AS an NHS hospital doctor, I have had a front-row seat as the drama of the coronavirus pandemic has unfolded. It has been a year and a half of confusion, frustration and anger for me as I’ve watched our profession drawn into complicity with what I anticipate will be regarded as one of the most egregious public health disasters in history.
I have watched as ‘the science’ has been presented on the national stage flanked by Union Jack flags as an unassailable truth. For something so apparently inviolable, it seems to shift and change disconcertingly from week to week, and for those of us looking beneath the pomp to the plain data, we see the rather unexciting (and unchanging) truth: the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, as it turns out, has a much lower infection fatality rate than early predictions. It is less deadly than the seasonal flu in children. The Office for National Statistics has reported the mean age of a Covid-attributed death in the UK to be 80.3 years, slightly older than deaths from other causes (78.2 years over the comparable time period).
What has been most upsetting for me has been the unquestioning compliance from the medical community as increasingly draconian, non-evidence-based and destructive virus control measures have been implemented. Some of the overt corruption, financial conflict of interests and politicisation has been laid bare in editorials in prominent medical journals such as the BMJ. But the vast majority of doctors have had no interest in asking questions or looking further.
My concern over our professional passivity turned to alarm as our compliance required us to support the roll-out of an experimental vaccine to a trusting population.
Contrary to the basic tenets of evidence-based medicine, pronouncing an experimental medical intervention ‘safe and effective’ now does not seem to require any peer-reviewed evidence of safety or clinically meaningful efficacy. The vaccines have not been shown in clinical trials to reduce transmission, hospitalisation or death. The phase 3 trials are not over and the safety data is not complete; the earliest trials will run into 2023.
The consent form for the Covid-19 vaccine does not disclose its status as an unlicensed experimental product. The risks remain largely unknown, although it is becoming clear that the vaccine has resulted in death or injury in a rising number of healthy people. A growing number of vaccine-induced syndromes are being recognised, including immune thrombotic thrombocytopaenia, myocarditis and menstrual irregularities, among many others being published in the literature. At the time of writing, there have been more than 380,000 reports, 1.2million injuries and 1,700 fatalities submitted under the MHRA Yellow Card scheme.
The Prime Minister himself has communicated the latest evidence, that two doses of the vaccine do not stop one contracting the virus, nor do they stop person-to-person transmission, they merely reduce the severity of symptoms. Despite this, it is clear the public are being subjected to a relentless media campaign of shame and coercion, that they must take this experimental product ‘for the greater good’ lest they be viewed as selfish cowards. A vaccine passport is now likely to be rolled out under ‘Plan B’, which proposes to return unlawfully usurped fundamental human rights and freedoms to only the vaccinated. Workers in the care home sector have had their livelihoods tethered to their compliance with the vaccine mandates, and a recent announcement confirms that this will soon include NHS employees. Not only is there no scientific basis for these mandates, these coercive actions breach the Nuremberg Code, as does the unprecedented lack of animal safety data for a novel medical product. A betrayal of the Nuremberg Code constitutes a crime against humanity.
It does not end there. The campaign marches on, and now includes the vaccination of children against a disease that has a statistically negligible chance of harming them. In the world of evidence-based medicine we doctors must weigh risks and benefits, we must ensure the risk of harm is far exceeded by the potential for protection or cure. In this case, with no real risk to healthy children from the infection, any harm is utterly unjustifiable. And the risk of harm is very real and measurable. Vaccine-related myocarditis is now a recognised injury, the risk inversely proportionate to age. Although rare, myocarditis can be fatal, and fatality is more common in the younger population. For reasons that have nothing to do with health, and despite the JCVI advisory board concluding that the health benefits do not outweigh the risks to children, the government is advising that we administer a medicine that carries a risk of serious injury to children who are healthy and who have no significant risk from the disease it purports to protect them against.
Despite all this, and despite our training to look at scientific literature and data with a critical eye, the silence from the medical community in the UK has been deafening. Yet we are the ones who should be shouting all of this from the rooftops. This is a duty of care and an oath we have forgotten.
It is typically those of us most conditioned by the expectations of society, utterly obedient and deferent to authority, who gain entry to medicine. One can see the path: we were good, compliant children and then good, compliant students. Now we are good, compliant doctors. I’m beginning to understand that goodness is measured in a different way, and obedience is not a virtue.
