| Potential ban for Tonda? 10:06 - May 17 with 4984 views | PatfromPoole |
This is an interesting slant.
Not sure how we would all feel about this.
I mean, he’ll always be a hero in my (hungry) eyes…
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:14 - May 17 with 4086 views | DorsetIan |
I guess we find out who knew what, who instructed whom, and then we can take a view.
But we’ll find out all this at the same time as the actual punishment so we consider then if we think the punishment is fair.
Tonda suspended but the Club still allowed to progress to the final would be bitter sweet. |  |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:15 - May 17 with 4080 views | 1teeminants |
Tbh mate I’m sick and tired of hearing about all this and I just want to get it all out of the way. You would think someone had been murdered the amount of rubbish there is flying about from Boro fans. |  |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:28 - May 17 with 4029 views | Tonyfromdk |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:15 - May 17 by 1teeminants |
Tbh mate I’m sick and tired of hearing about all this and I just want to get it all out of the way. You would think someone had been murdered the amount of rubbish there is flying about from Boro fans. |
Totally agree, its been overkill in the highest order
As usual only the fans suffer |  | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:47 - May 17 with 3953 views | saintmark1976 |
Who pray is Martyn Ziegler ?
I’ve never heard of him. | |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:26 - May 17 with 3838 views | Ifonly |
This has been a possibility since day one because of the Canadian coach that was banned for a year for spying. Some say it's more likely than expulsion because there's a precedent for it. But nothing has changed and it's all just speculation.
It remains a possibility that Saints go with the lone wolf defence, but if multiple people were involved then TE could be in trouble. The Canadian coach was banned for a year even though there was no evidence she was directly involved. FIFA just said she must have known.
One thing I hang on to is that when he's been asked about the spying, it seemed to me that TE was itching to say something and at one point he said something like he would be able to speak when the investigation is over, saying it in a way that suggested he really wanted to have his say (for someone who always seems so calm on the surface). Maybe what he wants to say is "nothing to do with me". He's obviously been banned from speaking by the club. | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:36 - May 17 with 3816 views | PatfromPoole |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:47 - May 17 by saintmark1976 |
Who pray is Martyn Ziegler ?
I’ve never heard of him. |
Times journo.
Usually a fairly credible type. | |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:50 - May 17 with 3744 views | dirk_doone |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:15 - May 17 by 1teeminants |
Tbh mate I’m sick and tired of hearing about all this and I just want to get it all out of the way. You would think someone had been murdered the amount of rubbish there is flying about from Boro fans. |
A lot of it emanates from Steve Gibson OBE, his influential friends in government, the EFL and the media, and his massive team of legal experts, private investigators and PR men. I don't think there has been such a relentless campaign by one club against another, demanding such excessive punishments, since Steve Gibson did the same to Derby. He is also a big Labour donor and seen as the 'kingmaker' in Northeastern politics and so politicians do his bidding.
Remember there is a Middlesbrough man on the board of the EFL, who is employed by Steve Gibson, and it's the EFL that wants to punish us, so Gibson will have a very big influence.
Neil Bausor - Championship - Middlesbrough
Neil Bausor has been with Championship side Middlesbrough since 2007, when he first joined the Club as Chief Operating Officer. He later received a permanent promotion to Chief Executive after taking on the role on an interim basis for nine months.
Bausor was appointed on to the EFL Board in July 2021 alongside Preston’s Peter Ridsdale ahead of the 2021/22 campaign when a number of vacancies arose for representatives.
https://www.efl.com/about-the-
I see the latest national media outlet he's got campaigning against us on his behalf is The Guardian. He will be in direct contact with them. [Post edited 17 May 12:03]
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:56 - May 17 with 3710 views | Southamptonfan |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:26 - May 17 by Ifonly |
This has been a possibility since day one because of the Canadian coach that was banned for a year for spying. Some say it's more likely than expulsion because there's a precedent for it. But nothing has changed and it's all just speculation.
It remains a possibility that Saints go with the lone wolf defence, but if multiple people were involved then TE could be in trouble. The Canadian coach was banned for a year even though there was no evidence she was directly involved. FIFA just said she must have known.
