| “Getting promoted sustainably” 23:49 - Aug 15 with 2712 views | PatfromPoole |
Some talk of this tonight from Martin at the Fans’ Forum.
Good luck with that…..
A lot of idealistic talk from Martin and Wilcox (they are “aligned”, you see…..) about getting promoted in such a way that the squad we go up with would cope well in the Prem and we wouldn’t need to buy many new players.
They are getting ahead of themselves. We just need to get up as quickly as possible.
I’m not sure I sense the same aspirations in Martin and Wilcox. |  |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 08:48 - Aug 16 with 2525 views | SaintNick |
Im not sure what is wrong with their words, it shows they have a plan A and a plan B and are planning things.
Good managers don't brag and boast before they have achieved anything.
Would you rather that they have said " Look we haven't really got a plan, other than we will just sign what we can get, take it from there and if we get promoted then we will start it all over again"
Read back what was said when Markus Liebherr took over, the statements were all about building a sustainable club, they said it wasnt all about instant success but planning.
"We should not expect instant success, but our fans, employees and stakeholders can expect 100% commitment from me and my team."
"We will assemble a strong management team at every level of the club. We will act rapidly, but also plan for the long term, because I am here for the long term."
That is not a lot different than what is coming out of St Mary's at the moment.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8136389.stm |  |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 09:11 - Aug 16 with 2502 views | PatfromPoole |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 08:48 - Aug 16 by SaintNick |
Im not sure what is wrong with their words, it shows they have a plan A and a plan B and are planning things.
Good managers don't brag and boast before they have achieved anything.
Would you rather that they have said " Look we haven't really got a plan, other than we will just sign what we can get, take it from there and if we get promoted then we will start it all over again"
Read back what was said when Markus Liebherr took over, the statements were all about building a sustainable club, they said it wasnt all about instant success but planning.
"We should not expect instant success, but our fans, employees and stakeholders can expect 100% commitment from me and my team."
"We will assemble a strong management team at every level of the club. We will act rapidly, but also plan for the long term, because I am here for the long term."
That is not a lot different than what is coming out of St Mary's at the moment.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8136389.stm |
But the model seems to be,
“Buy young and sell 1 or 2 diamonds each year to sustain the funding of the whole project.”
Which doesn’t work because you keep losing your best players each summer, so the team doesn’t improve year-on-year.
And they will invariably make mistakes as they are younger, which we are told is all part of their learning experience. But the style of football (entertaining though it might be) will lend itself to more mistakes.
Under Liebherr, we did sign a number of players who had very good experience and weren’t risk signings.
Martin and Wilcox are impressive speakers, but I am not convinced there is substance to go with the style. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 9:12]
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 09:46 - Aug 16 with 2471 views | SaintNick |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 09:11 - Aug 16 by PatfromPoole |
But the model seems to be,
“Buy young and sell 1 or 2 diamonds each year to sustain the funding of the whole project.”
Which doesn’t work because you keep losing your best players each summer, so the team doesn’t improve year-on-year.
And they will invariably make mistakes as they are younger, which we are told is all part of their learning experience. But the style of football (entertaining though it might be) will lend itself to more mistakes.
Under Liebherr, we did sign a number of players who had very good experience and weren’t risk signings.
Martin and Wilcox are impressive speakers, but I am not convinced there is substance to go with the style. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 9:12]
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Firstly the problem with the model, this year has been the fact that firstly we were relegated and secondly we had a talent in Lavia who was exceptional.
The fact is that if we are selling 1-2 players each season at a high price then the model is working, if we are not selling then no one wants to buy and it could be said to be not working because we are not bringing in money to improve the team.
The other problem is that there is only a certain level in the premier League that you can reach, then you might well improve your team year in year out, but you will struggle to sustain 8th position year in year out.
I have been saying for years that we need experience in the centre of defence, it could be said that when we buy experience they are worse than the youngsters, Caleta-Car, Orsic, Bree, Lyanco being just 4 examples of experience rather than youth.
When Liebherr arrived it was easier, we almost had a blank canvas to work from at a level where we had more money than the rest, we could afford to buy in experience, I think in the first season we spent more than the rest of the league put together.
Your problem seems to be in the style of football, you don't like the possession game, , the evidence that you use being Martin last season at Swansea, but Swansea were only 3 points off the play offs and with considerably less infrastructure & money than Saints have.