Obedience is learned through fear, threat and intimidation; it is in fact trauma programming and achieved through small control gestures when we were young and helpless. Now we are adults but still operating under these childhood programmes of beliefs and fears. We still feel helpless and beholden to a higher authority. We still submit to an authoritative decree even when it overrides our inherent moral compass.
The horrors of the classic Milgram experiment demonstrated that we live in a deeply traumatised culture, and the same conditioning, in my view, has shaped the medical community and its silence.
Even on the occasion when my counter-narrative evidence cannot be denied by a colleague, the usual response is: ‘It’s coming from the government; our hands are tied.’ But the truth is that most of the time doctors don’t want to see the evidence; their subconscious has prevented them seeing that the parent-like authorities of government, Sage and the MHRA, upon which we project a childlike trust, might be misguided, corrupted or dishonest.
And so we comment to each other on all the changes we are witnessing months into the vaccine roll-out: the unseasonal surge in hospital admissions, the post-jab autoimmune conditions and coagulation disorders, the numbers of ‘double-jabbed’ patients admitted with severe Covid infection, the numbers of lives ruined by lockdown and other Covid control policies. I challenge any doctor to deny that all of this simply feels wrong. To avoid this uncomfortable, authentic, human feeling — important information that should be acted upon — we will reach for something rote. ‘Anecdote is not evidence’ and ‘association is not causation’ will be the justification for carrying on, no questions asked, even though most of the damaging control measures implemented from on high were not based on any evidence at all. Meanwhile, an already struggling NHS has been damaged beyond repair by many of these policies. We are overwhelmed by the demand that we cannot meet, and the complexity of the crisis feels far beyond just one hospital Trust. The locus of responsibility to investigate remains above us and we wait for someone with more authority to come round and make sense of it.
And as we remain silent, the destruction continues.
Most of us went into medicine for the right reasons: to help the vulnerable, to reduce suffering. I know my colleagues are kind and well-intentioned and that their faith in our unelected public health policymakers is the result of a lifetime of conditioning. For those of us who have looked at the data and see the truth, I understand the fear: the risk of non-conformity is immense; careers, reputations and livelihoods are at stake. I recognise an even larger threat: a threat to our chosen profession, our life purpose, the possibility that we have been following a false god in our honest intentions to help the ill. We are at a difficult crossroads, but the choice for me is clear.
Although I am not on the front line in the ‘fight’ against coronavirus, and have had nothing to do with the vaccine campaign, I feel complicit in this public deception. I can no longer hide within a system that has proved itself to be weak-willed and unwilling to stand against the irrevocable erosion of inalienable human rights and freedoms in the name of public health safety. It is past the time for us to grow up, stand up and speak out. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
| |
| Third Covid Wave on 17:19 - Nov 27 with 1102 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:48 - Nov 27 by Jellybaby |
Ian, I know this has been a recurring theme for you, maybe this article from Dr Lucie Wilk, which tallies up exactly with my doctor friend will be of some help in getting your head round how this all works;
AS an NHS hospital doctor, I have had a front-row seat as the drama of the coronavirus pandemic has unfolded. It has been a year and a half of confusion, frustration and anger for me as I’ve watched our profession drawn into complicity with what I anticipate will be regarded as one of the most egregious public health disasters in history.
I have watched as ‘the science’ has been presented on the national stage flanked by Union Jack flags as an unassailable truth. For something so apparently inviolable, it seems to shift and change disconcertingly from week to week, and for those of us looking beneath the pomp to the plain data, we see the rather unexciting (and unchanging) truth: the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, as it turns out, has a much lower infection fatality rate than early predictions. It is less deadly than the seasonal flu in children. The Office for National Statistics has reported the mean age of a Covid-attributed death in the UK to be 80.3 years, slightly older than deaths from other causes (78.2 years over the comparable time period).
What has been most upsetting for me has been the unquestioning compliance from the medical community as increasingly draconian, non-evidence-based and destructive virus control measures have been implemented. Some of the overt corruption, financial conflict of interests and politicisation has been laid bare in editorials in prominent medical journals such as the BMJ. But the vast majority of doctors have had no interest in asking questions or looking further.
My concern over our professional passivity turned to alarm as our compliance required us to support the roll-out of an experimental vaccine to a trusting population.
