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Leicester ground expansion 14:33 - Nov 24 with 2526 viewsPatfromPoole

Quite interesting to see that Leicester (identical ground to us with different colour seats) are looking at a potential ground expansion which would take capacity to over 45,000....

https://www.givemesport.com/1621191-leicester-city-leaked-images-of-clubs-king-p

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Leicester ground expansion on 14:42 - Nov 24 with 2502 viewsdirk_doone

Cardiff did something similar with theirs. A second tier certainly helps improve the atmosphere.

Both Saints' and Leicester's stadiums have very gently sloping sides so noise tends to disappear into the air rather than cascade down onto the pitch. A second tier effectively produces a steeper side, which helps keep the noise in and make the home atmosphere more intimidating.

The steepest sided stadium I've ever been in is Boca Juniors' La Bomobonera, which has three tiers, and is so steep that when you lean forward you feel you are about to topple down onto the pitch. The atmosphere there is incredible.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 14:46]

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Leicester ground expansion on 14:52 - Nov 24 with 2470 viewsPatfromPoole

Leicester ground expansion on 14:42 - Nov 24 by dirk_doone

Cardiff did something similar with theirs. A second tier certainly helps improve the atmosphere.

Both Saints' and Leicester's stadiums have very gently sloping sides so noise tends to disappear into the air rather than cascade down onto the pitch. A second tier effectively produces a steeper side, which helps keep the noise in and make the home atmosphere more intimidating.

The steepest sided stadium I've ever been in is Boca Juniors' La Bomobonera, which has three tiers, and is so steep that when you lean forward you feel you are about to topple down onto the pitch. The atmosphere there is incredible.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 14:46]


There is a decent current thread on the fantastic FB site for “Lost Football Grounds and Terraces of Great Britain” about steepest stands.

Valencia’s Mestalla ground looks a bit 😳

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Leicester ground expansion on 15:05 - Nov 24 with 2448 viewsgrumpy

Impressive but the cost?
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Leicester ground expansion on 15:16 - Nov 24 with 2427 viewsBerber

Leicester ground expansion on 14:42 - Nov 24 by dirk_doone

Cardiff did something similar with theirs. A second tier certainly helps improve the atmosphere.

Both Saints' and Leicester's stadiums have very gently sloping sides so noise tends to disappear into the air rather than cascade down onto the pitch. A second tier effectively produces a steeper side, which helps keep the noise in and make the home atmosphere more intimidating.

The steepest sided stadium I've ever been in is Boca Juniors' La Bomobonera, which has three tiers, and is so steep that when you lean forward you feel you are about to topple down onto the pitch. The atmosphere there is incredible.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 14:46]


Twickenham has a fair pitch too.
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Leicester ground expansion on 15:20 - Nov 24 with 2421 viewsWints76

Leicester ground expansion on 14:52 - Nov 24 by PatfromPoole

There is a decent current thread on the fantastic FB site for “Lost Football Grounds and Terraces of Great Britain” about steepest stands.

Valencia’s Mestalla ground looks a bit 😳


I went to the Mestalla 10 years ago as wanted to go before they left for their new ground (which was half built then, but still hasn't happened). We were in the top tier behind the goal in about the 2nd row. My missus wouldn't stand up at all as she couldn't handle the gradient. Excellent football bar outside run by Mandolo el del Bombo, the Spain fan famous for his drum.

My bro on law went to watch Boca when he lived there teaching English. He said they sang a song that translated as 'He who doesn't jump is an English man' where they all jump around and the stand was trembling. He hated it and left before the end!
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Leicester ground expansion on 15:21 - Nov 24 with 2419 viewsChesham_Saint

Leicester ground expansion on 15:16 - Nov 24 by Berber

Twickenham has a fair pitch too.


Actually the top tier of the Royal Opera House is quite daunting as well...🧐
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 16:23]

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Leicester ground expansion on 16:19 - Nov 24 with 2369 viewsGennaro_Contaldo

Leicester ground expansion on 15:16 - Nov 24 by Berber

Twickenham has a fair pitch too.