Why should Saints make more mistakes than Swansea did last year, the evidence says that Saints have more foundation than Swansea, so Martin should be able to breach that 3 points gap as a minimum and reach the play offs.
The real issue at the moment is not the style of game it is our lack of quality in key areas, I said on Friday that Saturday against Norwich would be the point in the season that our squad would be at it's weakest, it will only get stronger now.
Against Norwich we limited them to 5 chances on target, they scored 4, with 3 being mistakes, we cut out half the mistakes and we will prosper.
All I ever say to people on here is judge what is happening and indeed individual players as the season goes on, don't judge them on last season and don't judge them until the transfer window is closed and we have half a dozen games under our belts.
The truth is the model now is not really different to the one that in the main Saints have employed since Ted Bates, it is just adapted to a modern age | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 09:57 - Aug 16 with 2444 views | saints__fan__73 |
Is this a sustainable model though?
We made money on Mane and VVD. And then a big gap until Tino (signed under Gao) and then one player from the SR error.
In between there have been a large number of £10-20m purchases who have turned out to be utter flops and worth nothing to us and millstones around our necks in terms of wages until their contracts expire. There must have been 20 of these we can name in the past seasons. |  |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 10:10 - Aug 16 with 2426 views | Berber |
So we sell our best players, (and others beside), get a couple of free transfers, loans and Man City Academy youths, and this is a strong base for PL survival? Like we didn’t have the experience of inexperienced players in the PL last season?
Well, actions speak louder than words I suppose. We’ll have a good indication by Christmas if there is any hope of promotion or playoffs, and that will be a better time to judge the squad and the management.
Methinks they are taking the Norwich City approach, life is lovely being dumped on in the PL and surfacing through the detritus of the Championship to have another go. |  | | |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 10:25 - Aug 16 with 2415 views | PatfromPoole |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 10:10 - Aug 16 by Berber |
So we sell our best players, (and others beside), get a couple of free transfers, loans and Man City Academy youths, and this is a strong base for PL survival? Like we didn’t have the experience of inexperienced players in the PL last season?
Well, actions speak louder than words I suppose. We’ll have a good indication by Christmas if there is any hope of promotion or playoffs, and that will be a better time to judge the squad and the management.
Methinks they are taking the Norwich City approach, life is lovely being dumped on in the PL and surfacing through the detritus of the Championship to have another go. |
It’s essentially Man City Lite.
But doing it in a “financially sustainable” way, and by letting players develop so that they can move on to Man. City, Chelsea or Liverpool.
Russell Martin clearly has designs on the City job in the next 10 years. | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 10:50 - Aug 16 with 2382 views | SaintNick |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 09:57 - Aug 16 by saints__fan__73 |
Is this a sustainable model though?
We made money on Mane and VVD. And then a big gap until Tino (signed under Gao) and then one player from the SR error.
In between there have been a large number of £10-20m purchases who have turned out to be utter flops and worth nothing to us and millstones around our necks in terms of wages until their contracts expire. There must have been 20 of these we can name in the past seasons. |
The only truly sustainable model in the Premier League is to have a very rich owner preferably from the Middle East and who is willing to totally ignore Financial Fair Play rules and buy their way out of any given situation.
For anyone not in the Big 7, there is no truly sustainable model that enables you to improve year in year out | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 12:30 - Aug 16 with 2305 views | Bison |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 10:50 - Aug 16 by SaintNick |
The only truly sustainable model in the Premier League is to have a very rich owner preferably from the Middle East and who is willing to totally ignore Financial Fair Play rules and buy their way out of any given situation.
For anyone not in the Big 7, there is no truly sustainable model that enables you to improve year in year out |
Can we win the league and refuse to go up ? Maybe their are Premiership rules like if you dont have this you cant play in Prem. Don't have enough gender binary bogs for instance.
That would be ideal situation for me until they start this Saudi Super League. |  |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 14:08 - Aug 16 with 2197 views | LondonSaint76 |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 12:30 - Aug 16 by Bison |
Can we win the league and refuse to go up ? Maybe their are Premiership rules like if you dont have this you cant play in Prem. Don't have enough gender binary bogs for instance.
That would be ideal situation for me until they start this Saudi Super League. |
If the PL let Luton in we have got no chance of staying put in the Championship! |  |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 14:50 - Aug 16 with 2144 views | barry_sanchez |
In short selling players, buying gambles and hoping for the best, in a division lower than last year where the same system obviously failed.