One thing I hang on to is that when he's been asked about the spying, it seemed to me that TE was itching to say something and at one point he said something like he would be able to speak when the investigation is over, saying it in a way that suggested he really wanted to have his say (for someone who always seems so calm on the surface). Maybe what he wants to say is "nothing to do with me". He's obviously been banned from speaking by the club. |
Surely, they could go down the route of saying Spors authorised it, and therefore he is suspended for a year, we take a fine, Spors is punished, (disappears for a year), we say Tonda knew nothing about it, even if he did. How can any of this be proved otherwise? The problem with giving Tonda a ban, sacking him.etc is that they have had just a week to prove this. With appeals, this could rumble on forever. I'm pretty sure Saints won't want to lose Tonda and will be finding ways for the best defence possible that least damages the club. I am pretty sure that with the legal challenges to follow, they really can't chuck us out because you can't undo that. If they got that wrong, we would be owed hundreds of millions with possible legal challenges. They will know this. Fines and points deductions can be changed or reversed. Chuck us out, and that can never be reversed. Legal challenges in the future would put the EFL in a very difficult position. Evidence might later come out that he went as a lone wolf but then it would too late. Surely we can't be chucked out with just a week of investigations. [Post edited 17 May 12:05]
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:07 - May 17 with 3661 views | PatfromPoole |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:50 - May 17 by dirk_doone |
A lot of it emanates from Steve Gibson OBE, his influential friends in government, the EFL and the media, and his massive team of legal experts, private investigators and PR men. I don't think there has been such a relentless campaign by one club against another, demanding such excessive punishments, since Steve Gibson did the same to Derby. He is also a big Labour donor and seen as the 'kingmaker' in Northeastern politics and so politicians do his bidding.
Remember there is a Middlesbrough man on the board of the EFL, who is employed by Steve Gibson, and it's the EFL that wants to punish us, so Gibson will have a very big influence.
Neil Bausor - Championship - Middlesbrough
Neil Bausor has been with Championship side Middlesbrough since 2007, when he first joined the Club as Chief Operating Officer. He later received a permanent promotion to Chief Executive after taking on the role on an interim basis for nine months.
Bausor was appointed on to the EFL Board in July 2021 alongside Preston’s Peter Ridsdale ahead of the 2021/22 campaign when a number of vacancies arose for representatives.
https://www.efl.com/about-the-
I see the latest national media outlet he's got campaigning against us on his behalf is The Guardian. He will be in direct contact with them. [Post edited 17 May 12:03]
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It’s supposedly an independent commission adjudicating though.
It had best not include Stuart Ripley, I guess…. | |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:09 - May 17 with 3649 views | dirk_doone |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:07 - May 17 by PatfromPoole |
It’s supposedly an independent commission adjudicating though.
It had best not include Stuart Ripley, I guess…. |
It's The EFL board (including Middlesbrough's chief executive officer) vs SFC.
The independent board members will be subjected to the media campaign against us, especially over the weekend, unless they are locked away in a cell somewhere, cut off from the outside world, which I very much doubt. They'll be at home, reading the papers and whatever's online. They'll also hear what Middlesbrough's chief executive officer and Steve Gibson's employee, Neil Bausor, wants them to hear. Who do you think instructed Bausor to join the EFL board? He will surely be on good terms with his colleagues on the EFL board, who probably have no personal contacts at SFC. [Post edited 17 May 12:25]
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:16 - May 17 with 3617 views | saint22 |
As much as it galls me to say it and would cast a huge cloud over all we have achieved this season IF he was behind this and instructed it to go ahead then that was mightily stupid and taints his ability as a manager
That said it’s all hypothetical until Tuesday and I still think there is something very wrong going on here but we shall see | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:23 - May 17 with 3583 views | Ifonly |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 11:56 - May 17 by Southamptonfan |
Surely, they could go down the route of saying Spors authorised it, and therefore he is suspended for a year, we take a fine, Spors is punished, (disappears for a year), we say Tonda knew nothing about it, even if he did. How can any of this be proved otherwise? The problem with giving Tonda a ban, sacking him.etc is that they have had just a week to prove this. With appeals, this could rumble on forever. I'm pretty sure Saints won't want to lose Tonda and will be finding ways for the best defence possible that least damages the club. I am pretty sure that with the legal challenges to follow, they really can't chuck us out because you can't undo that. If they got that wrong, we would be owed hundreds of millions with possible legal challenges. They will know this. Fines and points deductions can be changed or reversed. Chuck us out, and that can never be reversed. Legal challenges in the future would put the EFL in a very difficult position. Evidence might later come out that he went as a lone wolf but then it would too late. Surely we can't be chucked out with just a week of investigations. [Post edited 17 May 12:05]
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A potential ban for Tonda is a different thing to the club's sanctions. If the EFL sanction us with a fine and a points deduction for a future year, then we go ahead and play at Wembley with TE in charge. But TE could still face a possible ban. That would be decided on later and maybe start in the summer.
As I mentioned above, there was no evidence to directly link the Canada coach with the spying but she still got banned because they said she must have known. I can see the same argument applying to TE if this is not a lone wolf. I hope not but I can see it happening.
As for our legal challenges, I'm not sure there's much we can do. It's reported that we have agreed that any challenge will be made within 48 hours of the verdict and there are only 2 levels that we can go to challenge it, both of which could be over quickly. We have no right to take this to CAS. Beyond that, we could choose to challenge this in a UK court but we'd have to have a legal basis for doing that. If the EFL have done everything by their rules - and if their rules are legal - then there is nothing we can do.
