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"Unfortunately, new terms proposed by Rochdale AFC render the event commercially unviable, and despite significant efforts to overcome this, Rochdale Hornets are now unable to host the event. The match will now be staged at the AJ Bell, Salford, on Friday 7 October."
Despite significant efforts to overcome this?
RMBC "lads, get a new deal dome and properly"
THE AFC "OK Steve"
Hornets "if we have to"
The AFC "here's a properly costed proposal with a contract that protects you in the eyes of the law of the land"
The AFC " hello, any thoughts on this"
Hornets "we're suing you with our watertight 2021 agreement. See you in court" . . . . . .Hornets "erm, can't find it." . . . . . . . .Hornets "we're going to have it played at Salford and we will rubbish the AFC and it's lack of community spirit and commercialism by targeting stadium sponsors too."
Statement from the Board on 20:02 - Jul 27 by judd
This from the Hornets statement:
"Unfortunately, new terms proposed by Rochdale AFC render the event commercially unviable, and despite significant efforts to overcome this, Rochdale Hornets are now unable to host the event. The match will now be staged at the AJ Bell, Salford, on Friday 7 October."
Despite significant efforts to overcome this?
RMBC "lads, get a new deal dome and properly"
THE AFC "OK Steve"
Hornets "if we have to"
The AFC "here's a properly costed proposal with a contract that protects you in the eyes of the law of the land"
The AFC " hello, any thoughts on this"
Hornets "we're suing you with our watertight 2021 agreement. See you in court" . . . . . .Hornets "erm, can't find it." . . . . . . . .Hornets "we're going to have it played at Salford and we will rubbish the AFC and it's lack of community spirit and commercialism by targeting stadium sponsors too."
The AFC "have you seen our HIMARS?
BOOM!"
They are a bunch of duplicitous Bastards...We should fkin turn up en masse to their fans forum to vent some anger at the top table....Am sure they could find a venue bigger than the phone box they would otherwise need..
Statement from the Board on 20:02 - Jul 27 by judd
This from the Hornets statement:
"Unfortunately, new terms proposed by Rochdale AFC render the event commercially unviable, and despite significant efforts to overcome this, Rochdale Hornets are now unable to host the event. The match will now be staged at the AJ Bell, Salford, on Friday 7 October."
Despite significant efforts to overcome this?
RMBC "lads, get a new deal dome and properly"
THE AFC "OK Steve"
Hornets "if we have to"
The AFC "here's a properly costed proposal with a contract that protects you in the eyes of the law of the land"
The AFC " hello, any thoughts on this"
Hornets "we're suing you with our watertight 2021 agreement. See you in court" . . . . . .Hornets "erm, can't find it." . . . . . . . .Hornets "we're going to have it played at Salford and we will rubbish the AFC and it's lack of community spirit and commercialism by targeting stadium sponsors too."
The AFC "have you seen our HIMARS?
BOOM!"
I have some sympathy judd.
if you read the statement, Rochdale Hornets announced on 18 April 2021.
We know at that time that Roger was running around courting investment and met with Andrew Curran, Matt Southall and Alexander Jarvis at the club on 29 April 2021.
On 30 April 2021 he was busy telling the Dale Trust about the "law of the land"
In May he was cosying up to Martin Halsall.
In June he was gone.
What sort of CEO can't get an agreed deal documented?
The CEO's were Roger and Steve Kerr.
Calamitous arrogance by the sounds of it to not have any documented agreement but to think you can play an international fixture.
I suppose the game at the AJ Bell is written down on the back of 20 Lambert and Butler?
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
What happened the last time there was a RL international played at the COA? Did the previous board just busk their way through it or was a new contract drawn up for that one game? And if there was already a contract why wasnt that used as the basis of a new one for this game? How hard can it be to just change the details for another game? Bottom was clearly asleep at the wheel or distracted by his treachery and the rest were just clueless... not fit to run a whelk stall, its a miracle we didnt go bust years ago.
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Statement from the Board on 21:09 - Jul 27 with 2297 views
The game between Ireland and Fiji in 2013 was a group game in the World Cup. Presumably the tournament organisers would have signed an agreement with the Stadium Company with neither Dale or Hornets being actively involved.
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Statement from the Board on 21:17 - Jul 27 with 2250 views
Statement from the Board on 21:09 - Jul 27 by EllDale
The game between Ireland and Fiji in 2013 was a group game in the World Cup. Presumably the tournament organisers would have signed an agreement with the Stadium Company with neither Dale or Hornets being actively involved.
So Bottom would have had access to a copy of that contract if only for reference..
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Statement from the Board on 21:18 - Jul 27 with 2248 views
Statement from the Board on 21:09 - Jul 27 by EllDale
The game between Ireland and Fiji in 2013 was a group game in the World Cup. Presumably the tournament organisers would have signed an agreement with the Stadium Company with neither Dale or Hornets being actively involved.
From the earlier statement: In March 1991, Denehurst Park (Rochdale) Limited was set up as a stadium management company to manage the significant annual costs of operating the ground saw RAFC jointly and collectively and Rochdale Hornets both own 45.45% of the shares in the stadium management company with Rochdale Council having a 9.10% holding.
