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So the Chairman and Directors have announced their intentions to look for outside investment and to be honest I don’t really blame them. The only future I can see at present is to constantly service a growing debt and hope beyond hope that we survive on the pitch every season. As a young supporter that must be very disheartening and it’s the young fans who are the most important going forward. I am expecting and really hoping that the net will be cast worldwide in the search for suitable investors and a professional service will be utilised to assist in the search.
Positive reasons to invest need to be highlighted and there is a fantastic story that surrounds our football club all of which could be included in a promotional video which could be presented to any potential investor. Thinking off the top of my head this is how I think it could be done, it’s not easy though when we’ve never won bugger all. Feel free to also add other ideas etc, the more the merrier.
So we have a 115 yrs old historic football league club situated in Greater Manchester and with very close links to the motorway network and a international airport, also within 30 minutes drive or so from Leeds and Liverpool.
We have a club that has survived against all odd despite being surrounded by clubs such as Man City and United. We are one of a few clubs that has never been bankrupt and have always paid our way even through tough times.A large number of supporters have purchased small shares in the club to help with finances
Tell the brilliant stories of our history and the Co-op, paint the picture of how we employed the first black manager in the football league. The story of the Overcoat men and go big on the David Clough legacy and what he did for the club. Include the video footage of Richard Wild when he brilliantly narrated how Cloughy saved us, that will bring a tear to even the toughest of potential investors, show his Statue proudly sitting in the main stand. Tell the story of how the fan base united and came together to fight off a very hostile takeover and how good men stepped forward and flooded the boardroom and opened their wallets in order to keep the club fan owned. Include footage of our recent games at Old Trafford and Wembley , our victory over Leeds and our draws against Spurs and Newcastle. All Premiership Clubs that foreign investors can associate with.
There is enough history and positivity there to put a great promotional video together but it needs to be done in a professional manner and not half arsed, employ a professional company to spread the word. If we are going to do this then let’s go big and let’s give us the best chance of reaching out to as many potential investors as we can. The Americans and Chinese love stories and projects like ours but we have to sell ourselves properly and not just in the UK. If Wrexham and Gillingham can do it then so can we.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2022 9:18]
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 09:24 - Dec 31 with 7348 views
Also how about fans crowd funding to pay for Jesus to fly over from Spain. The award winning programme . All the work the club does within the community.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2022 12:07]
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 09:24 - Dec 31 by James1980
Also how about fans crowd funding to pay for Jesus to fly over from Spain. The award winning programme . All the work the club does within the community.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2022 12:07]
Very good points JamesðŸ‘
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 11:23 - Dec 31 with 7150 views
On paper the story has appeal. The reality is a worry. The Board wanted to sell another £1m of shares to cover operating losses. What happens in year two? The previous Board told us the investment was needed to pay for training facilities etc - when it is now clear that investment is needed to cover running costs. Morton House didn't prove they had the cash for either. I am lost as to what the Board is now seeking. Do they want a true investor that will spend £5m or £10m to rebuild the club ready for the next 50 years, or so they want somebody with a spare million to keep us going and fight relegation?
Anybody know?
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 11:42 - Dec 31 with 7098 views
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 11:23 - Dec 31 by Dalenet
On paper the story has appeal. The reality is a worry. The Board wanted to sell another £1m of shares to cover operating losses. What happens in year two? The previous Board told us the investment was needed to pay for training facilities etc - when it is now clear that investment is needed to cover running costs. Morton House didn't prove they had the cash for either. I am lost as to what the Board is now seeking. Do they want a true investor that will spend £5m or £10m to rebuild the club ready for the next 50 years, or so they want somebody with a spare million to keep us going and fight relegation?
Anybody know?