I still think the most likely outcome is we play next week (touch wood) after some heavy sanctions. What happens to various individuals depends on what the facts are. | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:30 - May 17 with 3560 views | Southamptonfan |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:23 - May 17 by Ifonly |
A potential ban for Tonda is a different thing to the club's sanctions. If the EFL sanction us with a fine and a points deduction for a future year, then we go ahead and play at Wembley with TE in charge. But TE could still face a possible ban. That would be decided on later and maybe start in the summer.
As I mentioned above, there was no evidence to directly link the Canada coach with the spying but she still got banned because they said she must have known. I can see the same argument applying to TE if this is not a lone wolf. I hope not but I can see it happening.
As for our legal challenges, I'm not sure there's much we can do. It's reported that we have agreed that any challenge will be made within 48 hours of the verdict and there are only 2 levels that we can go to challenge it, both of which could be over quickly. We have no right to take this to CAS. Beyond that, we could choose to challenge this in a UK court but we'd have to have a legal basis for doing that. If the EFL have done everything by their rules - and if their rules are legal - then there is nothing we can do.
I still think the most likely outcome is we play next week (touch wood) after some heavy sanctions. What happens to various individuals depends on what the facts are. |
But let's say Tonda didn't know. Very unlikely ofcourse he knew, but how can it be proved? Tonda could say he didn't know. How can it be proved otherwise beyond all reasonable doubt? Only CCTV footage or voice recordings could prove it. If there are none, Tonda could say he knew nothing about it and challenge any legal decision saying he knew. | |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:42 - May 17 with 3530 views | Ifonly |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:30 - May 17 by Southamptonfan |
But let's say Tonda didn't know. Very unlikely ofcourse he knew, but how can it be proved? Tonda could say he didn't know. How can it be proved otherwise beyond all reasonable doubt? Only CCTV footage or voice recordings could prove it. If there are none, Tonda could say he knew nothing about it and challenge any legal decision saying he knew. |
I doubt it has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. That only applies in a court. This won't be done in a court of law so the rules probably say that they make decisions "on the balance of probability". That would be normal - and legal.
Tonda would be able to challenge this (maybe CAS in his case) but that whole process would take some time, so a lot of the damage would be done anyway because he would be suspended in the interim. | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:45 - May 17 with 3503 views | StAnt |
It's a quiet news day for the journos. Nothing new coming out of spygate so they have to invent something for clickbait. Today the Times journo has decided to fill his column with a story stating the bleeding obvious - in other words 'Tonda Eckert could face a ban'
Getaway! Tell us something we didn't know.
Lazy journalism. | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:52 - May 17 with 3469 views | Southamptonfan |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:42 - May 17 by Ifonly |
I doubt it has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. That only applies in a court. This won't be done in a court of law so the rules probably say that they make decisions "on the balance of probability". That would be normal - and legal.
Tonda would be able to challenge this (maybe CAS in his case) but that whole process would take some time, so a lot of the damage would be done anyway because he would be suspended in the interim. |
A ban for Tonda could happen but being thrown out is surely not a realistic option. The process of appeals could take weeks or months. New evidence could arise after Boro beat Hull ar Wembley and then it would be too late. It's like being killed on death row and new evidence shows later that they were innocent. What a mess that would be. Sending another team up without getting there by winning a game on the pitch could result in legal challenges everywhere. Millwall might say that they finished 3rd and they should play Boro in a playoff etc. Us spying shouldn't mean that Boro get an automatic place in the PL. That could be contested everywhere. The appeals could go.on and on and then no.play off final. To me, it's logical that throwing us out just can't happen. Fines and points deductions can be reversed. They should just get on with the only thing that they can do.. [Post edited 17 May 12:59]
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:05 - May 17 with 3406 views | saint22 |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:09 - May 17 by dirk_doone |
It's The EFL board (including Middlesbrough's chief executive officer) vs SFC.
