| 1st In the Table 15:38 - Oct 26 with 1636 views | SaintNick |
That is where we would be if we hadn't gifted so many goals through individual errors, it isn't the possession football that has been costing us it is the individual errors. |  |
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| 1st In the Table on 15:55 - Oct 26 with 1603 views | saints__fan__73 |
Individual errors caused by the players being forced to play possession based football, yes? |  |
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| 1st In the Table on 16:24 - Oct 26 with 1557 views | kingslandstand1 |
| 1st In the Table on 15:55 - Oct 26 by saints__fan__73 |
Individual errors caused by the players being forced to play possession based football, yes? |
Nothing wrong with being forced to play possession football, the problem is the players just aren't good enough to play possession football! Hence the individual errors as you have alluded to |  | | |
| 1st In the Table on 16:34 - Oct 26 with 1542 views | PatfromPoole |
I also think that some of the "individual errors" are more a function of us being required to play in a certain way, by taking chances when in possession in our own defensive third of the pitch.
Call it an individual error if you like, but players are clearly being told to play in a certain way which is going to bring associated risks.
Presumably "individual errors" just also happened to be rife at Swansea and MK Dons..... |  |
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| 1st In the Table on 16:49 - Oct 26 with 1535 views | saints__fan__73 |
| 1st In the Table on 16:24 - Oct 26 by kingslandstand1 |
Nothing wrong with being forced to play possession football, the problem is the players just aren't good enough to play possession football! Hence the individual errors as you have alluded to |
Aren't your two statements contradictory?
If the players we have aren't good enough to play this way (and they won't be, we are in the 2nd tier...) then we shouldn't be asking them to play this way. | |
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| 1st In the Table on 16:57 - Oct 26 with 1520 views | saint22 |
made by individuals picked by an incompetent manager and usually the same individuals picked again and again |  | | |
| 1st In the Table on 21:01 - Oct 26 with 1394 views | Ron11 |
| 1st In the Table on 16:34 - Oct 26 by PatfromPoole |
I also think that some of the "individual errors" are more a function of us being required to play in a certain way, by taking chances when in possession in our own defensive third of the pitch.
Call it an individual error if you like, but players are clearly being told to play in a certain way which is going to bring associated risks.
Presumably "individual errors" just also happened to be rife at Swansea and MK Dons..... |
Exactly.
Most us can see it, the taking of chances in our own defensive third, and so do other managers, witness the two quick fire Preston goals and then the panic subs by Martin when he didn't have a plan B or a clue - then just got lucky again.
Then the prick acts like he's the new Messiah of football at Saints. | | | |
| 1st In the Table on 22:14 - Oct 26 with 1330 views | SaintNick |
| 1st In the Table on 21:01 - Oct 26 by Ron11 |
Exactly.
Most us can see it, the taking of chances in our own defensive third, and so do other managers, witness the two quick fire Preston goals and then the panic subs by Martin when he didn't have a plan B or a clue - then just got lucky again.
Then the prick acts like he's the new Messiah of football at Saints. |
If you were a neutral observer reading this thread you would be thinking "Christ they are 5th in the League are only 1 point from 3rd place what would they be like if they were 10th" | |
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| 1st In the Table on 00:56 - Oct 27 with 1281 views | TimSaint |
You need to recalculate Nick.
Even if we hadn't conceded a single goal this season, the fact that we failed to score against Sunderland and Ipswich, means we could only have taken 1 point from each of those games, so we would still be a point behind Leicester.
The fact that we have had just 1 clean sheet this season and have conceded the joint most goals in the division, suggests there is much more to it than individual errors being punished, but we all know that anyway. |  |
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| 1st In the Table on 08:45 - Oct 27 with 1196 views | saintsfanbrock |
| 1st In the Table on 22:14 - Oct 26 by SaintNick |
If you were a neutral observer reading this thread you would be thinking "Christ they are 5th in the League are only 1 point from 3rd place what would they be like if they were 10th" |
Another neutral observer might read this and say “before the Leicester game this guy said that Leicester and Southampton are probably the two strongest squads in the league but now he is content with his team having almost half the points of the other strongest squad in the league and only two thirds of the points (with the other team having a game in hand) of a squad he thought was weaker” | | | |
| 1st In the Table on 08:59 - Oct 27 with 1179 views | Butty101 |
| 1st In the Table on 00:56 - Oct 27 by TimSaint |
You need to recalculate Nick.
Even if we hadn't conceded a single goal this season, the fact that we failed to score against Sunderland and Ipswich, means we could only have taken 1 point from each of those games, so we would still be a point behind Leicester.
The fact that we have had just 1 clean sheet this season and have conceded the joint most goals in the division, suggests there is much more to it than individual errors being punished, but we all know that anyway. |
Yes but that dosent support the club mantra that Nick has to spout. |  |
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| 1st In the Table on 09:18 - Oct 27 with 1162 views | kingslandstand1 |
| 1st In the Table on 16:49 - Oct 26 by saints__fan__73 |
Aren't your two statements contradictory?