Contrary to the basic tenets of evidence-based medicine, pronouncing an experimental medical intervention ‘safe and effective’ now does not seem to require any peer-reviewed evidence of safety or clinically meaningful efficacy. The vaccines have not been shown in clinical trials to reduce transmission, hospitalisation or death. The phase 3 trials are not over and the safety data is not complete; the earliest trials will run into 2023.
The consent form for the Covid-19 vaccine does not disclose its status as an unlicensed experimental product. The risks remain largely unknown, although it is becoming clear that the vaccine has resulted in death or injury in a rising number of healthy people. A growing number of vaccine-induced syndromes are being recognised, including immune thrombotic thrombocytopaenia, myocarditis and menstrual irregularities, among many others being published in the literature. At the time of writing, there have been more than 380,000 reports, 1.2million injuries and 1,700 fatalities submitted under the MHRA Yellow Card scheme.
The Prime Minister himself has communicated the latest evidence, that two doses of the vaccine do not stop one contracting the virus, nor do they stop person-to-person transmission, they merely reduce the severity of symptoms. Despite this, it is clear the public are being subjected to a relentless media campaign of shame and coercion, that they must take this experimental product ‘for the greater good’ lest they be viewed as selfish cowards. A vaccine passport is now likely to be rolled out under ‘Plan B’, which proposes to return unlawfully usurped fundamental human rights and freedoms to only the vaccinated. Workers in the care home sector have had their livelihoods tethered to their compliance with the vaccine mandates, and a recent announcement confirms that this will soon include NHS employees. Not only is there no scientific basis for these mandates, these coercive actions breach the Nuremberg Code, as does the unprecedented lack of animal safety data for a novel medical product. A betrayal of the Nuremberg Code constitutes a crime against humanity.
It does not end there. The campaign marches on, and now includes the vaccination of children against a disease that has a statistically negligible chance of harming them. In the world of evidence-based medicine we doctors must weigh risks and benefits, we must ensure the risk of harm is far exceeded by the potential for protection or cure. In this case, with no real risk to healthy children from the infection, any harm is utterly unjustifiable. And the risk of harm is very real and measurable. Vaccine-related myocarditis is now a recognised injury, the risk inversely proportionate to age. Although rare, myocarditis can be fatal, and fatality is more common in the younger population. For reasons that have nothing to do with health, and despite the JCVI advisory board concluding that the health benefits do not outweigh the risks to children, the government is advising that we administer a medicine that carries a risk of serious injury to children who are healthy and who have no significant risk from the disease it purports to protect them against.
Despite all this, and despite our training to look at scientific literature and data with a critical eye, the silence from the medical community in the UK has been deafening. Yet we are the ones who should be shouting all of this from the rooftops. This is a duty of care and an oath we have forgotten.
It is typically those of us most conditioned by the expectations of society, utterly obedient and deferent to authority, who gain entry to medicine. One can see the path: we were good, compliant children and then good, compliant students. Now we are good, compliant doctors. I’m beginning to understand that goodness is measured in a different way, and obedience is not a virtue.
Obedience is learned through fear, threat and intimidation; it is in fact trauma programming and achieved through small control gestures when we were young and helpless. Now we are adults but still operating under these childhood programmes of beliefs and fears. We still feel helpless and beholden to a higher authority. We still submit to an authoritative decree even when it overrides our inherent moral compass.
The horrors of the classic Milgram experiment demonstrated that we live in a deeply traumatised culture, and the same conditioning, in my view, has shaped the medical community and its silence.
Even on the occasion when my counter-narrative evidence cannot be denied by a colleague, the usual response is: ‘It’s coming from the government; our hands are tied.’ But the truth is that most of the time doctors don’t want to see the evidence; their subconscious has prevented them seeing that the parent-like authorities of government, Sage and the MHRA, upon which we project a childlike trust, might be misguided, corrupted or dishonest.
And so we comment to each other on all the changes we are witnessing months into the vaccine roll-out: the unseasonal surge in hospital admissions, the post-jab autoimmune conditions and coagulation disorders, the numbers of ‘double-jabbed’ patients admitted with severe Covid infection, the numbers of lives ruined by lockdown and other Covid control policies. I challenge any doctor to deny that all of this simply feels wrong. To avoid this uncomfortable, authentic, human feeling — important information that should be acted upon — we will reach for something rote. ‘Anecdote is not evidence’ and ‘association is not causation’ will be the justification for carrying on, no questions asked, even though most of the damaging control measures implemented from on high were not based on any evidence at all. Meanwhile, an already struggling NHS has been damaged beyond repair by many of these policies. We are overwhelmed by the demand that we cannot meet, and the complexity of the crisis feels far beyond just one hospital Trust. The locus of responsibility to investigate remains above us and we wait for someone with more authority to come round and make sense of it.
