| Rustyball 08:42 - Jun 29 with 2913 views | PatfromPoole |
Have been reading up on Rustyball on The Athletic.
Rusty’s tactic is basically as below.
- pass, pass, pass, pass, pass very slowly
- wait for the oppo to get bored of this and to press
- then try and pass through their press
- hope you don’t give the ball away when the oppo do press
It is a bit of a mystery to me what happens if the oppo don’t press.
Presumably a repeat of West Germany v Austria in the 1982 World Cup.
Could be a tough watch though. Dribbling and long passes are strongly discouraged and rarely happen. |  |
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| Rustyball on 08:53 - Jun 29 with 2165 views | PatfromPoole |
The system relies on a quarterback style player who controls the tempo and who the ball often goes to.
Matt Grimes does this for Swansea; regularly touches the ball over 100 times a game.
However you need players who can pass the ball short distances between gaps to cut through the oppo. The thought of Diallo trying to do this fills me with horror, in truth. | |
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| Rustyball on 11:43 - Jun 29 with 2059 views | SonicBoom |
Seems to be only two ways to play now.
Very high press or the low block.
Endless passing is frankly bloody tedious. The only team Ive seen do it well is City and they are genuinely good enough to tempt you to come out, then they pass through you and have clinical finishers.
Is it me or have we been playing possession based football for years? I seem to remember we always had the ball way more than any opposition going back as far as Poch. I remember being frustrated that we often had 70% of the ball and still lost as we've lacked a finisher.
Even last year we had the ball for long periods in games. Keeping it wasn't a problem. But we had no penetration and just played around in front of the opposition.
You can have the ball all you like, but if you can't score then it's going to be extremely boring to watch. |  | | |
| Rustyball on 12:02 - Jun 29 with 2040 views | dirk_doone |
| Rustyball on 11:43 - Jun 29 by SonicBoom |
Seems to be only two ways to play now.
Very high press or the low block.
Endless passing is frankly bloody tedious. The only team Ive seen do it well is City and they are genuinely good enough to tempt you to come out, then they pass through you and have clinical finishers.
Is it me or have we been playing possession based football for years? I seem to remember we always had the ball way more than any opposition going back as far as Poch. I remember being frustrated that we often had 70% of the ball and still lost as we've lacked a finisher.
Even last year we had the ball for long periods in games. Keeping it wasn't a problem. But we had no penetration and just played around in front of the opposition.
You can have the ball all you like, but if you can't score then it's going to be extremely boring to watch. |
The other problem is that with our goalkepers, the opposition only needs to get 1 or 2 shots on target to beat us.
After a largely depressing season, we left with some optimism after the Liverpool game, where our attacking players, instead of having to pass sideways. were given free rein to go on solo runs, dribbling through the opposition at pace, which Sulemana and Amo Ameyaw did very effectively. With the addition of Tella, you could see how we could rip through Championship defences like that, as Channon used to do in the old Second Division.. [Post edited 29 Jun 2023 17:50]
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| Rustyball on 19:53 - Jun 29 with 1896 views | StRipper |
| Rustyball on 12:02 - Jun 29 by dirk_doone |
The other problem is that with our goalkepers, the opposition only needs to get 1 or 2 shots on target to beat us.
After a largely depressing season, we left with some optimism after the Liverpool game, where our attacking players, instead of having to pass sideways. were given free rein to go on solo runs, dribbling through the opposition at pace, which Sulemana and Amo Ameyaw did very effectively. With the addition of Tella, you could see how we could rip through Championship defences like that, as Channon used to do in the old Second Division.. [Post edited 29 Jun 2023 17:50]
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Surely McCarthy can't be staying for another season?!?
