| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread 10:17 - Feb 24 with 15015 views | SaintNick |
This thread for all the debates on the developing situation |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 10:47 - Feb 24 with 4542 views | dwayne_dibley |
Ready Brek for breakfast |  |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 10:55 - Feb 24 with 4527 views | PaleRider |
I'm sure Vlad the Invader is quaking in his boots as he surveys the opposition:
US - captained by a man who barely knows what day of the week it is and whose major military act was to run away from Afghanistan;
UK - captained by a con man whose "team" has been financed by Russians;
France - captained by a popinjay (to use an old fashioned word);
Germany - captained by a non-entity; and
The EU - captained by an incompetent.
Russia will cope with sanctions as they have opened the back door to China and can easily funnel money around the World through other third countries.
On a side note, I wonder how much money British Public Schools make from Russia & China? |  | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:04 - Feb 24 with 4476 views | Saintsforeverj |
“To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history. All relevant decisions have been taken. I hope you hear me,” he said.
Putin is setting the course, ruling over the world and we are letting him. Obviously the west is too scared to interfere. They are officially invading Ukraine. 100s dead already after various explosions. Where will it stop? Shame on the west for allowing this and doing nothing. The weak USA under a sleepy Biden, is a huge reason for this. Without the USA, other countries are stuck. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 12:12]
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:35 - Feb 24 with 4416 views | Heisenberg |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:04 - Feb 24 by Saintsforeverj |
“To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history. All relevant decisions have been taken. I hope you hear me,” he said.
Putin is setting the course, ruling over the world and we are letting him. Obviously the west is too scared to interfere. They are officially invading Ukraine. 100s dead already after various explosions. Where will it stop? Shame on the west for allowing this and doing nothing. The weak USA under a sleepy Biden, is a huge reason for this. Without the USA, other countries are stuck. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 12:12]
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What alternative do you suggest ? |  |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:37 - Feb 24 with 4419 views | saint901 |
It's a tragic waste of lives for the sake of political ideas.
Why did the nations backing NATO think that Russia would permit the possible stationing of hostile forces within a day's tank drive from Moscow?
I get the fact we should support democracy (and Russia is very definitely not that) and Ukraine should be allowed to develop as it sees fit and deal with internal issues as it sees fit (is their situation any difference from Spain and the Basques?).
However to risk democracy over the whole of Western Europe and the Americas and Asia just to show Putin "who's boss" is reckless.
Some sort of associate membership of NATO with a limit on western forces might be worth discussing (or hopefully has already been discussed) but if so, nobody is saying.
So now we have hard line rhetoric from a bunch of politicians who know (and we know) cannot deliver and meaningful slap to Russia and certainly not enough of a blow to make them think twice.
Instead we will see already discredited and hypocritical UK politicians who have spunked away all trust and integrity in British politics, cry crocodile tears and promise sanctions that will take a decade to have effect.
Short of a hot war which nobody wants in Europe, we're made to look hopeless and hapless whilst Putin rubs our noses in it. And that has to be at the feet of all politicians.
And civilians will die, families will be blown apart and the population will pay the price of a failed political class. It's always been thus. That does not make it right or acceptable.
In my view we should be preparing a defensive line across Ukraine to prevent westward expansion of the Russian invasion and it should be a very public display of western military power sufficient to make Putin think more than twice about crossing that line. Won't happen because it would be seen as inflammatory and provocative.
I'm feeling shamed by our politicians (all of them). | | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:40 - Feb 24 with 4412 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:35 - Feb 24 by Heisenberg |
What alternative do you suggest ? |
The west should be threatening to blow Russia to smitherines, if they don't pull out now. USA, UK, NATO, EU should be getting heavy, with military tanks and personnel swarming all.over Russia or on the borders. Fight fire with fire. You don't let a bully roam free. Sanctions will do nothing but affect Russia's poor and our way of life too with 600% fuel price rises. Putin won't care about that. We might as well forget the sanctions if we arn't going to actually stop the invasion because the sanctions won't stop Putin. He is clapping his hands at our weak leaders across the world. We are effectively allowing Putin to bully the world with his threats, without any threats back. Putin saw how easy it was for the Taliban. He is striking now because the world is weak. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 12:44]
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:44 - Feb 24 with 4389 views | PaleRider |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:40 - Feb 24 by Saintsforeverj |
The west should be threatening to blow Russia to smitherines, if they don't pull out now. USA, UK, NATO, EU should be getting heavy, with military tanks and personnel swarming all.over Russia or on the borders. Fight fire with fire. You don't let a bully roam free. Sanctions will do nothing but affect Russia's poor and our way of life too with 600% fuel price rises. Putin won't care about that. We might as well forget the sanctions if we arn't going to actually stop the invasion because the sanctions won't stop Putin. He is clapping his hands at our weak leaders across the world. We are effectively allowing Putin to bully the world with his threats, without any threats back. Putin saw how easy it was for the Taliban. He is striking now because the world is weak. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 12:44]
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Unfortunately NATO has never squared off in actual combat with an enemy who is as remotely powerful. Add to this the lack of appetite for war in the west, unless we could do it on Tik Tok, and democracy is basically fvcked.
