| Loan deals precede departures 11:46 - Aug 25 with 3787 views | stmichael |
My immediate thoughts are we would not be signing Fraser if we were confident of keeping Tella and Everton would not be doing us any favours if we were in dispute over Che..
Both loan signings offer us experienced options which is welcome but if we lose the two afore mentioned nobody can dress this up as being good for the club or strengthening the squad. |  |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 12:08 - Aug 25 with 3730 views | A1079 |
I am not a great fan of loan arrangements as they are used now. Loan arrangements have their uses and it would be stupid to dismiss them, but they are not a long term strategy, they are a stop gap. In the distant past loan arrangements tended to be short term to aide filling areas where you suddenly had injuries etc or short term cover issues but these days they tend to be longer term. | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 14:25 - Aug 25 with 3578 views | sledger |
| Loan deals precede departures on 12:08 - Aug 25 by A1079 |
I am not a great fan of loan arrangements as they are used now. Loan arrangements have their uses and it would be stupid to dismiss them, but they are not a long term strategy, they are a stop gap. In the distant past loan arrangements tended to be short term to aide filling areas where you suddenly had injuries etc or short term cover issues but these days they tend to be longer term. |
but without the long term wage implications when they turn out sh+t | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 15:47 - Aug 25 with 3496 views | A1079 |
| Loan deals precede departures on 14:25 - Aug 25 by sledger |
but without the long term wage implications when they turn out sh+t |
agree Sledger - I can't argue with that and KWP is an excellent example of where a loan has worked out to the good for us. I know I am contradicting my own argument which is why I do not dismiss loan deals out of hand but where clubs use mass loans as a strategy then I don't think is a strong foundation - I am not suggesting our club is into mass loans but there are a few that have used it. I just prefer good scouting and recruiting but I guess we have been a bit suspect in that area in the last few seasons. | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 16:59 - Aug 25 with 3412 views | Monksway |
If Che is going we will need it to happen soon if we are going to get a replacement. Given Piroe has gone to Leeds nobody is springing to mind. Of the 10 top scorers in the championship last year only the Millwall lad is still with his original championship club the others have gone abroad,t ransferred or been promoted. Of course we have number 4 in Nathan Tella...... | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 17:12 - Aug 25 with 3384 views | solent_toffee |
| Loan deals precede departures on 16:59 - Aug 25 by Monksway |
If Che is going we will need it to happen soon if we are going to get a replacement. Given Piroe has gone to Leeds nobody is springing to mind. Of the 10 top scorers in the championship last year only the Millwall lad is still with his original championship club the others have gone abroad,t ransferred or been promoted. Of course we have number 4 in Nathan Tella...... |
Tom Cannon will be loaned out to a championship team before next week. Leeds, Preston, Sunderland, Coventry and Sheffield Wednesday have all enquirer about him both on loan and for 8m. Wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up at Saints, if and it’s a big if, Adams ends up at Everton.
He’s not quite ready for the premier league but was very good at PNE last season.
And that’s how rumours start! | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 17:53 - Aug 25 with 3329 views | areasix |
Tella has gone to BL in Germany signed today for a 20m euro package so hence Ryan coming in on loan. | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 17:57 - Aug 25 with 3324 views | areasix |
Two more CBs leaving us and Holgate and the Swansea kid coming in.
Good to see some experience coming in although my Everton mate says Holgate has a fault in him ever game but might be able to get away with it in the Championship. | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 18:09 - Aug 25 with 3298 views | Southamptonfan |
RM made a good case for the two loan players. They are experienced players in the PL and the Championship. RM personally knows Fraser, so should be able to deal with his character. He's aggressive, got something to prove. Same with Holgate, at one point he was a decent defender, so a league lower, he's experienced, a loud character, should be good signings. [Post edited 25 Aug 2023 18:14]
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| Loan deals precede departures on 18:36 - Aug 25 with 3259 views | SalisburySaint |
| Loan deals precede departures on 18:09 - Aug 25 by Southamptonfan |
RM made a good case for the two loan players. They are experienced players in the PL and the Championship. RM personally knows Fraser, so should be able to deal with his character. He's aggressive, got something to prove. Same with Holgate, at one point he was a decent defender, so a league lower, he's experienced, a loud character, should be good signings. [Post edited 25 Aug 2023 18:14]
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After getting Fraser, any truth in the rumours we are trying to get Walker, Jones and Pike in 🤪 |  | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 23:24 - Aug 25 with 3067 views | SonicBoom |
So far people have been wetting themselves about Wilcox and to 'trust the process'.
Up to now he's simply flogged all our best players for the thick end of 200 mill, and bought in Shea Charles for 15 and a bunch of loans.
To be honest, I could have done that. There is no measure by which this squad is now stronger.
They better have something up their sleeve in this last week. |  | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 23:38 - Aug 25 with 3054 views | dirk_doone |
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
IF we are assembling a squad to win the Championship, a higher league title than we've ever won before, even if that does involve loan deals, and even if we get relegated again the following season, I'll be happy.
Hopefully, we'll all be celebrating winning a trophy in May. [Post edited 25 Aug 2023 23:39]
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| Loan deals precede departures on 00:27 - Aug 26 with 3011 views | areasix |
What I like about Wilcox is that he has maxed out on the money he could get on the players leaving who either were to good to play in the championship, didn’t like the new managers tactics or who Saints board had put a value on their heads and if anyone met it then they would sell them.
A few more to go by next weekend surplus to requirements. | | | |
| Loan deals precede departures on 11:02 - Aug 27 with 2713 views | SaintNick |
| Loan deals precede departures on 23:24 - Aug 25 by SonicBoom |
So far people have been wetting themselves about Wilcox and to 'trust the process'.