As the World Cup was in 2013 it would have been a joint bid.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
From the earlier statement: In March 1991, Denehurst Park (Rochdale) Limited was set up as a stadium management company to manage the significant annual costs of operating the ground saw RAFC jointly and collectively and Rochdale Hornets both own 45.45% of the shares in the stadium management company with Rochdale Council having a 9.10% holding.
As the World Cup was in 2013 it would have been a joint bid.
RH were given permission to stage the event with the support of the former RAFC board and executives. Rochdale Hornets set about organising an International fixture working collaboratively with RAFC’s Commercial Director who was assigned to the event management group 1/1
2/2 A commercial director assigned by the RAFC board. Several meetings took place and commitments were made with the full knowledge and support of RAFC. There was no requirement from the landlord to enter into separate commercial terms for this event in 2021.
Mazey now blaming former Commercial Director Frances Fielding.
He says very clearly: "RH were given permission to stage the event with the support of the former RAFC board and executives. Rochdale Hornets set about organising an International fixture working collaboratively with RAFC’s Commercial Director who was assigned to the event management group.
No mention of the former CEO.
Still doesn't explain: 1. why there was no written agreement could be produced by Rochdale Hornets 2. why Rochdale Hornets launched a legal action in April 2022 and then withdrew it to play the game at Salford's ground.
He's still blaming the football club!
[Post edited 27 Jul 2022 21:30]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
From the earlier statement: In March 1991, Denehurst Park (Rochdale) Limited was set up as a stadium management company to manage the significant annual costs of operating the ground saw RAFC jointly and collectively and Rochdale Hornets both own 45.45% of the shares in the stadium management company with Rochdale Council having a 9.10% holding.
As the World Cup was in 2013 it would have been a joint bid.
So I guess the question is " did the stadium company have its own management team or did Hornets expect the Dale to do everything? I bet they didnt contribute to our costs...
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Statement from the Board on 21:39 - Jul 27 with 2171 views
Statement from the Board on 21:27 - Jul 27 by 49thseason
So I guess the question is " did the stadium company have its own management team or did Hornets expect the Dale to do everything? I bet they didnt contribute to our costs...
As I understand it - and there are other better placed than me - it was supposed to have its own management team but the onus of work and responsibility fell on the football club.
If you look at the accounts before the club bought the ground back:
May 2015: Loss in year: £57,821 : Accumulated losses: £409,355 May 2014: Loss in year: £44,862: Accumulated losses: £351,534 May 2013: Loss in year: £44,862: Accumulated losses: £306,672 May 2012: Loss in year: £78,325: Accumulated losses: £234,212 May 2011: Loss in year: £91,458: Accumulated losses: £155,887 May 2010: Profit in year: £26,031: Accumulated losses: £64,429 May 2009: Loss in year: £46,525: Accumulated losses: £90,460
Grim reading.
The worst piece of all - the losses were a loan from the Council that the football club had to take on when we bought it and the entity was making average losses of over £40k a year set up pretty much as now.
Hornet rent - £11,000. Terrible deal for the football club.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Statement from the Board on 21:49 - Jul 27 by RAFCBLUE
As I understand it - and there are other better placed than me - it was supposed to have its own management team but the onus of work and responsibility fell on the football club.
If you look at the accounts before the club bought the ground back:
May 2015: Loss in year: £57,821 : Accumulated losses: £409,355 May 2014: Loss in year: £44,862: Accumulated losses: £351,534 May 2013: Loss in year: £44,862: Accumulated losses: £306,672 May 2012: Loss in year: £78,325: Accumulated losses: £234,212 May 2011: Loss in year: £91,458: Accumulated losses: £155,887 May 2010: Profit in year: £26,031: Accumulated losses: £64,429 May 2009: Loss in year: £46,525: Accumulated losses: £90,460
Grim reading.
The worst piece of all - the losses were a loan from the Council that the football club had to take on when we bought it and the entity was making average losses of over £40k a year set up pretty much as now.
Hornet rent - £11,000. Terrible deal for the football club.
That last point: it may well be, but that was agreed by the football club and presumably, despite what we all may think now, was not seen as “terrible” by the club at the time.
Forgetting all personalities and how we all individually have differing opinions, the Dale statement rightly points towards the 34 years the two clubs have co-existed at Spotland. It might not always have been great, but a positive route forward has to be found for the good of both clubs, who are important to people within the town. Everyone involved has a responsibility to try and achieve that.
Statement from the Board on 21:09 - Jul 27 by EllDale
The game between Ireland and Fiji in 2013 was a group game in the World Cup. Presumably the tournament organisers would have signed an agreement with the Stadium Company with neither Dale or Hornets being actively involved.
And of particular annoyance is how the attendance at that game was reported in many media outlets, including our own local press, as the crowd record at Spotland.
They got a piece of my mind, I can tell you. Think I've still got the letters page somewhere.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2022 22:02]
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
2
Statement from the Board on 22:04 - Jul 27 with 2059 views
Statement from the Board on 21:56 - Jul 27 by 442Dale
That last point: it may well be, but that was agreed by the football club and presumably, despite what we all may think now, was not seen as “terrible” by the club at the time.