Way to go lads, that's some thinking. |  |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:05 - Aug 16 with 2116 views | SaintNick |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 14:50 - Aug 16 by barry_sanchez |
In short selling players, buying gambles and hoping for the best, in a division lower than last year where the same system obviously failed.
Way to go lads, that's some thinking. |
It is very easy to be sarcastic, but in short the buying and selling of players was not the root cause of relegation as has been proved by the amount of transfer fees we have taken in.
The root cause was poor management in the boardroom, which has now all changed.
This season we have not gambled, we have signed Ryan Manning a player considered the best left back in the Championship last season , we have signed a back up keeper who has played the last two seasons at Championship level and then Shea Charles who is untried, but not unknown to our Director of Football.
Selling players is beyond our control, we have now got money in and it is about what we do next, so far we have seen 6 players leave the club, that will probably be 7 by this evening, but only two of them played a key part last season. | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:19 - Aug 16 with 2104 views | barry_sanchez |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:05 - Aug 16 by SaintNick |
It is very easy to be sarcastic, but in short the buying and selling of players was not the root cause of relegation as has been proved by the amount of transfer fees we have taken in.
The root cause was poor management in the boardroom, which has now all changed.
This season we have not gambled, we have signed Ryan Manning a player considered the best left back in the Championship last season , we have signed a back up keeper who has played the last two seasons at Championship level and then Shea Charles who is untried, but not unknown to our Director of Football.
Selling players is beyond our control, we have now got money in and it is about what we do next, so far we have seen 6 players leave the club, that will probably be 7 by this evening, but only two of them played a key part last season. |
Its not sarcasm if its is fact, a model of buying low and selling high is a gamble that was going to fail at some point, you can't keep diluting your team, it appears we're continuing that gamble.
That is stupid, be a yo yo club and be honest about it. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:22 - Aug 16 with 2096 views | barry_sanchez |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:19 - Aug 16 by barry_sanchez |
Its not sarcasm if its is fact, a model of buying low and selling high is a gamble that was going to fail at some point, you can't keep diluting your team, it appears we're continuing that gamble.
That is stupid, be a yo yo club and be honest about it. |
"This season we have not gambled, we have signed Ryan Manning a player considered the best left back in the Championship last season , we have signed a back up keeper who has played the last two seasons at Championship level and then Shea Charles who is untried, but not unknown to our Director of Football."
Gambles and managers favourites, Manning made a mistake on the weekend and he looks terribly one footed, a 3rd choice goalkeeper is kicking you when you're down as our 1st and 2nd choice are inadequate and Charles is the tried and tested model of buy low sell high gambled that failed last season.
Not good strategic thinking, simply following a broken method. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:38 - Aug 16 with 2071 views | Butty101 |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:05 - Aug 16 by SaintNick |
It is very easy to be sarcastic, but in short the buying and selling of players was not the root cause of relegation as has been proved by the amount of transfer fees we have taken in.
The root cause was poor management in the boardroom, which has now all changed.
This season we have not gambled, we have signed Ryan Manning a player considered the best left back in the Championship last season , we have signed a back up keeper who has played the last two seasons at Championship level and then Shea Charles who is untried, but not unknown to our Director of Football.
Selling players is beyond our control, we have now got money in and it is about what we do next, so far we have seen 6 players leave the club, that will probably be 7 by this evening, but only two of them played a key part last season. |
Buying and selling last season was a massive problem. The fact of last seasons punt we have moved on one so far, suggests it very mush was at the heart of our problems.
This summers Ins are looking weak at the moment. To many youths being added to the Bteam, that realistically never make it. Think Dynel Simeu, Thierry Small etc |  |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 17:10 - Aug 16 with 1983 views | Ron11 |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 15:22 - Aug 16 by barry_sanchez |
"This season we have not gambled, we have signed Ryan Manning a player considered the best left back in the Championship last season , we have signed a back up keeper who has played the last two seasons at Championship level and then Shea Charles who is untried, but not unknown to our Director of Football."
Gambles and managers favourites, Manning made a mistake on the weekend and he looks terribly one footed, a 3rd choice goalkeeper is kicking you when you're down as our 1st and 2nd choice are inadequate and Charles is the tried and tested model of buy low sell high gambled that failed last season.