And as we remain silent, the destruction continues.
Most of us went into medicine for the right reasons: to help the vulnerable, to reduce suffering. I know my colleagues are kind and well-intentioned and that their faith in our unelected public health policymakers is the result of a lifetime of conditioning. For those of us who have looked at the data and see the truth, I understand the fear: the risk of non-conformity is immense; careers, reputations and livelihoods are at stake. I recognise an even larger threat: a threat to our chosen profession, our life purpose, the possibility that we have been following a false god in our honest intentions to help the ill. We are at a difficult crossroads, but the choice for me is clear.
Although I am not on the front line in the ‘fight’ against coronavirus, and have had nothing to do with the vaccine campaign, I feel complicit in this public deception. I can no longer hide within a system that has proved itself to be weak-willed and unwilling to stand against the irrevocable erosion of inalienable human rights and freedoms in the name of public health safety. It is past the time for us to grow up, stand up and speak out. |
Now that's what I'm talking about..honest heartfelt and correct. | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 18:50 - Nov 27 with 1083 views | DorsetIan |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:48 - Nov 27 by Jellybaby |
Ian, I know this has been a recurring theme for you, maybe this article from Dr Lucie Wilk, which tallies up exactly with my doctor friend will be of some help in getting your head round how this all works;
AS an NHS hospital doctor, I have had a front-row seat as the drama of the coronavirus pandemic has unfolded. It has been a year and a half of confusion, frustration and anger for me as I’ve watched our profession drawn into complicity with what I anticipate will be regarded as one of the most egregious public health disasters in history.
I have watched as ‘the science’ has been presented on the national stage flanked by Union Jack flags as an unassailable truth. For something so apparently inviolable, it seems to shift and change disconcertingly from week to week, and for those of us looking beneath the pomp to the plain data, we see the rather unexciting (and unchanging) truth: the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, as it turns out, has a much lower infection fatality rate than early predictions. It is less deadly than the seasonal flu in children. The Office for National Statistics has reported the mean age of a Covid-attributed death in the UK to be 80.3 years, slightly older than deaths from other causes (78.2 years over the comparable time period).
What has been most upsetting for me has been the unquestioning compliance from the medical community as increasingly draconian, non-evidence-based and destructive virus control measures have been implemented. Some of the overt corruption, financial conflict of interests and politicisation has been laid bare in editorials in prominent medical journals such as the BMJ. But the vast majority of doctors have had no interest in asking questions or looking further.
My concern over our professional passivity turned to alarm as our compliance required us to support the roll-out of an experimental vaccine to a trusting population.
Contrary to the basic tenets of evidence-based medicine, pronouncing an experimental medical intervention ‘safe and effective’ now does not seem to require any peer-reviewed evidence of safety or clinically meaningful efficacy. The vaccines have not been shown in clinical trials to reduce transmission, hospitalisation or death. The phase 3 trials are not over and the safety data is not complete; the earliest trials will run into 2023.
The consent form for the Covid-19 vaccine does not disclose its status as an unlicensed experimental product. The risks remain largely unknown, although it is becoming clear that the vaccine has resulted in death or injury in a rising number of healthy people. A growing number of vaccine-induced syndromes are being recognised, including immune thrombotic thrombocytopaenia, myocarditis and menstrual irregularities, among many others being published in the literature. At the time of writing, there have been more than 380,000 reports, 1.2million injuries and 1,700 fatalities submitted under the MHRA Yellow Card scheme.
The Prime Minister himself has communicated the latest evidence, that two doses of the vaccine do not stop one contracting the virus, nor do they stop person-to-person transmission, they merely reduce the severity of symptoms. Despite this, it is clear the public are being subjected to a relentless media campaign of shame and coercion, that they must take this experimental product ‘for the greater good’ lest they be viewed as selfish cowards. A vaccine passport is now likely to be rolled out under ‘Plan B’, which proposes to return unlawfully usurped fundamental human rights and freedoms to only the vaccinated. Workers in the care home sector have had their livelihoods tethered to their compliance with the vaccine mandates, and a recent announcement confirms that this will soon include NHS employees. Not only is there no scientific basis for these mandates, these coercive actions breach the Nuremberg Code, as does the unprecedented lack of animal safety data for a novel medical product. A betrayal of the Nuremberg Code constitutes a crime against humanity.