Forgetting all personalities and how we all individually have differing opinions, the Dale statement rightly points towards the 34 years the two clubs have co-existed at Spotland. It might not always have been great, but a positive route forward has to be found for the good of both clubs, who are important to people within the town. Everyone involved has a responsibility to try and achieve that.
Agreed - and in 2016 it was documented and written down and signed by both Boards so as you say must be respected.
it is terrible in economic terms - £200 a week to hire Spotland in 2016 is less than £30 a day.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Statement from the Board on 22:04 - Jul 27 by RAFCBLUE
Agreed - and in 2016 it was documented and written down and signed by both Boards so as you say must be respected.
it is terrible in economic terms - £200 a week to hire Spotland in 2016 is less than £30 a day.
Yeah but that’s us as supporters of Dale looking at it, if the RFL were involved at the time of the deal there may have been reasons for agreeing that amount. There wasn’t any indication at the time or since that there have been any issues.
It needs reiterating, a clear, positive path forward needs finding for both clubs.
Statement from the Board on 22:01 - Jul 27 by TVOS1907
And of particular annoyance is how the attendance at that game was reported in many media outlets, including our own local press, as the crowd record at Spotland.
They got a piece of my mind, I can tell you. Think I've still got the letters page somewhere.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2022 22:02]
Wasnt the record crowd about 21,000 or so against Notts County in the 40 s. The biggest rugby crowd I can recall was 8000+ against Oldham in 1989
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Statement from the Board on 22:46 - Jul 27 with 1888 views
Statement from the Board on 22:01 - Jul 27 by TVOS1907
And of particular annoyance is how the attendance at that game was reported in many media outlets, including our own local press, as the crowd record at Spotland.
They got a piece of my mind, I can tell you. Think I've still got the letters page somewhere.
Statement from the Board on 16:52 - Jul 27 by 49thseason
As I said a few pages ago on the other thread " read what the contract actually says, like it, lump it or check the exit clause". Hornets have the ground and a staffed bar, with no safety responsibility for less than a Grand per month. Probably a good idea to either now shut up or find somewhere else. Personally given the £400k pa cost of keeping the pitch in good nick I would increase the rent 10 fold at the earliest opportunity.....it's more like having a Cuckoo in the nest than a Hornet.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2022 16:53]
Now finding out just how little we get from them I hope they just piss off, and find a new home. I am sure there will be loads wanting their massive £11000 a year contribution.
Statement from the Board on 22:04 - Jul 27 by RAFCBLUE
Agreed - and in 2016 it was documented and written down and signed by both Boards so as you say must be respected.
it is terrible in economic terms - £200 a week to hire Spotland in 2016 is less than £30 a day.
To be fair they dont hire out spotland for 365 days
They hire it for league fixtures and up to three friendlies (thats 12 game days this season plus any home play offs) so around 900 quid a game and an unspecified location for administration.
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Statement from the Board on 23:28 - Jul 27 with 1651 views
Statement from the Board on 21:27 - Jul 27 by RAFCBLUE
RH were given permission to stage the event with the support of the former RAFC board and executives. Rochdale Hornets set about organising an International fixture working collaboratively with RAFC’s Commercial Director who was assigned to the event management group 1/1
2/2 A commercial director assigned by the RAFC board. Several meetings took place and commitments were made with the full knowledge and support of RAFC. There was no requirement from the landlord to enter into separate commercial terms for this event in 2021.
Mazey now blaming former Commercial Director Frances Fielding.
He says very clearly: "RH were given permission to stage the event with the support of the former RAFC board and executives. Rochdale Hornets set about organising an International fixture working collaboratively with RAFC’s Commercial Director who was assigned to the event management group.
No mention of the former CEO.
Still doesn't explain: 1. why there was no written agreement could be produced by Rochdale Hornets 2. why Rochdale Hornets launched a legal action in April 2022 and then withdrew it to play the game at Salford's ground.
He's still blaming the football club!
[Post edited 27 Jul 2022 21:30]
Reading Andy Mazey’s Tweets, he has a very valid point about how everything was organized. However, the due diligence in documenting the event is disastrously shoddy.
The head of our admin at the time was at pains to tell anyone who’d listen that the council person responsible for ground safety said he was the most professional chief exec at Rochdale he’d ever dealt with.
Seems to me that that utter bollocks has shafted Hornets when proper professionals have stepped in and said hmmm. Not anti-Hornets or RFL, but as a professional business with new statutory directors, all bases had to be covered.
Is the issue now that Hornets cannot support the cost of staging at Rochdale but can be profitable at the AJ Bell?
Andy Mazey has been good as gold tonight and has promised a statement tomorrow to cover the gaps in the RAFC statement.
Statement from the Board on 23:45 - Jul 27 by Shun
Would RAFC have served to make any profit from this game had it gone ahead?
That would be determined by the agreement . . . . which was never signed!
I think common practice would be for an agreement to specify a fixed fee for 'renting' the facility and then particular clauses to deal with the parking , bar revenue etc.
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Statement from the Board on 01:08 - Jul 28 with 1549 views
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