| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... 18:28 - Apr 28 with 2783 views | Boris_ |
How many of those 95% had chronic and terminal illnesses and how many died WITH Covid-19 as opposed to BECAUSE of Covid-19
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-95-of-victims-in-england-hospitals-had-un
Take Eddie Large for example... was in hospital with terminal heart failure and given days to live BEFORE he contracted Covid-19. He dies of heart failure.
His death certificate includes Covid-19 so he's added on to the numbers of Coronavirus deaths.
Does that sound right? It's likely that deaths BECAUSE of Coronavirus are likely to be a couple of thousand ( at the most ).
BECAUSE and WITH are two completely different things. |  |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 18:40 - Apr 28 with 1479 views | Bicester_North |
This a fair question Boris. A couple of thousand is still terrible but I’ve got a feeling when all this is done and fully researched that this disease won’t be anything like as deadly as currently reported.
I could be wrong of course and if it “mutates” it could get worse, let’s hope not but as a lot of people are saying the collapse of the economy, law and order, mental health and other illnesses that lockdown followed by mass unemployment could cause will result in a huge number of excess deaths |  |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 18:47 - Apr 28 with 1465 views | Happy_Jack |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 18:40 - Apr 28 by Bicester_North |
This a fair question Boris. A couple of thousand is still terrible but I’ve got a feeling when all this is done and fully researched that this disease won’t be anything like as deadly as currently reported.
I could be wrong of course and if it “mutates” it could get worse, let’s hope not but as a lot of people are saying the collapse of the economy, law and order, mental health and other illnesses that lockdown followed by mass unemployment could cause will result in a huge number of excess deaths |
You're second paragraph raises the uncomfortable truths that must be faced sooner rather than later. The damage done by an extended lockdown will be absolutely catastrophic. |  |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 19:30 - Apr 28 with 1435 views | Boris_ |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 18:47 - Apr 28 by Happy_Jack |
You're second paragraph raises the uncomfortable truths that must be faced sooner rather than later. The damage done by an extended lockdown will be absolutely catastrophic. |
Agreed. Unfortunately those who know little about BUSINESS or simply want more time off work on 80% will shout and scream against lifting lockdown.
Many many more fit and healthy people will be affected and die than ever will die BECAUSE of Coronavirus. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 19:43 - Apr 28 with 1417 views | battler |
Hold on a minute, that's a Guardian article from yesterday and yet certain people on here have been posting Guardian links continuously over the last few weeks and yet this one seems to of slipped through the net, strange.... | | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 19:50 - Apr 28 with 1394 views | this_charming_man |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 19:43 - Apr 28 by battler |
Hold on a minute, that's a Guardian article from yesterday and yet certain people on here have been posting Guardian links continuously over the last few weeks and yet this one seems to of slipped through the net, strange.... |
Funny that isn’t it, I actually deliberately chose a guardian article so no one could just go oh it’s mail/sun some other right wing biased paper. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 20:02 - Apr 28 with 1386 views | Centurion |
The important statistic is how many more fatalities are we seeing now than the average for this month in the last 10 years.
This gives a much true picture of the effect of the COV 19 virus imo. | | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 21:19 - Apr 28 with 1311 views | pjt50 |
A windup, I hope! All that will mean is that some people have died sooner than they should have done. They've been deprived of up to 6 months of life, so it's quite right that they should be included in the figures.
None of us should judge the quality of life of the “nearly dead”, as you put it. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 21:24 - Apr 28 with 1294 views | grumpy |
'Nearly Dead' good grief.............. |  | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 22:16 - Apr 28 with 1239 views | Boris_ |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 21:24 - Apr 28 by grumpy |
'Nearly Dead' good grief.............. |
Jesus, is society so wet now that you have to think up a more politically correct saying? All reports suggest that the majority of deaths were people suffering chronic and terminal illnesses ( eg: nearly dead ) such as Eddie Large who was in hospital on his death bed with heart failure. Yet purely because he happened to test positive for Covid, his death is classed as a coronvirus death.
The point about 6 months being that it is proof that it tips seriously and terminally ill people over the edge so you will see a lag in deaths after 6 months below normal levels, where you wouldn’t if it was killing fit and healthy people. Of course it’s not nice but it’s a pandemic ffs and you can live in a fairytale land if you want but the government won’t be able to save everyone. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 22:39 - Apr 28 with 1216 views | Sadoldgit |
Were all of the NHS staff killed by the virus “nearly dead”? |  | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 22:47 - Apr 28 with 1208 views | pjt50 |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 22:16 - Apr 28 by Boris_ |
Jesus, is society so wet now that you have to think up a more politically correct saying? All reports suggest that the majority of deaths were people suffering chronic and terminal illnesses ( eg: nearly dead ) such as Eddie Large who was in hospital on his death bed with heart failure. Yet purely because he happened to test positive for Covid, his death is classed as a coronvirus death.