It does not end there. The campaign marches on, and now includes the vaccination of children against a disease that has a statistically negligible chance of harming them. In the world of evidence-based medicine we doctors must weigh risks and benefits, we must ensure the risk of harm is far exceeded by the potential for protection or cure. In this case, with no real risk to healthy children from the infection, any harm is utterly unjustifiable. And the risk of harm is very real and measurable. Vaccine-related myocarditis is now a recognised injury, the risk inversely proportionate to age. Although rare, myocarditis can be fatal, and fatality is more common in the younger population. For reasons that have nothing to do with health, and despite the JCVI advisory board concluding that the health benefits do not outweigh the risks to children, the government is advising that we administer a medicine that carries a risk of serious injury to children who are healthy and who have no significant risk from the disease it purports to protect them against.
Despite all this, and despite our training to look at scientific literature and data with a critical eye, the silence from the medical community in the UK has been deafening. Yet we are the ones who should be shouting all of this from the rooftops. This is a duty of care and an oath we have forgotten.
It is typically those of us most conditioned by the expectations of society, utterly obedient and deferent to authority, who gain entry to medicine. One can see the path: we were good, compliant children and then good, compliant students. Now we are good, compliant doctors. I’m beginning to understand that goodness is measured in a different way, and obedience is not a virtue.
Obedience is learned through fear, threat and intimidation; it is in fact trauma programming and achieved through small control gestures when we were young and helpless. Now we are adults but still operating under these childhood programmes of beliefs and fears. We still feel helpless and beholden to a higher authority. We still submit to an authoritative decree even when it overrides our inherent moral compass.
The horrors of the classic Milgram experiment demonstrated that we live in a deeply traumatised culture, and the same conditioning, in my view, has shaped the medical community and its silence.
Even on the occasion when my counter-narrative evidence cannot be denied by a colleague, the usual response is: ‘It’s coming from the government; our hands are tied.’ But the truth is that most of the time doctors don’t want to see the evidence; their subconscious has prevented them seeing that the parent-like authorities of government, Sage and the MHRA, upon which we project a childlike trust, might be misguided, corrupted or dishonest.
And so we comment to each other on all the changes we are witnessing months into the vaccine roll-out: the unseasonal surge in hospital admissions, the post-jab autoimmune conditions and coagulation disorders, the numbers of ‘double-jabbed’ patients admitted with severe Covid infection, the numbers of lives ruined by lockdown and other Covid control policies. I challenge any doctor to deny that all of this simply feels wrong. To avoid this uncomfortable, authentic, human feeling — important information that should be acted upon — we will reach for something rote. ‘Anecdote is not evidence’ and ‘association is not causation’ will be the justification for carrying on, no questions asked, even though most of the damaging control measures implemented from on high were not based on any evidence at all. Meanwhile, an already struggling NHS has been damaged beyond repair by many of these policies. We are overwhelmed by the demand that we cannot meet, and the complexity of the crisis feels far beyond just one hospital Trust. The locus of responsibility to investigate remains above us and we wait for someone with more authority to come round and make sense of it.
And as we remain silent, the destruction continues.
Most of us went into medicine for the right reasons: to help the vulnerable, to reduce suffering. I know my colleagues are kind and well-intentioned and that their faith in our unelected public health policymakers is the result of a lifetime of conditioning. For those of us who have looked at the data and see the truth, I understand the fear: the risk of non-conformity is immense; careers, reputations and livelihoods are at stake. I recognise an even larger threat: a threat to our chosen profession, our life purpose, the possibility that we have been following a false god in our honest intentions to help the ill. We are at a difficult crossroads, but the choice for me is clear.
Although I am not on the front line in the ‘fight’ against coronavirus, and have had nothing to do with the vaccine campaign, I feel complicit in this public deception. I can no longer hide within a system that has proved itself to be weak-willed and unwilling to stand against the irrevocable erosion of inalienable human rights and freedoms in the name of public health safety. It is past the time for us to grow up, stand up and speak out. |
Dr Lucie Wilk’s is one voice, and surprise surprise she appears to be another libertarian ‘freedom lover’ like you two crackpots...