It does - I've been in most parts of that ground and the top of the 3rd tier is pretty hairy if you don't like heights ... I don't. Still, the whisky and beer I was able to drink whilst in the stand helped ;)

The steepest ground I've been in was the Ajax Amsterdam Arena though, top of that was steep. I did a couple of matches there the season Saints played Feyenoord, was that 2001?

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Leicester ground expansion on 16:50 - Nov 24 with 2330 viewsSadoldgit

Could we fill 45,000 seats? Could Leicester?

I’m not good with heights. I usually get stuck up in the “Gods” in the O2. Hate it.
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Leicester ground expansion on 17:57 - Nov 24 with 2283 viewsdjsaint

Leicester ground expansion on 16:50 - Nov 24 by Sadoldgit

Could we fill 45,000 seats? Could Leicester?

I’m not good with heights. I usually get stuck up in the “Gods” in the O2. Hate it.


I understand the new capacity will be closer to 42k.

They wouldn't fill it regularly, for the big games they'd be close, will probably stick another 4k on their average gate though!
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Leicester ground expansion on 18:58 - Nov 24 with 2220 viewsTripleNiemi

Leicester ground expansion on 16:50 - Nov 24 by Sadoldgit

Could we fill 45,000 seats? Could Leicester?

I’m not good with heights. I usually get stuck up in the “Gods” in the O2. Hate it.


Leicester probably could on a good day due to a few thousand that have since adopted them following their league win.

We could possibly against the likes of United, City and Liverpool if we give them the extra 13,000 seats (in order to cover the plazzers and daytrippers). Against Palace, West Ham and the like....... no chance
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 19:00]

Ready and waiting to mop up those European places......

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Leicester ground expansion on 21:26 - Nov 24 with 2128 viewskingslandstand1

Leicester ground expansion on 14:42 - Nov 24 by dirk_doone

Cardiff did something similar with theirs. A second tier certainly helps improve the atmosphere.

Both Saints' and Leicester's stadiums have very gently sloping sides so noise tends to disappear into the air rather than cascade down onto the pitch. A second tier effectively produces a steeper side, which helps keep the noise in and make the home atmosphere more intimidating.

The steepest sided stadium I've ever been in is Boca Juniors' La Bomobonera, which has three tiers, and is so steep that when you lean forward you feel you are about to topple down onto the pitch. The atmosphere there is incredible.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 14:46]


The top tiers at the Bernabeu are pretty horrendous as well as when standing the back of the seat in front was just under "knee" height so hate to think what would happen if the was a slight surge (mind you, so are parts of the Albert Hall!)
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Leicester ground expansion on 12:43 - Nov 25 with 1946 viewsfranniesTache

Leicester ground expansion on 17:57 - Nov 24 by djsaint

I understand the new capacity will be closer to 42k.

They wouldn't fill it regularly, for the big games they'd be close, will probably stick another 4k on their average gate though!


Leicester have about an extra 200k people in their urban area compared to us, plus they look like their in a position to get european football pretty regularly, i don't think they'll have much of a problem selling those extras for a lot of games to be honest.
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Leicester ground expansion on 14:38 - Nov 25 with 1879 viewsericofarabia

Looks like the Skatesmuff Pottydrome 🤮
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Leicester ground expansion on 16:28 - Nov 25 with 1846 viewsSaintsforeverj

32000 for Saints is about right, maybe 35 000 would have been perfect to mop up those extra fans for big games and when we are doing well. I think that we would probably only get close to 40 000 for the big games and this would have to be topped up with extra away fans. When you look at Leicester's attendances against Burnley, Palace, Watford etc, they still get 32 000. We get about 28 000 for those games and struggle to sell block 46 when there are less away fans. Leicester is always full I think.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2020 18:18]