If the players we have aren't good enough to play this way (and they won't be, we are in the 2nd tier...) then we shouldn't be asking them to play this way. |
I'm agreeing with you. What I'm saying (well trying to say) is that RM (or whoever) is asking players to do what they are not capable of doing adequately. Possession football is fine for a top Prem team, but not an average (some would say, although 5th in that league) Championship team such as us | | | |
| 1st In the Table on 09:25 - Oct 27 with 1159 views | SonicBoom |
We are indeed 5th but it's bloody painful to watch.
I agree with the other comments that yes we make individual errors, but any error is individual isn't it? But it's a result of something else going wrong. We only really seem happy when passing around aimlessly in the central 3rd. And at any sign of trouble we turn and pass back as quickly as we can. Witness the farcical second half kick off - that was just embarrassing.
Also 5th sounds good but firstly we surely have to be looking at the top of the league not the bottom. There are not many decent sides so where we are is the bare minimum I'd expect. In fact the rest must be terrible because we don't look like a team that should be 5th.
Watching the game the other night someone commented that whilst we are playing this system, we don't look like we believe in it. The players look very rigid and we are one bad pass away from complete panic stations at any moment and I think that's true. |  | | |
| 1st In the Table on 09:43 - Oct 27 with 1150 views | PatfromPoole |
| 1st In the Table on 09:25 - Oct 27 by SonicBoom |
We are indeed 5th but it's bloody painful to watch.
I agree with the other comments that yes we make individual errors, but any error is individual isn't it? But it's a result of something else going wrong. We only really seem happy when passing around aimlessly in the central 3rd. And at any sign of trouble we turn and pass back as quickly as we can. Witness the farcical second half kick off - that was just embarrassing.
Also 5th sounds good but firstly we surely have to be looking at the top of the league not the bottom. There are not many decent sides so where we are is the bare minimum I'd expect. In fact the rest must be terrible because we don't look like a team that should be 5th.
Watching the game the other night someone commented that whilst we are playing this system, we don't look like we believe in it. The players look very rigid and we are one bad pass away from complete panic stations at any moment and I think that's true. |
Trust the Process.
It will take years to get this right (***), but when it is right, it will be beautiful.
*** it only appeared to take Leicester about 6 weeks….. | |
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| 1st In the Table on 10:11 - Oct 27 with 1133 views | SaintNick |
| 1st In the Table on 09:25 - Oct 27 by SonicBoom |
We are indeed 5th but it's bloody painful to watch.
I agree with the other comments that yes we make individual errors, but any error is individual isn't it? But it's a result of something else going wrong. We only really seem happy when passing around aimlessly in the central 3rd. And at any sign of trouble we turn and pass back as quickly as we can. Witness the farcical second half kick off - that was just embarrassing.
Also 5th sounds good but firstly we surely have to be looking at the top of the league not the bottom. There are not many decent sides so where we are is the bare minimum I'd expect. In fact the rest must be terrible because we don't look like a team that should be 5th.
Watching the game the other night someone commented that whilst we are playing this system, we don't look like we believe in it. The players look very rigid and we are one bad pass away from complete panic stations at any moment and I think that's true. |
Personally I dont find it painful to watch, we are scoring goals and it wasn't possession football that cost us the two goals at Preston.
Like it or not this way of playing is being adopted by a lot of teams, Leicester for example and even teams such as Hull, yes the bit at the start of the second half was a bit comical, but it wasn't possession football that caused it, most teams pass back to their back line from a kick off.
I agree with you where we are is a bare minimum and we have achieved that, we now have to look upwards, but too many are quick to criticise and are looking backwards all the time, how do they expect the players themselves to look upwards if a section of the crowd is always going to be on their backs no matter what they do.
I am not defending anyone or anything here, I am merely saying lets just give it a chance, doom and gloom was predicted before the season had even started yet here we are in 5th position and over the last 5 games we are in an upwards position.
Possession football, individual players mean nothing, all that counts is points on the board, if we stay unbeaten and keep winning then we will stay in the promotion hunt and the confidence will increase, we will play possession football well and we will keep putting points on the table and that is all that matters | |
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| 1st In the Table on 09:27 - Oct 28 with 937 views | Berber |
| 1st In the Table on 16:34 - Oct 26 by PatfromPoole |
I also think that some of the "individual errors" are more a function of us being required to play in a certain way, by taking chances when in possession in our own defensive third of the pitch.
Call it an individual error if you like, but players are clearly being told to play in a certain way which is going to bring associated risks.
Presumably "individual errors" just also happened to be rife at Swansea and MK Dons..... |
My thinking exactly. In answer to the original post and article, Every team in every league in the world could be top of the table if they didn’t let in so many goals. That is like saying sh1t happens. That is true too, but the things start to get unpleasant when you are sh1tting on your own doorstep, which is what is happening by giving the ball away in our own half, by our defenders, because there are not enough options to pass, they dwell on the ball too long and allow the opponents to set themselves.
Simply passing the ball to keep possession is not much of a tactic. “We do what we do” is fine if it yields superior results, but unless that is true, then the coaching team are just indulging themselves and conning the rest of us. |  | | |
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