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/author/luciewilk/
So, own goal, I’m afraid Jelly.
(But even she acknowledges that her colleagues are ‘kind and well-intentioned’, something which 68 spent this morning denying but then crashed and burned when asked to clarify what their actual intentions were). | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 18:52 - Nov 27 with 1077 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 18:50 - Nov 27 by DorsetIan |
Dr Lucie Wilk’s is one voice, and surprise surprise she appears to be another libertarian ‘freedom lover’ like you two crackpots...
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/author/luciewilk/
So, own goal, I’m afraid Jelly.
(But even she acknowledges that her colleagues are ‘kind and well-intentioned’, something which 68 spent this morning denying but then crashed and burned when asked to clarify what their actual intentions were). |
"Crashed and burned"
You really are a complete and utter bellend. | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 00:06 - Nov 28 with 1034 views | Jellybaby |
| Third Covid Wave on 18:50 - Nov 27 by DorsetIan |
Dr Lucie Wilk’s is one voice, and surprise surprise she appears to be another libertarian ‘freedom lover’ like you two crackpots...
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/author/luciewilk/
So, own goal, I’m afraid Jelly.
(But even she acknowledges that her colleagues are ‘kind and well-intentioned’, something which 68 spent this morning denying but then crashed and burned when asked to clarify what their actual intentions were). |
You know you are living in strange days when freedom lovers are described as "crackpots"
Govern me harder Daddy! | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
| |
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| Third Covid Wave on 10:36 - Nov 28 with 991 views | Poirot |
All that 'paranoia' on here coming from the conspiracy types ! |  | | |
| Third Covid Wave on 15:46 - Nov 28 with 943 views | dwayne_dibley |
no vax no NHS access
simples |  |
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| Third Covid Wave on 17:48 - Nov 28 with 920 views | Jellybaby |
| Third Covid Wave on 15:46 - Nov 28 by dwayne_dibley |
no vax no NHS access
simples |
Do you want to carry on with that Dwayne?
Too fat - no NHS access?
Too much alcohol - no NHS access?
Too much smoking - no NHS access?
Too many dangerous sports - no NHS access?
Carelessly fell over - no NHS access?
Simples, lets do a worthiness test before NHS access and see who passes that. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
| |
| Third Covid Wave on 18:05 - Nov 28 with 904 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 17:48 - Nov 28 by Jellybaby |
Do you want to carry on with that Dwayne?
Too fat - no NHS access?
Too much alcohol - no NHS access?
Too much smoking - no NHS access?
Too many dangerous sports - no NHS access?
Carelessly fell over - no NHS access?
Simples, lets do a worthiness test before NHS access and see who passes that. |
Mute point Jelly...there is no primary care in the great NHS anymore..its closed due to the mega ultra killer bug....didn't you know...
We've been so busy neglecting primary care and making wicked Tik Tok vids.....you must of seen them .they're amazing ðŸ‘
But also we neglected our principles at the same time...not because we wanted too..we were told to....apologies for the tens/hundreds of thousands in our main 5 mortality groups ...but the public have left us incapable of explaining what's going on in reality | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 18:16 - Nov 28 with 899 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 14:12 - Nov 27 by DorsetIan |
You stated it very explicitly. I asked you in terms whether doctors and scientists were trying to improve health outcomes and you stated a very clear ‘no’. (Hence my subsequent question as to what they were trying to do, which you didn’t answer).
Here’s another one for you: what medical or scientific qualifications do you have? |
Oh Ian it's been stated and reiterated countless times the reality is you just can't accept or realise it...I've openly offered other posters to agree with you..they haven't .so that confirms without prejudice your inept ability to understand my clear viewpoint. | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 19:30 - Nov 28 with 886 views | saint68 |
Well Hola Good evening and welcome to the Dorset Ian Is a complete and utter mug and massive hypocrite show.
Ian wants everyone to have the experimental vaccine ..oh..but apart from his kids..as that thought feels him with a gutfelt dread and a primary conscious fear that it could really do more harm than good..but the unvaccinated are scum and a danger to the community ( the vaccine that still makes transmission not only possible but reality)
Ian..thinks that concentrating on the virus is paramount..when the 5 main mortality groups in the UK suffer immeasurably as a direct consequence.