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Leicester ground expansion on 17:39 - Nov 25 with 1807 viewsChesham_Saint

Leicester ground expansion on 16:28 - Nov 25 by Saintsforeverj

32000 for Saints is about right, maybe 35 000 would have been perfect to mop up those extra fans for big games and when we are doing well. I think that we would probably only get close to 40 000 for the big games and this would have to be topped up with extra away fans. When you look at Leicester's attendances against Burnley, Palace, Watford etc, they still get 32 000. We get about 28 000 for those games and struggle to sell block 46 when there are less away fans. Leicester is always full I think.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2020 18:18]


On the other hand, they have actually won something recently so they are still riding a wave of goodwill and self belief.

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Leicester ground expansion on 18:12 - Nov 25 with 1791 viewsSonicBoom

They have won things and got money in from the champions league so good luck to them.
Steepest ground I've been to was PSV Eindhoven. 4 steep sides and closed in corners makes it feel like the crowd and almost on top of the pitch.
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Leicester ground expansion on 23:23 - Nov 25 with 1698 viewsGennaro_Contaldo

Saints will do well to sell week in week out, even in the best of seasons. Like it or not, Southampton (and area) is just not a "football" area in the same way other towns/cities are.

If Saints won the league, or got regular champions league qualification, then all the knob head businesses would suddenly be buying season tickets for guests and loads of plastic kids would turn out who'd otherwise have "supported" Chelsea. Even then, I don't think the ground should be expanded, it needs to be sustained demand over a few years.

Leicester obviously feel they're at that point and are targeting a modest increase. If Saints get there, a new tier on the Kingsland adds what, 8,000 or so? I can't remember the specs from the Lowe days. But regardless, that would be fine as you could keep it shut for most games probably.

I just can't ever see 40,000 turning up at St Marys to watch most matches. But I might be wrong.

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Leicester ground expansion on 23:37 - Nov 25 with 1686 viewsSaintsforeverj

Leicester ground expansion on 23:23 - Nov 25 by Gennaro_Contaldo

Saints will do well to sell week in week out, even in the best of seasons. Like it or not, Southampton (and area) is just not a "football" area in the same way other towns/cities are.

If Saints won the league, or got regular champions league qualification, then all the knob head businesses would suddenly be buying season tickets for guests and loads of plastic kids would turn out who'd otherwise have "supported" Chelsea. Even then, I don't think the ground should be expanded, it needs to be sustained demand over a few years.

Leicester obviously feel they're at that point and are targeting a modest increase. If Saints get there, a new tier on the Kingsland adds what, 8,000 or so? I can't remember the specs from the Lowe days. But regardless, that would be fine as you could keep it shut for most games probably.

I just can't ever see 40,000 turning up at St Marys to watch most matches. But I might be wrong.


I think you're probably right. If we won the league or were in the top 4 for a good number of years, more "fans" / businesses would turn up. But otherwise, we just wouldn't fill the ground. Pricing is also relevant here. I know a good few Saints fans who won't / can't pay the PL prices, so actually there are fans there to fill the seats perhaps. But like you say about Southampton not being a football area, we have a section of floating support that would only turn up if the prices were less than a tenner, whereas other clubs have a larger hardcore support I guess. We took 50 thousand plus fans to the JPT cup final. But that was cheap tickets for a cup final I think.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2020 23:42]

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Leicester ground expansion on 00:13 - Nov 26 with 1669 viewsBicester_North

If Saints had their own radio station I think that would entice a new generation of fans in.

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Leicester ground expansion on 00:51 - Nov 26 with 1660 viewsdirk_doone

Leicester ground expansion on 23:23 - Nov 25 by Gennaro_Contaldo

Saints will do well to sell week in week out, even in the best of seasons. Like it or not, Southampton (and area) is just not a "football" area in the same way other towns/cities are.

If Saints won the league, or got regular champions league qualification, then all the knob head businesses would suddenly be buying season tickets for guests and loads of plastic kids would turn out who'd otherwise have "supported" Chelsea. Even then, I don't think the ground should be expanded, it needs to be sustained demand over a few years.