Whatever it is, and you make a good point - it surely has to be long term, and some reasonable guarantees on that score. I'd say minimum ten years
There's a fair chance we'll be looking for someone to invest in a team whose 102yo football league history has come to an end, although i've absolutely not given up on that - but it needs to be taken into account
Could i also suggest that any promotional video doesn't open with the strains of maudlin brass band music, but instead concentrates on the positives whilst being unafraid to put our case in its full perspective
A brief section about the much-improved social/leisure facilities in our vastly improving town centre would also hit the right notes, highlighting the restoration of our magnificent town hall. That could actually act as a metaphor - transformation through investment of the right kind
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 09:24 - Dec 31 by James1980
Also how about fans crowd funding to pay for Jesus to fly over from Spain. The award winning programme . All the work the club does within the community.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2022 12:07]
"programme", James. None of that American nonsense, please.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 11:54 - Dec 31 with 7037 views
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 11:49 - Dec 31 by TVOS1907
"programme", James. None of that American nonsense, please.
"American nonsense" - not sure about that. 'Correct' spelling in the English language is difficult. I remember a child spelling "egog" for hedgehog and had to admit that it made sense, in the same way that 'program' makes sense as the spelling of programme.
Topcat
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 12:07 - Dec 31 with 7000 views
Hopefully their maybe somebody within the fan base who would be able to produce such a professional video either free or at a reduced cost. I'm sure their are also many willing professional people with various trades who would be willing to offer services to the club. Along with the army of other volunteers who would be more than willing to do more menial tasks. We know they are out there from previous threads and those offers of help should not be ignored.
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 16:23 - Dec 31 with 6423 views
Don't know who in the club conceived and put this together, but it's not that long since it was widely lauded as a really stirring bit of work.
If something was going to be done along the lines of the OP suggestion, and ideally with some fan input, it seems we may already have some in-house talent. If it's out-sourced, the essence of the passion may be lost and the message diluted. Think I included all commas correctly? Punctuation is important. Let's eat, grandma just isn't the same without the comma. Spelling less so as as been shown?
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 16:23 - Dec 31 by DaleiLama
Don't know who in the club conceived and put this together, but it's not that long since it was widely lauded as a really stirring bit of work.
If something was going to be done along the lines of the OP suggestion, and ideally with some fan input, it seems we may already have some in-house talent. If it's out-sourced, the essence of the passion may be lost and the message diluted. Think I included all commas correctly? Punctuation is important. Let's eat, grandma just isn't the same without the comma. Spelling less so as as been shown?
Agree, needs to be done with 'art as well as skill
Absolutely staggered to see after the past 2 years that there are fans now openly inviting investment from business men with absolutely no connection to the town or club. What happened to us being fan owned? That being one of our big selling points?? How exactly is anyone going to get a return on their investment? There is absolutely no money to be made in football even in the Prem the clubs are running up huge debts and even the successful clubs are (mostly) just spending money they don’t care about being repaid. Outside investment makes us susceptible to the whims of a non-fan who we will be indebted to. I can’t see any scenario where it doesn’t end up with the club disappearing. For me the only possible model that can work for us is developing players (from our own academy and outside) who we can sell on to balance the books. And there IS plenty of money to be made that way we just need to put the proper processes in place to make this the clubs priority. We live or die by that model and of course it’s not guaranteed success but at least our future is in our own hands.
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 17:58 - Dec 31 with 6201 views
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 17:50 - Dec 31 by Cedar_Room
Absolutely staggered to see after the past 2 years that there are fans now openly inviting investment from business men with absolutely no connection to the town or club. What happened to us being fan owned? That being one of our big selling points?? How exactly is anyone going to get a return on their investment? There is absolutely no money to be made in football even in the Prem the clubs are running up huge debts and even the successful clubs are (mostly) just spending money they don’t care about being repaid. Outside investment makes us susceptible to the whims of a non-fan who we will be indebted to. I can’t see any scenario where it doesn’t end up with the club disappearing. For me the only possible model that can work for us is developing players (from our own academy and outside) who we can sell on to balance the books. And there IS plenty of money to be made that way we just need to put the proper processes in place to make this the clubs priority. We live or die by that model and of course it’s not guaranteed success but at least our future is in our own hands.