I shed a little tear when I saw he was still here in the Saints Day #1 promo video |  | | |
| Rustyball on 21:24 - Jun 29 with 1837 views | grumpy |
Two positions that are of the most importance
1. The Centre Forward who scores goals.
and
2. The Goalkeeper who saves them.
At this moment in time that's a concern . |  | | |
| Rustyball on 21:34 - Jun 29 with 1830 views | PatfromPoole |
| Rustyball on 21:24 - Jun 29 by grumpy |
Two positions that are of the most importance
1. The Centre Forward who scores goals.
and
2. The Goalkeeper who saves them.
At this moment in time that's a concern . |
Totally agree.
Having 70% possession of the ball is totally meaningless if you don’t have good players in the key positions.
If anything, it’s more difficult to be a goalkeeper when we dominate possession, as you’re not getting much action in the game to keep concentration levels high. | |
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| Rustyball on 21:44 - Jun 29 with 1815 views | GRIM |
| Rustyball on 11:43 - Jun 29 by SonicBoom |
Seems to be only two ways to play now.
Very high press or the low block.
Endless passing is frankly bloody tedious. The only team Ive seen do it well is City and they are genuinely good enough to tempt you to come out, then they pass through you and have clinical finishers.
Is it me or have we been playing possession based football for years? I seem to remember we always had the ball way more than any opposition going back as far as Poch. I remember being frustrated that we often had 70% of the ball and still lost as we've lacked a finisher.
Even last year we had the ball for long periods in games. Keeping it wasn't a problem. But we had no penetration and just played around in front of the opposition.
You can have the ball all you like, but if you can't score then it's going to be extremely boring to watch. |
Good post & spot on.
Stats prove that teams that have most possession usually end up getting beat by teams with pace that hit you on the break.
Man City can do it because they have top quality players in every position, but very few teams play possession football successfully.
I for one am not looking forward to watching our team attempt to play keep ball with no end product.
Buy only time will tell if RM can make it work for us. | | | |
| Rustyball on 22:11 - Jun 29 with 1789 views | Southamptonfan |
| Rustyball on 21:44 - Jun 29 by GRIM |
Good post & spot on.
Stats prove that teams that have most possession usually end up getting beat by teams with pace that hit you on the break.
Man City can do it because they have top quality players in every position, but very few teams play possession football successfully.
I for one am not looking forward to watching our team attempt to play keep ball with no end product.
Buy only time will tell if RM can make it work for us. |
If we can somehow keep possession and also attack with aggression I suppose it could work, but passing slowly around the back and not scoring goals will be a problem. | |
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| Rustyball on 01:26 - Jun 30 with 1715 views | saint22 |
| Rustyball on 21:24 - Jun 29 by grumpy |
Two positions that are of the most importance
1. The Centre Forward who scores goals.
and
2. The Goalkeeper who saves them.
At this moment in time that's a concern . |
what we also need and have done for seasons is to have the very few pacy skilful players we have actually attack the opposition instead of doubling back nd playing it sideways all the time
Armstrong and Sulemana and Tino even need to be allowed to attack | | | |
| Rustyball on 07:14 - Jun 30 with 1657 views | PatfromPoole |
| Rustyball on 01:26 - Jun 30 by saint22 |
what we also need and have done for seasons is to have the very few pacy skilful players we have actually attack the opposition instead of doubling back nd playing it sideways all the time
Armstrong and Sulemana and Tino even need to be allowed to attack |
I don’t think Rustyball really encourages that. | |
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| Rustyball on 08:12 - Jun 30 with 1623 views | SonicBoom |
I think Ralph knew our defence was so bad that he thought the only way not to lose was to keep the ball as much as we could. So our more pacey attacking players were told not to lose the ball under any circumstances. So instead of taking people on and taking risks with the ball to try and create, they just passed it back and sideways so they didn't get a "ticking off" at half time. | | | |
| Rustyball on 08:24 - Jun 30 with 1617 views | PatfromPoole |
| Rustyball on 08:12 - Jun 30 by SonicBoom |
I think Ralph knew our defence was so bad that he thought the only way not to lose was to keep the ball as much as we could. So our more pacey attacking players were told not to lose the ball under any circumstances. So instead of taking people on and taking risks with the ball to try and create, they just passed it back and sideways so they didn't get a "ticking off" at half time. |
Yes, quite possibly.
