| Match thread: Fleetwood, away 13:56 - Aug 18 with 24558 views | 442Dale |
From the Fleetwood bar team was announced and it sounded like Ntlhe and Rathbone have retained their places. Done and MJW on the bench. |  |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 00:11 - Aug 19 with 2731 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 00:10 - Aug 19 by rochdale_ranger |
Not at all I think Dale23years is out of order. Some of my posts are borderline from time to time but I don’t really get personal as I don’t know who any of you lot are so I’m not in a position to. |
Fair comment. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 08:33 - Aug 19 with 2486 views | DaleAddict |
Safe to say we got away with one yesterday, but I'd have taken a point before the game and you can't beat a last minute equaliser (I almost typed 'winner' because that's how it felt). It was especially nice to do it against a side that became cynical and nasty once they had taken the lead for the second time. Fleetwood looked well capable of playing good football and if they had stuck to that rather than time-wasting we would have been comfortably beaten, so serves them right. Yes, it is all part of the game, but that doesn't mean that the paying fan has to like it, so it's nice when it is punished in the best possible way.
Hill will forever be in positive equity at Rochdale Football Club, but at times within matches he doesn't half put that to the test! The most bizarre decision yesterday was moving Rathbone to right wing back. He and Henderson had just combined for our best piece of play of the half to set up the penalty incident and to get us back in the game, and then, before Fleetwood had even restarted play, Rathbone was moved out of a position where he had been one of our better players and had just, in effect, set up the equaliser. It seemed we got a result yesterday despite Hill's changes and not because of them. It will be interesting to see if he sticks with this system despite, so far, clearly being unable to find the right sized pegs to fit the holes.
Getting a draw yesterday could be hugely important. We've got two games against unbeaten sides coming up and there aren't too many positives to take from the last two games other than a last minute equaliser which is huge for moral and confidence. Always nice to keep the scoreboard ticking over no matter how it happens. The biggest worry at the moment is that we seem to find it very easy to concede goals even when we're not under all that much pressure, while we have to work very hard at the other end to create very little. It's much easier to solve problems at one end of the pitch than it is to solve problems at both. Still plenty of time to solve the issues, but they do need solving. Over to you, Keith! |  |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 08:52 - Aug 19 with 2439 views | aleanddale |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 23:18 - Aug 18 by jonahwhereru |
First timer poster.
Let’s face it Keith has always and will always fancy himself as an alchemist. His ego means he will always be tempted to try and turn base metal players into gold. Ocassionally it works, Done turned into a striker being an example.
I sometimes think without the continual tinkering he would find management mundane.
Steve Claridge said he loved playing for Martin O'Neill because he bought players in with a specific role in mind and told them to go out and do what you are good at. Would like Keith to reign in the experimentation al little (he will never resist it completely) and let the players settle into roles in which they feel comfortable and can flourish in.
There’s gold in them there Hills Keith but does finding the secret formula need be be so complicated? |
welcome to the board.
2-2 away and 4 points on the board.
5 consecutive seasons in a league probably one higher than our natural punching weight.
Dale 23 years should find another team. Odd as he will have seen ALL the good times with Keith and would cut him some slack only 3 games into a long 46 game season.
Up the Dale. Another tough game Tuesday against the title second favourites. | | | |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 09:07 - Aug 19 with 2408 views | Daley_Lama |
Barnsley yet to concede.
Let’s av ‘em. |  |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 09:12 - Aug 19 with 2405 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 23:50 - Aug 18 by Shun |
Excellent point in your first paragraph. It could well be Hill’s good track record of converting players into different positions that makes him think he can do it with anyone. These experiments of his have more often than not worked in the past but lately not so much. We all know he’s a proud man, maybe that pride spurs him on to keep making what we see as baffling decisions and won’t allow him to stop them when they clearly aren’t working.
I also agree that I can see him becoming bored if he doesn’t perform these experiments. |
The trouble is Shun, whilst I suspect you and Jonah have a point, if he is as excited as he says about this squad and it's potential, then auditioning for the role of Tinkerman II the movie will hold us back and prevent us reaching that potential. KH has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know as the saying goes, but I don't think it was just the fans who we're baffled yesterday. He said we seemed to be meandering second half. I'm not surprised by this. I think virtually everyone had lost the plot by then. Still, a late equaliser/point and another game Tuesday. Really hope MJW starts then. Would like Cannon to start as well. We need energy coupled with composure. |  |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 09:39 - Aug 19 with 2355 views | Dale27 |
I find it very frustrating that lessons have not been learnt from last season, it’s like groundhog day. Players are being continuously played out of position, and (like last season) our best player is sat twiddling his thumbs on the bench.