Cedar, did you read my reply to a similar post on the Doncaster match thread?
Instead of re-posting the same thing, what's your answer?
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 13:46 - Dec 31 by D_Alien
Typical train employee - one 'art, all 'art
7th is a rail strike day and the club have announced bring a friend for a tenner https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news So hopefully hopefully those friends that might have gone somewhere by train that day could be encouraged by their Dale supporting pals to join them at Spotland and give them a shoulder to cry on.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 19:22 - Dec 31 by James1980
7th is a rail strike day and the club have announced bring a friend for a tenner https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news So hopefully hopefully those friends that might have gone somewhere by train that day could be encouraged by their Dale supporting pals to join them at Spotland and give them a shoulder to cry on.
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 17:50 - Dec 31 by Cedar_Room
Absolutely staggered to see after the past 2 years that there are fans now openly inviting investment from business men with absolutely no connection to the town or club. What happened to us being fan owned? That being one of our big selling points?? How exactly is anyone going to get a return on their investment? There is absolutely no money to be made in football even in the Prem the clubs are running up huge debts and even the successful clubs are (mostly) just spending money they don’t care about being repaid. Outside investment makes us susceptible to the whims of a non-fan who we will be indebted to. I can’t see any scenario where it doesn’t end up with the club disappearing. For me the only possible model that can work for us is developing players (from our own academy and outside) who we can sell on to balance the books. And there IS plenty of money to be made that way we just need to put the proper processes in place to make this the clubs priority. We live or die by that model and of course it’s not guaranteed success but at least our future is in our own hands.
It's the Chairman and Directors who are openly inviting investors not the fans, haven't you seen the statement they released? If you can cover the massive financial deficit every season then educate us all because i'm struggling, fans volunteering their time and expertise isn't going to cover it. What's your plan apart from being reliant on selling youth players for over £1 million every year just to tread water? In a ideal world nobody wants outside investment but i don't think we have any other option to be honest. At least now we have a lot of good people in the club who will do their best to look after it, we didn't have that before and that's why David Bottomley pleaded guilty to the charges and has been banned from football for two years. Pleaded guilty is what people should be focusing on, he admitted to the charges because he had no other options.
[Post edited 1 Jan 2023 2:20]
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 12:12 - Jan 1 with 5506 views
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 01:54 - Jan 1 by TalkingSutty
It's the Chairman and Directors who are openly inviting investors not the fans, haven't you seen the statement they released? If you can cover the massive financial deficit every season then educate us all because i'm struggling, fans volunteering their time and expertise isn't going to cover it. What's your plan apart from being reliant on selling youth players for over £1 million every year just to tread water? In a ideal world nobody wants outside investment but i don't think we have any other option to be honest. At least now we have a lot of good people in the club who will do their best to look after it, we didn't have that before and that's why David Bottomley pleaded guilty to the charges and has been banned from football for two years. Pleaded guilty is what people should be focusing on, he admitted to the charges because he had no other options.