Rustyball also involves pushing the FB’s very high up the pitch, so any opposing manager will be looking to hit us on the break on the wing. And for their defence to have cigars while we pass the ball round the pitch for 20 minutes at a time…… | |
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| Rustyball on 08:49 - Jun 30 with 1590 views | grumpy |
| Rustyball on 08:24 - Jun 30 by PatfromPoole |
Yes, quite possibly.
Rustyball also involves pushing the FB’s very high up the pitch, so any opposing manager will be looking to hit us on the break on the wing. And for their defence to have cigars while we pass the ball round the pitch for 20 minutes at a time…… |
Not sure you're looking forward to Martins tenure,Pat.  | | | |
| Rustyball on 08:53 - Jun 30 with 1588 views | PatfromPoole |
| Rustyball on 08:49 - Jun 30 by grumpy |
Not sure you're looking forward to Martins tenure,Pat. |
I think it could be very good if you have the players to make it work.
But as has been said, we are not Man. City.
I can see us having many a game with 70% possession, not looking like scoring, and conceding goals aplenty due to hari kari at the back where we piss about with the ball in our own box and give it away. | |
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| Rustyball on 09:04 - Jun 30 with 1580 views | grumpy |
| Rustyball on 08:53 - Jun 30 by PatfromPoole |
I think it could be very good if you have the players to make it work.
But as has been said, we are not Man. City.
I can see us having many a game with 70% possession, not looking like scoring, and conceding goals aplenty due to hari kari at the back where we piss about with the ball in our own box and give it away. |
Must admit one thing that drives me crazy is the Goalkeeper rolling the ball out to his closest defender who inevitably finds himself under pressure in his own half. | | | |
| Rustyball on 09:08 - Jun 30 with 1578 views | Ron11 |
| Rustyball on 09:04 - Jun 30 by grumpy |
Must admit one thing that drives me crazy is the Goalkeeper rolling the ball out to his closest defender who inevitably finds himself under pressure in his own half. |
Yes, Liverpool's first goal in the last Premiership game, absolutely pathetic.
Then we see that McCarthy's still here, one of the highest paid players at the club.
Why is it they can't see what we all see? | | | |
| Rustyball on 09:09 - Jun 30 with 1576 views | Southamptonfan |
| Rustyball on 08:53 - Jun 30 by PatfromPoole |
I think it could be very good if you have the players to make it work.
But as has been said, we are not Man. City.
I can see us having many a game with 70% possession, not looking like scoring, and conceding goals aplenty due to hari kari at the back where we piss about with the ball in our own box and give it away. |
I share your concerns. We are not Man City, exactly. We don't and probably won't have players at the back who are composed and highly skilled enough to arrogantly pass it around the back, whilst the opposition chase shadows. And it will annoy the fans like hell, if it's nil nil or worse and we are patiently passing it around. There will be many cries of "Get it forward", "Get it in the f@cking box!!!""
But RM did talk about keeping the ball but also being aggressive and playing with intent to win so let's see how it looks I suppose. [Post edited 30 Jun 2023 9:11]
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| Rustyball on 09:14 - Jun 30 with 1567 views | 1teeminants |
| Rustyball on 21:24 - Jun 29 by grumpy |
Two positions that are of the most importance
1. The Centre Forward who scores goals.
and
2. The Goalkeeper who saves them.
At this moment in time that's a concern . |
Grumps Che Adams and Adam Armstrong scored goals for fun the last time they were in the championship. |  |
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| Rustyball on 09:16 - Jun 30 with 1560 views | 1teeminants |
| Rustyball on 08:53 - Jun 30 by PatfromPoole |
I think it could be very good if you have the players to make it work.
But as has been said, we are not Man. City.