Ian the hypocrite wants selfish idiots to take a vaccine that has lead to 50% rise in myocarditis..but definitely NOT for his children.
Ian doesn't actually realise that people died last year at home in the greatest number for over 2 decades as they were so scared to access medical care at hospital in the distinct knowledge they wouldn't get that last embrace touch kiss word as they sadly slipped away..
Ian has great difficulty in acknowledging that the NHS last year and this year had great difficulty coping despite 85% of staff being stood down for routine care and diagnosis...with only 15% of capacity being used throughout lockdowns.
Dont be a hypocritical little snide mug like Ian...use your brain and heart and realise this little Cretin has been absolutely brainwashed and coerced into becoming an absolute idiot that wouldn’t subject his kids to a vaccine and had openly commented that catching covid and recovering without vaccines has actually far greater immunity..yes folks Natural immunity..who knew hey.
Don't be like Ian. [Post edited 28 Nov 2021 19:36]
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| Third Covid Wave on 00:44 - Nov 29 with 839 views | DorsetIan |
| Third Covid Wave on 19:30 - Nov 28 by saint68 |
Well Hola Good evening and welcome to the Dorset Ian Is a complete and utter mug and massive hypocrite show.
Ian wants everyone to have the experimental vaccine ..oh..but apart from his kids..as that thought feels him with a gutfelt dread and a primary conscious fear that it could really do more harm than good..but the unvaccinated are scum and a danger to the community ( the vaccine that still makes transmission not only possible but reality)
Ian..thinks that concentrating on the virus is paramount..when the 5 main mortality groups in the UK suffer immeasurably as a direct consequence.
Ian the hypocrite wants selfish idiots to take a vaccine that has lead to 50% rise in myocarditis..but definitely NOT for his children.
Ian doesn't actually realise that people died last year at home in the greatest number for over 2 decades as they were so scared to access medical care at hospital in the distinct knowledge they wouldn't get that last embrace touch kiss word as they sadly slipped away..
Ian has great difficulty in acknowledging that the NHS last year and this year had great difficulty coping despite 85% of staff being stood down for routine care and diagnosis...with only 15% of capacity being used throughout lockdowns.
Dont be a hypocritical little snide mug like Ian...use your brain and heart and realise this little Cretin has been absolutely brainwashed and coerced into becoming an absolute idiot that wouldn’t subject his kids to a vaccine and had openly commented that catching covid and recovering without vaccines has actually far greater immunity..yes folks Natural immunity..who knew hey.
Don't be like Ian. [Post edited 28 Nov 2021 19:36]
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You’re losing it 68.
You don’t believe vaccines work (when clearly they do) and you can’t even acknowledge that most doctors and scientists are trying their best to improve health outcomes.
Your rants about misplaced health priorities might be worth listening too if (a) you had any expertise in this area (b) you understood what an objective approach was and (c) you weren’t motivated first and foremost by a crackpot libertarian agenda, that asserts that your every freedom is under attack from mysterious forces.
Your maths is shit, and the best you can now do is to try to misrepresent my views, which are no more than what every sane person believes:
Covid is real
Doctors and scientists are honest
Vaccines work | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 06:33 - Nov 29 with 826 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 00:44 - Nov 29 by DorsetIan |
You’re losing it 68.
You don’t believe vaccines work (when clearly they do) and you can’t even acknowledge that most doctors and scientists are trying their best to improve health outcomes.
Your rants about misplaced health priorities might be worth listening too if (a) you had any expertise in this area (b) you understood what an objective approach was and (c) you weren’t motivated first and foremost by a crackpot libertarian agenda, that asserts that your every freedom is under attack from mysterious forces.
Your maths is shit, and the best you can now do is to try to misrepresent my views, which are no more than what every sane person believes:
Covid is real
Doctors and scientists are honest
Vaccines work |
Yet more hypocrisy..you dismiss Dr Lucie Wilk as a crackpot..she is in a far better position than you to judge than a little covid cheerleader from Dorset
You've tried countless times to misrepresent my comments..yet more hypocrisy from Ian the weasel.
You want medical apartheid on vaccination status, yet you'd dread having to get your kids jabbed with this experimental vaccine...yet more disgusting hypocrisy from the vaccine cheerleader.
You've clearly stated that you'd think about waiting for a booster, as natural immunity after having the very light illness you had when ill from covid was actually more potent than the vaccine..yet more hypocrisy Ian.