Having said that, I don't know what the alternatives are other than to:
1) Sacrifice Ukraine;
2) Put a huge military presence in Hungary, Romania, Poland and the Baltics and hope that Putin stops at Ukraine!
3) Wait for Taiwan to go the same way. | | | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:51 - Feb 24 with 4364 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:44 - Feb 24 by PaleRider |
Unfortunately NATO has never squared off in actual combat with an enemy who is as remotely powerful. Add to this the lack of appetite for war in the west, unless we could do it on Tik Tok, and democracy is basically fvcked.
Having said that, I don't know what the alternatives are other than to:
1) Sacrifice Ukraine;
2) Put a huge military presence in Hungary, Romania, Poland and the Baltics and hope that Putin stops at Ukraine!
3) Wait for Taiwan to go the same way. |
I think a psycho dictator like Putin won't stop at Ukraine, if he faces no resistance. He will think that was easy, and go further. He needs to be stopped with force and might before it's too late. Sanctions are letting him off lightly. All we need to do, is put military on the border from all countries across the world and stop their advance by force. Or at least, someone set the tone of what we will allow. At the moment, Putin is putting himself in charge. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 12:55]
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:57 - Feb 24 with 4353 views | franniesTache |
They have to sanction all of the oligarch and putin himself now, then they have to move some serious hardware to the border also - there's a good argument for removing russia's access to SWIFT
And they need to remove russian companies secondary listings from FTSE/DOW/NASDAQ/DAX and CAC.
I'm not going to hold my breath on any of that happening mind. |  | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:00 - Feb 24 with 4333 views | Heisenberg |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:40 - Feb 24 by Saintsforeverj |
The west should be threatening to blow Russia to smitherines, if they don't pull out now. USA, UK, NATO, EU should be getting heavy, with military tanks and personnel swarming all.over Russia or on the borders. Fight fire with fire. You don't let a bully roam free. Sanctions will do nothing but affect Russia's poor and our way of life too with 600% fuel price rises. Putin won't care about that. We might as well forget the sanctions if we arn't going to actually stop the invasion because the sanctions won't stop Putin. He is clapping his hands at our weak leaders across the world. We are effectively allowing Putin to bully the world with his threats, without any threats back. Putin saw how easy it was for the Taliban. He is striking now because the world is weak. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 12:44]
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Well thank god you are nowhere near the trigger. What you suggest is to gamble with the future of mankind.
NATO and the EUs growth alongside Putins expansionism was always going to end this way either in the Ukraine or Belarus or elsewhere. All we can hope for is Putins grip on power isn’t as tight as he thinks and as Russia gets bogged down trying to occupy another country and the human cost escalates then the appetite for war may lessen. It happened in Iraq Afghanistan Vietnam and elsewhere. All we can do is squeeze Russian interests at home and abroad. | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:01 - Feb 24 with 4331 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 12:57 - Feb 24 by franniesTache |
They have to sanction all of the oligarch and putin himself now, then they have to move some serious hardware to the border also - there's a good argument for removing russia's access to SWIFT
And they need to remove russian companies secondary listings from FTSE/DOW/NASDAQ/DAX and CAC.
I'm not going to hold my breath on any of that happening mind. |
The problem is that Putin won't suffer any financial consequence himself. I doubt he will care if his people suffer because they can't get access to money. Similar situation in Afghanistan where people are starving to death, whilst Taliban leaders live in luxury. They won't back down though as the leaders are alright Jack. | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:04 - Feb 24 with 4327 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:00 - Feb 24 by Heisenberg |
Well thank god you are nowhere near the trigger. What you suggest is to gamble with the future of mankind.
NATO and the EUs growth alongside Putins expansionism was always going to end this way either in the Ukraine or Belarus or elsewhere. All we can hope for is Putins grip on power isn’t as tight as he thinks and as Russia gets bogged down trying to occupy another country and the human cost escalates then the appetite for war may lessen. It happened in Iraq Afghanistan Vietnam and elsewhere. All we can do is squeeze Russian interests at home and abroad. |
You think just leave Putin to kill thousands of Ukrainian people in an illegal invasion of a country? Sanctions are clearly not having any impact whatsoever. You don't think you stop a bully by fighting back? | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:07 - Feb 24 with 4323 views | franniesTache |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:01 - Feb 24 by Saintsforeverj |
The problem is that Putin won't suffer any financial consequence himself. I doubt he will care if his people suffer because they can't get access to money. Similar situation in Afghanistan where people are starving to death, whilst Taliban leaders live in luxury. They won't back down though as the leaders are alright Jack. |
In the short term you're probably right, but Putin isn't like the Talban leaaders, he's not backed by other countries, his money comes from the oligarchs and corruption, and it seems very realistic you could unsettle him by removing the money.