The point about 6 months being that it is proof that it tips seriously and terminally ill people over the edge so you will see a lag in deaths after 6 months below normal levels, where you wouldn’t if it was killing fit and healthy people. Of course it’s not nice but it’s a pandemic ffs and you can live in a fairytale land if you want but the government won’t be able to save everyone. |
All the people who have died of COVID-19 were going to die at some time, so maybe there have been no victims at all... | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:00 - Apr 28 with 1193 views | Boris_ |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 22:39 - Apr 28 by Sadoldgit |
Were all of the NHS staff killed by the virus “nearly dead”? |
So you’re moving this thread away from the fact that 95% of deaths have involved people with serious underlying medical issues ( posing the question how many died BECAUSE of Covid as opposed to WITH, so what is the true number of deaths? )
Clearly the NHS staff who have tragically died on the frontline are in the 5% | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:04 - Apr 28 with 1191 views | Sadoldgit |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 22:47 - Apr 28 by pjt50 |
All the people who have died of COVID-19 were going to die at some time, so maybe there have been no victims at all... |
Good point! Thing is, hundreds of thousands of people have “underlying health conditions” such as diabetes that can make them more likely to die from the virus, why should their lives be put at risk so that businesses can reopen early? Until we sort out the whole testing and contact tracing issue, the mask wearing issue (why in Scotland but not here) etc. there should be no easing of lockdown. | | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:09 - Apr 28 with 1183 views | Boris_ |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:04 - Apr 28 by Sadoldgit |
Good point! Thing is, hundreds of thousands of people have “underlying health conditions” such as diabetes that can make them more likely to die from the virus, why should their lives be put at risk so that businesses can reopen early? Until we sort out the whole testing and contact tracing issue, the mask wearing issue (why in Scotland but not here) etc. there should be no easing of lockdown. |
People who need shielding can remain at home. Both of my parents are in the vulnerable category and they have simply decided not to go out and not have visitors. Sanitise often, especially before and after deliveries.
The virus won’t sneak under the front door.
Many more people will die from a broken economy over the coming years than would die of coronavirus of the vulnerable were shielded and the healthy were sent back to work, whilst being sensible about social distancing and hygiene. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:17 - Apr 28 with 1174 views | Sadoldgit |
Apparently our mortality rate could end up being the highest in Europe. Is that’s because we have more people with underlying health issues? Unlikely. We don’t know what will happen when this finally gets sorted but clearly there will be issues that the government will need to address. But why sacrifice lives now to save possible hypothetical lives in the future? | | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:28 - Apr 28 with 1158 views | PatfromPoole |
The UK was never going to do well with this type of virus, given the density of the population.
It’s little coincidence that the South West has had the least deaths and hospital visits, given the relatively rural environment.
I personally don’t believe the 95% statistic, particularly in London.
I just don’t see how we can lessen the lockdown, unless the Government does a complete U-turn and accept the 200,000 deaths which the initial studies said we would get if we did not go harsh on the social distancing measures.
It’s for this reason I am so against football returning in any capacity. It’s a stepping stone towards mass deaths. I fail to see how people are blind to this. |  |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:33 - Apr 28 with 1154 views | this_charming_man |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:17 - Apr 28 by Sadoldgit |
Apparently our mortality rate could end up being the highest in Europe. Is that’s because we have more people with underlying health issues? Unlikely. We don’t know what will happen when this finally gets sorted but clearly there will be issues that the government will need to address. But why sacrifice lives now to save possible hypothetical lives in the future? |
Obviously we are going to have more deaths because we’ve got a bigger and more dense population than most of Europe. We have less deaths per million than Italy, Spain and France, but that does suit your drama queen, blame the tories agenda does it. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 06:40 - Apr 29 with 1103 views | Boris_ |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:17 - Apr 28 by Sadoldgit |
Apparently our mortality rate could end up being the highest in Europe. Is that’s because we have more people with underlying health issues? Unlikely. We don’t know what will happen when this finally gets sorted but clearly there will be issues that the government will need to address. But why sacrifice lives now to save possible hypothetical lives in the future? |
I don't know why we are counting numbers like it's the Eurovision Song Contest, there are so many different variables when it comes to reporting between each country.
Population per square kilometre:
England 430
France 117
Spain 91
Italy 207
Germany 240
Australia 3
New Zealand 18
What that means is that the virus can spread twice ( in some cases almost 5 times ) as easily as it can in other countries.
Are figures true? Anyone who believes China's figure for example probably needs to stop reading newspapers.