The independent board members will be subjected to the media campaign against us, especially over the weekend, unless they are locked away in a cell somewhere, cut off from the outside world, which I very much doubt. They'll be at home, reading the papers and whatever's online. They'll also hear what Middlesbrough's chief executive officer and Steve Gibson's employee, Neil Bausor, wants them to hear. Who do you think instructed Bausor to join the EFL board? He will surely be on good terms with his colleagues on the EFL board, who probably have no personal contacts at SFC. [Post edited 17 May 12:25]
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How can it be independent if their CEO is participating | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:17 - May 17 with 3388 views | Ifonly |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:52 - May 17 by Southamptonfan |
A ban for Tonda could happen but being thrown out is surely not a realistic option. The process of appeals could take weeks or months. New evidence could arise after Boro beat Hull ar Wembley and then it would be too late. It's like being killed on death row and new evidence shows later that they were innocent. What a mess that would be. Sending another team up without getting there by winning a game on the pitch could result in legal challenges everywhere. Millwall might say that they finished 3rd and they should play Boro in a playoff etc. Us spying shouldn't mean that Boro get an automatic place in the PL. That could be contested everywhere. The appeals could go.on and on and then no.play off final. To me, it's logical that throwing us out just can't happen. Fines and points deductions can be reversed. They should just get on with the only thing that they can do.. [Post edited 17 May 12:59]
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As mentioned, it's reported that we've agreed to shorten the appeals window to 48 hours (just as we agreed to shorten the 2 weeks minimum we had until a hearing takes place). If true, the whole appeals process could be over by Friday, maybe sooner. That wouldn't allow a final to be played between Hull and Boro next weekend, but it would allow Hull to be given a bye. That would still be very messy, but it could happen.
That might be the outcome because this EFL process is nothing to do with Boro. Logically, they are out of the competition, it's now between Hull and us if we're allowed to continue. In that case, Boro's redress might be to sue us for damages.
No one knows what the EFL will decide, but to me it's a possibility that we're chucked out. Remember, it's only because of that possibility that there was any need to speed up this investigation, hearing and appeals process - and they've gone to great lengths to speed it all up! Without that possibility, the game would go ahead anyway so they could have taken their time in coming to a decision.
I don't think we'll be thrown out but it could happen. | | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:26 - May 17 with 3360 views | dirk_doone |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:05 - May 17 by saint22 |
How can it be independent if their CEO is participating |
When is anybody shut off completely from outside influences? Sometimes, they do it with juries in high profile cases, but I doubt they'd do it with a football inquiry.
Boro's Chief Executive Officer is on the EFL governing board, which is the prosecution in this case, but the independent commission is the jury and, hopefully, the judge when it comes to the actual sentence, but the EFL board may well be consulted.
Have the people involved seen what's in the media? It's very likely.
I'll be very impressed by the 'independence" of this inquiry, if the punishment is a reasonable one. [Post edited 17 May 13:36]
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:37 - May 17 with 3323 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 12:45 - May 17 by StAnt |
It's a quiet news day for the journos. Nothing new coming out of spygate so they have to invent something for clickbait. Today the Times journo has decided to fill his column with a story stating the bleeding obvious - in other words 'Tonda Eckert could face a ban'
Getaway! Tell us something we didn't know.
Lazy journalism. |
But on the Boro front, I saw one worry for them as a headline, that one of their players (a star apparently), probably won't be fit for the final should they be playing in it
Steve Gibson, I fkng hate him
Surely there must be some rules about him threatening legal action if he doesn't get his way and all the other sh1t he's putting in the press |  |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:42 - May 17 with 3313 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:26 - May 17 by dirk_doone |
When is anybody shut off completely from outside influences? Sometimes, they do it with juries in high profile cases, but I doubt they'd do it with a football inquiry.
Boro's Chief Executive Officer is on the EFL governing board, which is the prosecution in this case, but the independent commission is the jury and, hopefully, the judge when it comes to the actual sentence, but the EFL board may well be consulted.
Have the people involved seen what's in the media? It's very likely.
I'll be very impressed by the 'independence" of this inquiry, if the punishment is a reasonable one. [Post edited 17 May 13:36]
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Surely as we are the accused we can object to this Boro guy as he does have a vested interest in the case. As I believe, an accused can object to a jury member (with justification of course) | |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 13:59 - May 17 with 3273 views | chasaint80 |
So if everything we read in the media is to be believed we are going to be thrown out of the playoff final, effectively costing us £200 million, plus a huge fine, plus a points deduction next season and have our manager banned for a year. It would make it the worst punishment in football history for what is the most miner enfraction which would have had very little to no benefit to us.
I Cannot wait till this bullshite is over, it's pathetic. |  | | |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:12 - May 18 with 2859 views | Bridders2 |
If Tonda was to be banned say for 6 months, what would that look like?
Does that mean he has to have nothing to do with football and sit at home, or does it mean he can't attend matches, but is fine for everything else? | |
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| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:59 - May 18 with 2805 views | Ifonly |
| Potential ban for Tonda? on 10:12 - May 18 by Bridders2 |
If Tonda was to be banned say for 6 months, what would that look like?
Does that mean he has to have nothing to do with football and sit at home, or does it mean he can't attend matches, but is fine for everything else? |
All we know is the Canada case. In that case 3 coaches were banned for 1 year, including the head coach, even though there was no evidence against the head coach. The ban, by FIFA, was from all football worldwide and their appeal was thrown out. The head coach returned to a job at a new club when her ban was over.
Seems extraordinarily harsh to me but there you go. All we can do is hope this doesn't happen to Tonda and that both he and the club have some decent evidence in their defence. | | | |
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