Leicester obviously feel they're at that point and are targeting a modest increase. If Saints get there, a new tier on the Kingsland adds what, 8,000 or so? I can't remember the specs from the Lowe days. But regardless, that would be fine as you could keep it shut for most games probably.

I just can't ever see 40,000 turning up at St Marys to watch most matches. But I might be wrong.


"Like it or not, Southampton (and area) is just not a "football" area in the same way other towns/cities are."

What complete and UTTER CRAP.

I doubt there is any other city/area in the country that would have so many fans turning up to games when they have underachieved as much as our team has: One trophy in 136 years and yet we are still one of the 12 best supported teams in the country. Other teams of our size have won 4 or 5 major trophies and yet still have fewer fans at games than we do.

I remember when I lived in London, I had a mate who was a Coventry fan who came to a few Saints home and away games with me and he said Coventry will never be a football city like Southampton is, and he was right. There are many bigger cities in the country that will never have the loyalty and size of support that we have.

In the 18 years since Leicester and Saints have had their new stadiums, our overall average home gate has been bigger than theirs. It's only in the last 5 years that their gates have picked up. As for another even more successful East Midlands team from a bigger city that has had a bigger capacity stadium than ours for most of its history, Nottingham Forest, their all-time average home gate is still smaller than ours.

[Post edited 26 Nov 2020 8:03]

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Leicester ground expansion on 08:52 - Nov 26 with 1507 viewsChesham_Saint

Leicester ground expansion on 00:51 - Nov 26 by dirk_doone

"Like it or not, Southampton (and area) is just not a "football" area in the same way other towns/cities are."

What complete and UTTER CRAP.

I doubt there is any other city/area in the country that would have so many fans turning up to games when they have underachieved as much as our team has: One trophy in 136 years and yet we are still one of the 12 best supported teams in the country. Other teams of our size have won 4 or 5 major trophies and yet still have fewer fans at games than we do.

I remember when I lived in London, I had a mate who was a Coventry fan who came to a few Saints home and away games with me and he said Coventry will never be a football city like Southampton is, and he was right. There are many bigger cities in the country that will never have the loyalty and size of support that we have.

In the 18 years since Leicester and Saints have had their new stadiums, our overall average home gate has been bigger than theirs. It's only in the last 5 years that their gates have picked up. As for another even more successful East Midlands team from a bigger city that has had a bigger capacity stadium than ours for most of its history, Nottingham Forest, their all-time average home gate is still smaller than ours.

[Post edited 26 Nov 2020 8:03]


Well said Dirk! What the fvck is a football town anyway? Burnley, for the size of their population pull in big crowds. So they’re a football town, yes? Blackburn have won more in recent decades but don’t (I may be being harsh there) so do they qualify? But oooh! Wait, they’re oop north so of course it means they must be “football towns”.

Are there any southern “football towns”? Bournemouth is a resort town and God’s waiting room; Brighton essentially a cultural outpost of London. Compared to those two we’re a working city, but does that make a football town?

This whole “football town” premise seems entirely fallacious to me.

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Leicester ground expansion on 10:13 - Nov 26 with 1475 viewsPatfromPoole

Leicester ground expansion on 08:52 - Nov 26 by Chesham_Saint

Well said Dirk! What the fvck is a football town anyway? Burnley, for the size of their population pull in big crowds. So they’re a football town, yes? Blackburn have won more in recent decades but don’t (I may be being harsh there) so do they qualify? But oooh! Wait, they’re oop north so of course it means they must be “football towns”.

Are there any southern “football towns”? Bournemouth is a resort town and God’s waiting room; Brighton essentially a cultural outpost of London. Compared to those two we’re a working city, but does that make a football town?

This whole “football town” premise seems entirely fallacious to me.


I think Brighton is a football area.