Anything military has to be the very last resort because it will end catastrophically for everyone involved | | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:15 - Feb 24 with 4306 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:07 - Feb 24 by franniesTache |
In the short term you're probably right, but Putin isn't like the Talban leaaders, he's not backed by other countries, his money comes from the oligarchs and corruption, and it seems very realistic you could unsettle him by removing the money.
Anything military has to be the very last resort because it will end catastrophically for everyone involved |
I agree about the consequences of military involvement and should be a last resort. I assume though that Ukraine will try to defend its country militarily anyway. I am of the opinion that the west should help them, because it is an illegal invasion and Putin could try to take over the world, and go much further, if not stopped. Surely if you put the military power of USA, UK, NATO, EU together, we could simply form a theoretical line and stop their advance. I'm not sure allowing an illegal takeover of another country, is the right thing to do. The message for the future is very dangerous if we allow this.
If another country tried to invade the UK, bombing our cities, I would hope we would fight back and our allies would help us. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 13:17]
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:17 - Feb 24 with 4297 views | franniesTache |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:15 - Feb 24 by Saintsforeverj |
I agree about the consequences of military involvement and should be a last resort. I assume though that Ukraine will try to defend its country militarily anyway. I am of the opinion that the west should help them, because it is an illegal invasion and Putin could try to take over the world, and go much further, if not stopped. Surely if you put the military power of USA, UK, NATO, EU together, we could simply form a theoretical line and stop their advance. I'm not sure allowing an illegal takeover of another country, is the right thing to do. The message for the future is very dangerous if we allow this.
If another country tried to invade the UK, bombing our cities, I would hope we would fight back and our allies would help us. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 13:17]
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The problem is that option is now gone, Russia have troops on the ground in the Ukraine, if the EU/NATO whoever moved troops in it would be seen as an act of aggression and declaration of war from Putin. | | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:25 - Feb 24 with 4288 views | saint68 |
Assassination..end of story. | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:26 - Feb 24 with 4285 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:17 - Feb 24 by franniesTache |
The problem is that option is now gone, Russia have troops on the ground in the Ukraine, if the EU/NATO whoever moved troops in it would be seen as an act of aggression and declaration of war from Putin. |
I suppose I would like to see some leadership from Western leaders, setting out what we are prepared to allow. How do we know Putin isn't another Hitler if he can sense weakness in the world? [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 13:27]
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:34 - Feb 24 with 4274 views | saint68 |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:26 - Feb 24 by Saintsforeverj |
I suppose I would like to see some leadership from Western leaders, setting out what we are prepared to allow. How do we know Putin isn't another Hitler if he can sense weakness in the world? [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 13:27]
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Putin is a terrorist by any other name, albeit a terrorist with a massive army and nuclear weapons...he's already threatened retaliation the like of never seen before...
No sanctions, no war...assassination is the only way to prevent the unthinkable happening. | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 14:48 - Feb 24 with 4199 views | Sadoldgit |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 13:34 - Feb 24 by saint68 |
Putin is a terrorist by any other name, albeit a terrorist with a massive army and nuclear weapons...he's already threatened retaliation the like of never seen before...
No sanctions, no war...assassination is the only way to prevent the unthinkable happening. |
I thought you said he was dying anyway? |  | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 14:54 - Feb 24 with 4189 views | saints__fan__73 |
Scotland are playing Ukraine in the WC playoffs in a couple of weeks. Not sure if it will be the Russia B squad by then.... |  |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 15:11 - Feb 24 with 4150 views | saint68 |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 14:48 - Feb 24 by Sadoldgit |
I thought you said he was dying anyway? |
It needs fast tracking before he kills thousands of innocent people for absolutely no reason at all...
I'm sure the Russian public wouldn't be to bothered if he's knocked off..preferably by another Russian national... | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 15:15 - Feb 24 with 4140 views | Berber |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 10:55 - Feb 24 by PaleRider |
I'm sure Vlad the Invader is quaking in his boots as he surveys the opposition:
US - captained by a man who barely knows what day of the week it is and whose major military act was to run away from Afghanistan;
UK - captained by a con man whose "team" has been financed by Russians;
France - captained by a popinjay (to use an old fashioned word);
Germany - captained by a non-entity; and
The EU - captained by an incompetent.
Russia will cope with sanctions as they have opened the back door to China and can easily funnel money around the World through other third countries.
On a side note, I wonder how much money British Public Schools make from Russia & China? |
A vain popinjay, what's more. |  | | |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 15:18 - Feb 24 with 4135 views | saints__fan__73 |
| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 15:15 - Feb 24 by Berber |
A vain popinjay, what's more. |
Tautology. | |
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| Ukraine V Russia Matchday Thread on 15:23 - Feb 24 with 4128 views | Berber |
So all the Ukraine comments are to be found in the footy threads then? | | | |
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