Our midfield should be built around Cannon and Williams. | | | |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:03 - Aug 19 with 2281 views | fitzochris |
Yes, there are those quoting the headlines as positives - away draw, last-minute equaliser etc - and there are those who saw the game itself, who appreciate the nuances that led up to these events and how it was far from straightforward. |  |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:05 - Aug 19 with 2279 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 21:18 - Aug 18 by DaleiLama |
I confess I have wondered about the back 5/WBs.
D_Alien posted a good argument for the other day, but have we got the right players for it?
Kgosi seems to be being groomed at LB (?) and Raff seems to be getting subbed a bit recently. And an open question (not having seen all games but harking back to memories from last season) - how good have their final balls into the box been? By playing them forward, is this contributing to the "individual mistakes" at the back? All things which I hope are being pondered.
Not saying 5-3-2 doesn't work, but we seemed to by-pass midfield a lot last year. This was an area of strength in the past. I wouldn't say we won the midfield battle today either.
Also wondering about MJW on the bench. Was very much hoping to see him again today. In a side short of players who can play a killer ball, he may have made a difference?
More questions than answers at the moment. [Post edited 18 Aug 2018 21:20]
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Yes many questions and 4 points from 3 games is definitely no crisis. I've only seen 1 live game this season but agree with DL, key in recent past has been quality of crossing from wing backs. Whatever his frailities defensively, Bunney's pacy crosses were particularly effective, don't think that's Rafferty's strength and Kgosi is yet to have enough game time to know. Cannon in his early games played RB - could he be more effective going forward than Raff? MJ offers good passing from deep but he does he add to the side's energy or mf 'strength'. | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:11 - Aug 19 with 2260 views | DaleiLama |
IBM has patented a "drone delivery of coffee based on the cognitive state of the individual". It envisages delivering coffee in a "large office environment based on assessment of workers' electronic calenders, their movements as recorded by their mobile phone readings such as blood pressure from wearables, and from camera footage".
Goes on to say technology could be used in coffee shops with customers ordering with hand gestures and paying through an App. Had that technology been available and legal yesterday and sensed the crowds mood, Fleetwood would have done very well for beer sales in the away end! | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:25 - Aug 19 with 2218 views | D_Alien |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:11 - Aug 19 by DaleiLama |
IBM has patented a "drone delivery of coffee based on the cognitive state of the individual". It envisages delivering coffee in a "large office environment based on assessment of workers' electronic calenders, their movements as recorded by their mobile phone readings such as blood pressure from wearables, and from camera footage".
Goes on to say technology could be used in coffee shops with customers ordering with hand gestures and paying through an App. Had that technology been available and legal yesterday and sensed the crowds mood, Fleetwood would have done very well for beer sales in the away end! |
To paraphrase James' take on Sandy anger, what's the hand gesture sequence for "gimme a beer, I'm watching a bunch of t*ssers" ? |  |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:26 - Aug 19 with 2206 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 09:39 - Aug 19 by Dale27 |
I find it very frustrating that lessons have not been learnt from last season, it’s like groundhog day. Players are being continuously played out of position, and (like last season) our best player is sat twiddling his thumbs on the bench.
Our midfield should be built around Cannon and Williams. |
Although he isn't perfect, I would argue our best player scored two goals yesterday. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:59 - Aug 19 with 2109 views | 442Dale |
Having watched the goals again, Henderson was definitely offside for the second goal, we got a bit lucky there but it’s a brilliant finish. | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 11:23 - Aug 19 with 2052 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:25 - Aug 19 by D_Alien |
To paraphrase James' take on Sandy anger, what's the hand gesture sequence for "gimme a beer, I'm watching a bunch of t*ssers" ? |
Think most of James's new acquaintances were behind me so I was spared those, but there were some choice comments from one bloke in particular. I think for some, tilting at windmills is more important than the outcome. To each his own. | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:01 - Aug 19 with 1966 views | SaxonDale |
Interesting post match comments from Hilly. Says he had to play Rathbone at RB as other players weren't doing what had been asked. Says that in every game except Burton he feels only 7/8 have turned up on the pitch. Insists he will get it right even if ''fan's favourites have to leave the club." Wonder if that's a message to Cannon? |  | | |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:11 - Aug 19 with 1940 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:01 - Aug 19 by SaxonDale |
Interesting post match comments from Hilly. Says he had to play Rathbone at RB as other players weren't doing what had been asked. Says that in every game except Burton he feels only 7/8 have turned up on the pitch. Insists he will get it right even if ''fan's favourites have to leave the club." Wonder if that's a message to Cannon? |
Not too sure about that, as Cannon's only start so far was at Grimsby where he did plenty and more, and he only played the last 24 minutes v Peterborough.
Unless he means in training?