[Post edited 1 Jan 2023 2:20]
I’m talking about the fans who are welcoming the statement, saying outside investment will be a good thing and we should be encouraging it. Which is exactly what you’ve said in the original post. Which given all the problems seen at bury and AT OUR OWN CLUB is the most bizarre thing I can imagine. So I need to come up with a plan beyond the idea of balancing the books by selling players? Really? Well that’s the plan. We develop players and we sell them. That does the trick of getting money through the door and cancelling out the overspend. What’s your idea for how the investment is going to work exactly? If we are running at a loss every year then that will mean outside investment every single year. But let’s look at the two ways of operating. Let’s say we get a million pounds in from a player sale. Yes that comes in over a few years but the money is ours to do with what we want. Service the debt, go towards running costs, invest in the squad or the ground or training facilities. Whatever it’s our money. Now let’s look at a million from an investor. That comes with strings attached. The investor uses it to buy shares and gets a say in how the club is run or maybe they ‘loan’ us the money but that means at some point they’ll want to see a return. If it’s the Glazer approach of paying themselves dividends where does this money come from?? WE DON’T MAKE ANY MONEY! So let’s say they just want some sort of return from their million pound investment. Again WHERE DOES THIS MONEY COME FROM?? And it’s not going to be a one off investment either won’t we need to be covering a million pound shortfall every single year? So every time this happens the investor buys more shares and gets more control of the club until they are several million pounds in and have a controlling share. What do you think is the outcome of that? The only thing we have of any value is the ground. So at some point the investor has to say we’re cutting our losses and getting back some of our money by selling the only thing of value the club has. Which surely spells the end of the club. The club HAS to generate its own money. It can’t rely on someone propping us up with investments which are swallowed up by our running costs. The ONLY model I can see working to do that is developing and selling on players. And the only way your investment idea works is if we get someone so wealthy they don’t care about the losses and are prepared to pump in millions year after year without seeing a return. I find that idea to be completely laughable. We are the least successful team in the history of the football league. We aren’t a sleeping giant. We have two of the biggest clubs in the world 10 miles down the road who are quite easily attracting the attention of any football fans in the town much more easily than us. But let’s make a video attracting someone from Hollywood???? This is the most bury thing I’ve seen anyone write on this message board what planet are you living on. But OK let’s game out the scenario. Let’s say it happens and we get a rich investor who is going to bank roll us. Is that really what we want to see as a club?? Is that what our values are all about? Every single person on here seemed to be saying how great it was for us to become a fan owned club. A model for others because we have always paid our way. We haven’t wracked up debts and had them written off. We’ve lived within our means and been quite happy to criticise others who’ve bought their way to success and have got ahead by artificially inflating their balance books. Not least because the consensus has always been THIS NEVER ENDS WELL. but if it’s the Dale taking that approach all of a sudden you’d be happy? It wouldn’t matter. We’d be Newcastle fans would we wearing Saudi colours in our kit, cheering it all along because success at any cost is still success?? Nah. Not for me. Won’t thrown my support behind it. You’ve either got some principles or you don’t.
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 12:18 - Jan 1 with 5479 views
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 19:22 - Dec 31 by James1980
7th is a rail strike day and the club have announced bring a friend for a tenner https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news So hopefully hopefully those friends that might have gone somewhere by train that day could be encouraged by their Dale supporting pals to join them at Spotland and give them a shoulder to cry on.
Actually, advertising on the platforms might not be a bad idea. The Manchester platform is packed at peak hours and some of the current adverts are for gigs which happened last year (as in 2021).
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A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 12:34 - Jan 1 with 5419 views
Whilst not necessarily agreeing with all points made by CedarRoom or those made by others, it’s possible to see the arguments on both sides. However, it was clear this club DID have a model, one that was both clear for those involved at Spotland and to all fans who supported and were rightly proud of it:
We developed players, either our own (Allen, Cannon, Camps) or improved those we brought in (Lambert, Murray, Le Fondre, Dawson, Hogan etc etc), to sell for a profit with add-one bringing more money as time moved on.
What’s changed is the team has got progressively worse on the field and that means potential sales and also chances of winning games to progress in cup competitions are drying up. The reasons for this can be talked about for forever - there’s no need, because it’s boring seeing the same argument time and again when we can only affect where we are now.
So no, we didn’t always need outside investment - at least not to the level where someone could have a controlling influence on the club. We were proud of our model, proud of being fan owned whilst that model has potential to work and proud we could compete on the pitch. Any talk of that of that not being the case is revising history and misses the point that was made numerous times over the years; we didn’t focus enough on evolving the club off the pitch as a business to sustain things when we would inevitably hit a spell when we were a bit rubbish on it.
It’s not as though it wasn’t mentioned time and again for years!