How are countries recording deaths? Are other countries recording those who have died WITH Coronavirus or BECAUSE? If we published figures of who died BECAUSE of Coronavirus, looking at all of the other stats, our numbers like likely to be a few thousand who have died, not 25,000
I don't know why people are so obsessed with finding reasons why the government are completely responsible for the deaths and unwilling to look at other contributing factors. England is the most densely populated country in Europe. The virus transmits from person to person... [Post edited 29 Apr 2020 6:46]
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 06:41 - Apr 29 with 1103 views | cynicalsaint |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 23:33 - Apr 28 by this_charming_man |
Obviously we are going to have more deaths because we’ve got a bigger and more dense population than most of Europe. We have less deaths per million than Italy, Spain and France, but that does suit your drama queen, blame the tories agenda does it. |
think you nailed it with "we've got a bigger and more dense population"
Bigger - according to OECD 27% of the UK has a BMI >30, more than any other country in Western Europe.
More Dense - you only have to read some of the drivel that gets spouted on here to prove that point. | | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 07:02 - Apr 29 with 1084 views | Boris_ |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 06:41 - Apr 29 by cynicalsaint |
think you nailed it with "we've got a bigger and more dense population"
Bigger - according to OECD 27% of the UK has a BMI >30, more than any other country in Western Europe.
More Dense - you only have to read some of the drivel that gets spouted on here to prove that point. |
See that's the thing. Muppets listen to Piers Morgan shouting out 'Why aren't we like New Zealand?!' and are too thick to understand that their country has 30 times less people per square kilometre than us.
It's common sense... unless you have a political agenda and just want to bash the government at every opportunity. | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 07:10 - Apr 29 with 1067 views | JaySaint |
The crisis has been fascinating watching how FBPE followers are all over the place....
Before the new year:
Making stuff in the UK for the UK means you are a disgusting little Englander!
Uncontrolled immigration in good for the country, if you are concerned about how many people are coming here, then you are a fecking racist!
Why are we allowing old people to vote, kids are the future, hopefully enough old people will die and we will have another Brexit referendum!
Helping our EU and international partners is essential and simply racist to cut these people off.
Since the last month or so:
The fact we dont make anything any more for the UK is a disgrace.
We must lockdown hard and shut the borders, letting people in is killing us.
Old people are the best of this country, every death of these people is a national disgrace
Why the feck are we dealing with any country but our own, this is a national disgrace and the Tories should pay..
I guess, when it comes to it, we are all brexiteers at heart! | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 08:20 - Apr 29 with 1026 views | grumpy |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 07:10 - Apr 29 by JaySaint |
The crisis has been fascinating watching how FBPE followers are all over the place....
Before the new year:
Making stuff in the UK for the UK means you are a disgusting little Englander!
Uncontrolled immigration in good for the country, if you are concerned about how many people are coming here, then you are a fecking racist!
Why are we allowing old people to vote, kids are the future, hopefully enough old people will die and we will have another Brexit referendum!
Helping our EU and international partners is essential and simply racist to cut these people off.
Since the last month or so:
The fact we dont make anything any more for the UK is a disgrace.
We must lockdown hard and shut the borders, letting people in is killing us.
Old people are the best of this country, every death of these people is a national disgrace
Why the feck are we dealing with any country but our own, this is a national disgrace and the Tories should pay..
I guess, when it comes to it, we are all brexiteers at heart! |
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU call those that don't a disgusting little Englanders?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say uncontrolled immigration is good for the country?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU call those that don't a racist?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say hopefully old people will die and we will have another Brexit referendum!
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say'Helping our EU and international partners is essential and simply racist to cut these people off'?
You're making things up,of course there were extremists on both sides but to say that the majority thought like that is WRONG.
As for your'Since the last month or so' its not even worth commenting on. | | | |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 08:33 - Apr 29 with 1007 views | Bicester_North |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 08:20 - Apr 29 by grumpy |
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU call those that don't a disgusting little Englanders?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say uncontrolled immigration is good for the country?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU call those that don't a racist?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say hopefully old people will die and we will have another Brexit referendum!
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say'Helping our EU and international partners is essential and simply racist to cut these people off'?
You're making things up,of course there were extremists on both sides but to say that the majority thought like that is WRONG.
As for your'Since the last month or so' its not even worth commenting on. |
You obviously don’t look on Twitter, to be fair to Jay Saint all of those things were said regularly on there during Brexit build up and the election | |
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| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 08:35 - Apr 29 with 978 views | solent_toffee |
| 95% of victims had serious underlying conditions... on 08:20 - Apr 29 by grumpy |
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU call those that don't a disgusting little Englanders?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say uncontrolled immigration is good for the country?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU call those that don't a racist?
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say hopefully old people will die and we will have another Brexit referendum!
Since when did people wanting to stay in the EU say'Helping our EU and international partners is essential and simply racist to cut these people off'?
You're making things up,of course there were extremists on both sides but to say that the majority thought like that is WRONG.
As for your'Since the last month or so' its not even worth commenting on. |
This is why you should never talk politics in the pub, imagine some of the discussions that go on here in a pub with a couple of pints in! | | | |
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