Interesting though. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:21 - Aug 19 with 1916 views | D_Alien |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:11 - Aug 19 by TVOS1907 |
Not too sure about that, as Cannon's only start so far was at Grimsby where he did plenty and more, and he only played the last 24 minutes v Peterborough.
Unless he means in training?
Interesting though. |
His "on the pitch" comment suggests he's not talking about training
More likely to be Rafferty, from the way he's being subbed early, but still no excuse for not introducing Cannon as a direct replacement | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:24 - Aug 19 with 1904 views | SaxonDale |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:11 - Aug 19 by TVOS1907 |
Not too sure about that, as Cannon's only start so far was at Grimsby where he did plenty and more, and he only played the last 24 minutes v Peterborough.
Unless he means in training?
Interesting though. |
Good point- was just struggling to think of many other 'fans favourites'! | | | |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 12:25 - Aug 19 with 1904 views | JimmyRustler |
There's no problem experimenting when there's some discernible logic behind the decision. However, moving Rathbone to RB after scoring two goals at Grimsby and looking like one of our most potent goal threats, you have to wonder what the f@ck is going through Keith's head at times.
The real big positive from yesterday was Nthle's inclusion and performance as this hopefully means that we can utilise Done further forward. It's time to give Alby a rest and try Done and Hendo up front again on Tuesday for me. You know, that partnership that saw us absolutely bang goals in for fun. Remember that Keith? |  | | |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:11 - Aug 19 with 1756 views | 1907 |
I’ve never been a fan of 5 at the back, however I can see the benefits mainly away from home.
In my opinion it is a negative, defensive formation and is so far behind the old “No Fear” mantra we USED to live and breathe.
There is far too many players behind the ball and we lack creative outlets, all for the benefit of another CH?
For me, I’d rather see us go four at the back and take a risk & hopefully get back to the good old days of scoring 3/4 goals a game! | | | |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:23 - Aug 19 with 1731 views | Daley_Lama |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 10:59 - Aug 19 by 442Dale |
Having watched the goals again, Henderson was definitely offside for the second goal, we got a bit lucky there but it’s a brilliant finish. |
Not definitely offside for me on the Quest highlights.
No 20 who sticks his arm up looks level but very hard to tell from TV 45 degree camera angle. | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:25 - Aug 19 with 1726 views | D_Alien |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:11 - Aug 19 by 1907 |
I’ve never been a fan of 5 at the back, however I can see the benefits mainly away from home.
In my opinion it is a negative, defensive formation and is so far behind the old “No Fear” mantra we USED to live and breathe.
There is far too many players behind the ball and we lack creative outlets, all for the benefit of another CH?
For me, I’d rather see us go four at the back and take a risk & hopefully get back to the good old days of scoring 3/4 goals a game! |
But as I posted the other day, 532 offers plenty of opportunities for more outfield players to join in with attacking intent than other formations
They first have to be good enough to do so | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:41 - Aug 19 with 1674 views | 442Dale |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:23 - Aug 19 by Daley_Lama |
Not definitely offside for me on the Quest highlights.
No 20 who sticks his arm up looks level but very hard to tell from TV 45 degree camera angle. |
I believe it was spotted from the Dale support in the seats too. Lot going on so can see why the linesman missed it. | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:52 - Aug 19 with 1646 views | 442Dale |
| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 14:11 - Aug 19 by 1907 |
I’ve never been a fan of 5 at the back, however I can see the benefits mainly away from home.
In my opinion it is a negative, defensive formation and is so far behind the old “No Fear” mantra we USED to live and breathe.
There is far too many players behind the ball and we lack creative outlets, all for the benefit of another CH?
For me, I’d rather see us go four at the back and take a risk & hopefully get back to the good old days of scoring 3/4 goals a game! |
It all depends how it’s played, it’s shown to have been attacking at home as long as the wing-backs have a high enough starting position. There’s obviously something in Rafferty being subbed and subsequent comments so he’s under pressure to improve in a role where he’s done well in the past. Can see Cannon starting there on Tuesday. It’s unfortunate that Bunney’s form had dipped to the extent his sale to Northampton was seen as a good deal, because he’d be perfect for this formation; one he rarely played in when at left back.
One thing we do need to do is remember how to revert to a four during games both in terms of when to do it and which subs will enable us to do so smoothly. That didn’t happen yesterday.
The days of 4-4-2 are long gone, even if we do shift to four at the back it’ll mean a midfield three still with wide forwards either side. That could be an option when Dooley returns with him and Henderson wide of a central striker, for that to work best Wilbraham’s form has to pick up too. | |
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| Match thread: Fleetwood, away on 15:04 - Aug 19 with 1623 views | fitzochris |
Hill, in his post-match interview, said he is wedded to this system and it is the personnel that will change if they can’t play in it. Like it, love it or loathe it, it’s here to stay. | |
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