A unique football club..why you should invest in it? on 12:12 - Jan 1 by Cedar_Room
I’m talking about the fans who are welcoming the statement, saying outside investment will be a good thing and we should be encouraging it. Which is exactly what you’ve said in the original post. Which given all the problems seen at bury and AT OUR OWN CLUB is the most bizarre thing I can imagine. So I need to come up with a plan beyond the idea of balancing the books by selling players? Really? Well that’s the plan. We develop players and we sell them. That does the trick of getting money through the door and cancelling out the overspend. What’s your idea for how the investment is going to work exactly? If we are running at a loss every year then that will mean outside investment every single year. But let’s look at the two ways of operating. Let’s say we get a million pounds in from a player sale. Yes that comes in over a few years but the money is ours to do with what we want. Service the debt, go towards running costs, invest in the squad or the ground or training facilities. Whatever it’s our money. Now let’s look at a million from an investor. That comes with strings attached. The investor uses it to buy shares and gets a say in how the club is run or maybe they ‘loan’ us the money but that means at some point they’ll want to see a return. If it’s the Glazer approach of paying themselves dividends where does this money come from?? WE DON’T MAKE ANY MONEY! So let’s say they just want some sort of return from their million pound investment. Again WHERE DOES THIS MONEY COME FROM?? And it’s not going to be a one off investment either won’t we need to be covering a million pound shortfall every single year? So every time this happens the investor buys more shares and gets more control of the club until they are several million pounds in and have a controlling share. What do you think is the outcome of that? The only thing we have of any value is the ground. So at some point the investor has to say we’re cutting our losses and getting back some of our money by selling the only thing of value the club has. Which surely spells the end of the club. The club HAS to generate its own money. It can’t rely on someone propping us up with investments which are swallowed up by our running costs. The ONLY model I can see working to do that is developing and selling on players. And the only way your investment idea works is if we get someone so wealthy they don’t care about the losses and are prepared to pump in millions year after year without seeing a return. I find that idea to be completely laughable. We are the least successful team in the history of the football league. We aren’t a sleeping giant. We have two of the biggest clubs in the world 10 miles down the road who are quite easily attracting the attention of any football fans in the town much more easily than us. But let’s make a video attracting someone from Hollywood???? This is the most bury thing I’ve seen anyone write on this message board what planet are you living on. But OK let’s game out the scenario. Let’s say it happens and we get a rich investor who is going to bank roll us. Is that really what we want to see as a club?? Is that what our values are all about? Every single person on here seemed to be saying how great it was for us to become a fan owned club. A model for others because we have always paid our way. We haven’t wracked up debts and had them written off. We’ve lived within our means and been quite happy to criticise others who’ve bought their way to success and have got ahead by artificially inflating their balance books. Not least because the consensus has always been THIS NEVER ENDS WELL. but if it’s the Dale taking that approach all of a sudden you’d be happy? It wouldn’t matter. We’d be Newcastle fans would we wearing Saudi colours in our kit, cheering it all along because success at any cost is still success?? Nah. Not for me. Won’t thrown my support behind it. You’ve either got some principles or you don’t.
Thanks... for telling us something we all know in our hearts, at least as well as you do
Now... what happens when the player sales dry up? As 442Dale has pointed out, our diminishing status on the pitch has left us in a situation where we're much less likely to attract the raw talent that can be developed, whilst our home-grown youngsters (Brierley and one or two others making good progress) aren't likely to cover this year's financial deficit let alone next, and when they're gone, they're gone. Matheson was an absolute fluke, and without the goal he scored at OT probably wouldn't have gone for the amount he did which helped cover a lot of the cracks in our finances at the time. Basically, we'd need the equivalent of something like that to happen EVERY YEAR to cover our deficit
As i said originally, railing against our situation isn't much use. We need new solutions, bearing in mind all relevant factors including the fact we could well be outside the EFL within a few short months
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