I can see us having many a game with 70% possession, not looking like scoring, and conceding goals aplenty due to hari kari at the back where we piss about with the ball in our own box and give it away. |
No we’re not Man City mate but we’re not playing against premier league opponents either. | |
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| Rustyball on 09:17 - Jun 30 with 1556 views | grumpy |
| Rustyball on 09:14 - Jun 30 by 1teeminants |
Grumps Che Adams and Adam Armstrong scored goals for fun the last time they were in the championship. |
No guarantee their do it again after what they have been through here last season. | | | |
| Rustyball on 09:23 - Jun 30 with 1549 views | Southamptonfan |
| Rustyball on 09:16 - Jun 30 by 1teeminants |
No we’re not Man City mate but we’re not playing against premier league opponents either. |
We would need to be the Man City of the Championship though. It's a tough league, it's physical, players will rough us up. Playing beautiful possession based passing football won't be easy away at Millwall for example. I think we will need a plan B. Our passing will get disrupted with crunching tackles and physical play in some games. I just can't see how we will be so good that we can get just pass our way through every team, just like that. You need superior players to every team to do that. [Post edited 30 Jun 2023 9:25]
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| Rustyball on 09:25 - Jun 30 with 1547 views | PatfromPoole |
| Rustyball on 09:14 - Jun 30 by 1teeminants |
Grumps Che Adams and Adam Armstrong scored goals for fun the last time they were in the championship. |
They haven’t been regular goalscorers for a few seasons, and you don’t just start scoring again just because you are playing in a different league.
Adam Armstrong is now a totally different player from the striker that Blackburn had. All his confidence has been coached out of him by Hassenhutl.
That said, I think a front 3 of Che, Piroe and Tella could do a lot of damage in this League. | |
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| Rustyball on 10:02 - Jun 30 with 1517 views | SaintNick |
| Rustyball on 09:25 - Jun 30 by PatfromPoole |
They haven’t been regular goalscorers for a few seasons, and you don’t just start scoring again just because you are playing in a different league.
Adam Armstrong is now a totally different player from the striker that Blackburn had. All his confidence has been coached out of him by Hassenhutl.
That said, I think a front 3 of Che, Piroe and Tella could do a lot of damage in this League. |
Good players don't become bad players overnight, just going into a different league doesn't mean you start scoring again, but when you are taking a big drop in standard in that league it gives you a good chance of doing so.
Adam Armstrong looked confident when he scored against Liverpool, perhaps Russell Marin will coach it back into him and his possession football game that looks for through balls will suit Armstrong who is a channel runner.
Sekou Mara could also be a player at this level |  |
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| Rustyball on 10:07 - Jun 30 with 1514 views | PatfromPoole |
| Rustyball on 10:02 - Jun 30 by SaintNick |
Good players don't become bad players overnight, just going into a different league doesn't mean you start scoring again, but when you are taking a big drop in standard in that league it gives you a good chance of doing so.
Adam Armstrong looked confident when he scored against Liverpool, perhaps Russell Marin will coach it back into him and his possession football game that looks for through balls will suit Armstrong who is a channel runner.
Sekou Mara could also be a player at this level |
That Liverpool game was like a testimonial. You can’t read anything into that.
Have you not learned enough about Sekou Mara’s many limitations by now??!!?? | |
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| Rustyball on 10:21 - Jun 30 with 1503 views | SaintNick |
| Rustyball on 10:07 - Jun 30 by PatfromPoole |
That Liverpool game was like a testimonial. You can’t read anything into that.
Have you not learned enough about Sekou Mara’s many limitations by now??!!?? |
Ive learned about his strengths not his limitations, there is a good player in their as was shown by the goals he scored and the assists he got.
Likewise Adam Armstrong, yes the Liverpool game was like a Testimonial, but he still took his chance well, you wax lyrical about Dom Ballard, but so far all he has done is score a late goal in injury time against a League One side, given a choice I would have Adam Armstrong above Ballard in the side that starts the season
I thought for a minute you were looking at some positives 
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
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