They had good crowds historically in the 70’s, and their fans were passionately instrumental in getting rid of the hated Bellotti and his crew in the 90’s.

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Leicester ground expansion on 10:34 - Nov 26 with 1460 viewsdirk_doone

A lot of it depends on the success of the team and that is often the result of a club winning the ownership lottery by getting a wealthy, ambitious one, as was the case at Blackburn in the 90s and more recently, Leicester. For the same reason, Leipzig has recently become the football city in Germany. The only reason that one of the biggest industrial cities in the country, Bradford, doesn't spring to mind as a football city is that its team has been unsuccessful for so long. But 100 years ago, when they were successful, they were getting bigger crowds than Leeds.

I remember watching a TV quiz show in 1976 when a contestant was asked where he came from and he replied "Southampton." The host immediately responded, "Ah, the football city!" The same would probably have been said to a contestant from Leicester in 2016.

What is undeniable is that for a club of our size, we are, in terms of trophies won, arguably the most underachieving team in the country, which makes the large number of fans we have all the more impressive.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2020 11:04]

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Leicester ground expansion on 12:18 - Nov 26 with 1406 viewsChesham_Saint

Leicester ground expansion on 10:34 - Nov 26 by dirk_doone

A lot of it depends on the success of the team and that is often the result of a club winning the ownership lottery by getting a wealthy, ambitious one, as was the case at Blackburn in the 90s and more recently, Leicester. For the same reason, Leipzig has recently become the football city in Germany. The only reason that one of the biggest industrial cities in the country, Bradford, doesn't spring to mind as a football city is that its team has been unsuccessful for so long. But 100 years ago, when they were successful, they were getting bigger crowds than Leeds.

I remember watching a TV quiz show in 1976 when a contestant was asked where he came from and he replied "Southampton." The host immediately responded, "Ah, the football city!" The same would probably have been said to a contestant from Leicester in 2016.

What is undeniable is that for a club of our size, we are, in terms of trophies won, arguably the most underachieving team in the country, which makes the large number of fans we have all the more impressive.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2020 11:04]


It's not just that we've under achieved which makes the level of support impressive. The phrase "it's the hope that kills" applies. Let's face it we really should have won more which is hard to take. If you support say Bournemouth or Reading their mind set must be very different...

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Leicester ground expansion on 13:38 - Nov 26 with 1380 viewsSaintsforeverj

Leicester ground expansion on 10:34 - Nov 26 by dirk_doone

A lot of it depends on the success of the team and that is often the result of a club winning the ownership lottery by getting a wealthy, ambitious one, as was the case at Blackburn in the 90s and more recently, Leicester. For the same reason, Leipzig has recently become the football city in Germany. The only reason that one of the biggest industrial cities in the country, Bradford, doesn't spring to mind as a football city is that its team has been unsuccessful for so long. But 100 years ago, when they were successful, they were getting bigger crowds than Leeds.

I remember watching a TV quiz show in 1976 when a contestant was asked where he came from and he replied "Southampton." The host immediately responded, "Ah, the football city!" The same would probably have been said to a contestant from Leicester in 2016.

What is undeniable is that for a club of our size, we are, in terms of trophies won, arguably the most underachieving team in the country, which makes the large number of fans we have all the more impressive.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2020 11:04]


Your post has made me think about it and I think it's very true that huge success at Saints would have people clambering for tickets. Man City don't always sell all their seats and they are champions in a "football area". Ok, all seats are sold at Man U, Liverpool, and the london clubs but there are hell of a lot of tourists going to those grounds. Saints don't attract the same level of tourists, being less successful and not being in London. So we arn't topped up with tourists. I suppose Everton, Newcastle and Leeds have huge followings, but they have more trophies. And I agree, our loyal fans that keep going come what may, are some of the most dedicated around. But the point is as things stand, without the trophies and years of success, if we can't sell block 46 for about 8 of the games (and the less attractive games being under 30 000), then there is no way we would sell 40 000.

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