Not good strategic thinking, simply following a broken method. |
Perraud looks a better left back than Manning. |  | | |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 19:13 - Aug 16 with 1900 views | Berber |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 17:10 - Aug 16 by Ron11 |
Perraud looks a better left back than Manning. |
Perrault would get into most PL squads, and be a first pick in many. The fact that he is not apparently a first pick here (considered not as good as a player that, to quote the media,”Made an error that even a schoolboy would be embarrassed by.” We obviously need cover in all positions, but they should be competent in the basics at least. | | | |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 19:56 - Aug 16 with 1864 views | Jellybaby |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 12:30 - Aug 16 by Bison |
Can we win the league and refuse to go up ? Maybe their are Premiership rules like if you dont have this you cant play in Prem. Don't have enough gender binary bogs for instance.
That would be ideal situation for me until they start this Saudi Super League. |
We could try saying we won't take the knee, or won't wear rainbow laces on the specified days because it's tokenistic nonsense - that should do it. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 21:53 - Aug 16 with 1761 views | SaintNick |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 17:10 - Aug 16 by Ron11 |
Perraud looks a better left back than Manning. |
Manning has played twice so far, he was good at Sheffield Wednesday and Ok against Norwich aside from the dodgy clearance give him a chance | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 22:22 - Aug 16 with 1732 views | PatfromPoole |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 21:53 - Aug 16 by SaintNick |
Manning has played twice so far, he was good at Sheffield Wednesday and Ok against Norwich aside from the dodgy clearance give him a chance |
I just feel that Martin set Perraud up to fail by playing him at CB against Gillingham.
Doubt he has played there before in his career.
He then didn’t hesitate to criticise him after the game, saying that a Prem player should be able to adapt to a change of position.
Martin clearly has his favourites, and Perraud is not destined to be one of those.
I would be sad to see Perraud go, but for the sake of his career he may need to. | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 22:36 - Aug 16 with 1691 views | SaintNick |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 22:22 - Aug 16 by PatfromPoole |
I just feel that Martin set Perraud up to fail by playing him at CB against Gillingham.
Doubt he has played there before in his career.
He then didn’t hesitate to criticise him after the game, saying that a Prem player should be able to adapt to a change of position.
Martin clearly has his favourites, and Perraud is not destined to be one of those.
I would be sad to see Perraud go, but for the sake of his career he may need to. |
I dont disagree with you over the Gillingham game, it was a strange decision, it did the player no favours.
However I don't think he is the best left back we have ever had, but being a bit of a tryer the fans like him and in my opinion he get a lot more leeway.
In truth last season he was 2nd choice and if Larios had not got injured he might have been 3rd choice.
Perraud is a full back rather than a wing back, he cant get up and down the wing as a wing back needs to. Thats not a criticism, there are plenty who cant do that in the Premier League,but the way we are playing we need wing backs, Livramento was one, KWP is one, Larios is one, but Perrau isnt.
Manning can and i think that in a month or so no one will be questioning Manning.
Managers have their favourites, Manning is clearly one of Martin's, but his record speaks for itself last season so there is no favouritism. | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 00:11 - Aug 17 with 1639 views | Southamptonfan |
The jury is still out on RM. Two decent performances so far, things to work on defensively, but lots of goals scored, Adams and Armstrong seem to have suddenly turned good. I will judge what I see on the pitch. Whether he has favourites, loves Bazunu and Manning but not Perraud, who he picks, style of play are all besides the point. The results on the pitch will make up our minds about RM won't they. It's far too early to have any definitive opinion. It's been ok on the pitch so far. | |
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| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 00:22 - Aug 17 with 1626 views | Chesham_Saint |
| “Getting promoted sustainably” on 08:48 - Aug 16 by SaintNick |
Im not sure what is wrong with their words, it shows they have a plan A and a plan B and are planning things.
Good managers don't brag and boast before they have achieved anything.
Would you rather that they have said " Look we haven't really got a plan, other than we will just sign what we can get, take it from there and if we get promoted then we will start it all over again"
Read back what was said when Markus Liebherr took over, the statements were all about building a sustainable club, they said it wasnt all about instant success but planning.
"We should not expect instant success, but our fans, employees and stakeholders can expect 100% commitment from me and my team."
"We will assemble a strong management team at every level of the club. We will act rapidly, but also plan for the long term, because I am here for the long term."
That is not a lot different than what is coming out of St Mary's at the moment.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8136389.stm |
This is what happens when you have owners who, in football terms, are relative paupers. |  |
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