You really need to remember what you've previously posted..it might just stop you looking so bloody hypocritical
You can't even comprehend that deaths from non covid mortalities will rise exponentially in the next few years due to the public being locked out of accessible early diagnosis .
It's like you've been brainwashed/hypnotised and can't see what's happening in front of your eyes as you're transfixed on covid. | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 16:25 - Nov 30 with 737 views | saint901 |
I suspect that Singapore will not be the last to charge those who fail to take care of themselves and others, for the help they need if they contract this disease.
Would it happen here?
It would be a bold political move and certainly a polarising one.
The argument that if free health care is denied those who chose to remain unvaccinated means that those who chose to smoke, become obese, abuse their own bodies should also be denied is false.
Smoking like many other addictions has a physical element -a physical need often for the drug of choice. Many of those obese also suffer because of metabolic issues.
Choosing to be vaccinated for your own good or the good of the others is very different. It's a rational (sometimes irrational) choice that an adult can make that is absent any physical or mental compulsion.
To be clear I'm not saying that the unvaccinated should be excluded from care but given what we know about this disease (5m global deaths and climbing) it would not surprise me to see this matter being discussed in political circles. | | | |
| Third Covid Wave on 17:54 - Dec 1 with 687 views | Poirot |
Seems a good place to highlight how individuals who spread misleading covid information cause situations like this. An elderly neighbour hasnt seen his grandchildren or daughter for a number of months now because the son in law wont alllow any of them to be vaccinated because of things hes heard and read on facebook. | | | |
| Third Covid Wave on 18:16 - Dec 1 with 669 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Third Covid Wave on 15:46 - Nov 28 by dwayne_dibley |
no vax no NHS access
simples |
Yes, lets get some badges made up; just like days of old.
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| Third Covid Wave on 19:37 - Dec 2 with 623 views | Berber |
| Third Covid Wave on 11:31 - Nov 27 by Berber |
So if you don't believe that the NHS (or any other national healthcare system) is acting in good faith, can we take it that you have never, and will never seek medical help from a nurse, GP or hospital for you or your family? |
The question was whether you thought medics were acting in good faith. You made the statement about dereliction of duty, then answered, 'so NO'. If you want to qualify it that is fine, but you cannot deny what you wrote.
Paying for private health are is fine, but I guess that yes, you do trust medical professionals to act in good faith.
Not sure what the rest of your answer is about. |  | | |
| Third Covid Wave on 19:52 - Dec 2 with 617 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 19:37 - Dec 2 by Berber |
The question was whether you thought medics were acting in good faith. You made the statement about dereliction of duty, then answered, 'so NO'. If you want to qualify it that is fine, but you cannot deny what you wrote.
Paying for private health are is fine, but I guess that yes, you do trust medical professionals to act in good faith.
Not sure what the rest of your answer is about. |
Great to see you produced the factually correct upto date statistics you used in that post from 12 + days ago...oh actually you didn't did you..thats fine. ..we are in full fact mode this week to quell the nutcase conspiracists...its going really well...I've really had enough of false information false claims and worthless anecdotal comments...
Time to stamp out misinformation for good, it's the only way to help those that are claiming all kinds of absurd things, wouldn't you agree? | |
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| Third Covid Wave on 20:18 - Dec 2 with 609 views | Bazza |
| Third Covid Wave on 18:05 - Nov 28 by saint68 |
Mute point Jelly...there is no primary care in the great NHS anymore..its closed due to the mega ultra killer bug....didn't you know...
We've been so busy neglecting primary care and making wicked Tik Tok vids.....you must of seen them .they're amazing ðŸ‘
But also we neglected our principles at the same time...not because we wanted too..we were told to....apologies for the tens/hundreds of thousands in our main 5 mortality groups ...but the public have left us incapable of explaining what's going on in reality |
Moot point, shame it’s not mute | | | |
| Third Covid Wave on 20:25 - Dec 2 with 608 views | saint68 |
| Third Covid Wave on 20:18 - Dec 2 by Bazza |
Moot point, shame it’s not mute |
Nods in agreement 🤠| |
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| Third Covid Wave on 20:43 - Dec 2 with 598 views | Poirot |
"Why have we doctors been silent?"
Plenty of comment from Drs, well sane ones. | | | |
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