Up to now he's simply flogged all our best players for the thick end of 200 mill, and bought in Shea Charles for 15 and a bunch of loans.
To be honest, I could have done that. There is no measure by which this squad is now stronger.
They better have something up their sleeve in this last week. |
Until the transfer window closes all you can do is trust the process, you can only judge it when the window shuts.
Im quite happy with the transfers done so far, I think Ryan Fraser is an upgrade on Nathan Tella, we have all been harking on about experience and he brings that, our winger options were Edozie, Tella & Amo Ameyaw, all relatively inexperienced.
Tella at age 24 left with only 36 league games to his name at Saints and 39 at Burnley,
Downes looked the part against QPR and hopefully Mason Holgate will bring pace to the back four.
Wilcox didn't just simply flog players, he held firm and got the top price for them, he seems to have set the players expectations and also the buying clubs, if he has simply just flogged them, then Livramento would have gone for £20 million, Lavia for £20 million and JWP for about £35 million, Tella would have joined Burnley for £10 million.
Wilcox seems to have worked the market well, holding out and creating demand for the players and thus upping the price.
The word stronger has to be put into context, on paper our squad at the end of last seasons is going to be stronger than the one that will be here at the end of this week, but it didn't perform and that was down to the manager.
In truth the only ones I think we will truly miss are JWP, Lavia & Livramento, the likes of Salisu & Bella-Kotchap had potential and ability but didn't apply it.
We have to accept that the players were leaving, the word stronger has to be used in context of who comes in and improves those still here from last season.
If we look at the four key departures, I think Kyle Wallker Peters played in his natural position as right back is not a bad replacement for Livramento, Ryan Fraser on loan is an upgrade on Tella, Shea Charles could well be better than Lavia going forward and JWP is irreplaceable, however Flynn Downes looks like he will be a key player this season. |  |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 15:45 - Aug 27 with 2609 views | 1teeminants |
| Loan deals precede departures on 17:53 - Aug 25 by areasix |
Tella has gone to BL in Germany signed today for a 20m euro package so hence Ryan coming in on loan. |
Russell Martin has said that Fraser is not Tella’s replacement and there will be one coming in . |  |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 17:23 - Aug 27 with 2544 views | stmichael |
Ryan Fraser is not an upgrade on Tella.
Market value alone tells
You that.
Fraser is however a decent player at this level.. | |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 18:55 - Aug 27 with 2461 views | SaintNick |
| Loan deals precede departures on 17:23 - Aug 27 by stmichael |
Ryan Fraser is not an upgrade on Tella.
Market value alone tells
You that.
Fraser is however a decent player at this level.. |
On transfermarkt Tella is valued at 18 million euros so about £16 million, back in March he was about £10 million and that was just about the highest price Burnley were prepared to pay.
At 24 years old he has not achieved anything in the game certainly not at Saints and just that season last year at Burnley, by this age he should have been looking at around 160 games under his belt , he has just 76.
We got a good offer that was well above his true value, it was good business to take it.
Ryan Fraser is valued at around £6 million he is 29 and proven at both Championship and Premier League level, he is at the peak age for a footballer, his value is low because he has been out in the cold at Newcastle since Eddie Howe arrived,
His value does not reflect his experience and ability, over 200 games in the top two divisions.
Personally I think £20 million for Tella and bringing in Fraser is good business, it is an ppgrade on Tella because we know what Fraser's ability is and he has shown it in the past whereas Tella hasnt.
We have been crying out for experience and on the wing we had the choice of Tella, 76 games, Sam Edozie 20 years old 21 games and Amo Adeyaw just turned 17 and just 4 appearances.
Fraser's experience showed yesterday | |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 20:16 - Aug 27 with 2421 views | Southamptonfan |
| Loan deals precede departures on 11:02 - Aug 27 by SaintNick |
Until the transfer window closes all you can do is trust the process, you can only judge it when the window shuts.
Im quite happy with the transfers done so far, I think Ryan Fraser is an upgrade on Nathan Tella, we have all been harking on about experience and he brings that, our winger options were Edozie, Tella & Amo Ameyaw, all relatively inexperienced.
Tella at age 24 left with only 36 league games to his name at Saints and 39 at Burnley,
Downes looked the part against QPR and hopefully Mason Holgate will bring pace to the back four.
Wilcox didn't just simply flog players, he held firm and got the top price for them, he seems to have set the players expectations and also the buying clubs, if he has simply just flogged them, then Livramento would have gone for £20 million, Lavia for £20 million and JWP for about £35 million, Tella would have joined Burnley for £10 million.
Wilcox seems to have worked the market well, holding out and creating demand for the players and thus upping the price.
The word stronger has to be put into context, on paper our squad at the end of last seasons is going to be stronger than the one that will be here at the end of this week, but it didn't perform and that was down to the manager.
In truth the only ones I think we will truly miss are JWP, Lavia & Livramento, the likes of Salisu & Bella-Kotchap had potential and ability but didn't apply it.
We have to accept that the players were leaving, the word stronger has to be used in context of who comes in and improves those still here from last season.
If we look at the four key departures, I think Kyle Wallker Peters played in his natural position as right back is not a bad replacement for Livramento, Ryan Fraser on loan is an upgrade on Tella, Shea Charles could well be better than Lavia going forward and JWP is irreplaceable, however Flynn Downes looks like he will be a key player this season. |
All of what you say is true Nick, and I agree that there is no point stopping players going if they want to go. We have done well to get top money for our players and full credit to the club for doing so.
However, where fans are probably worried or annoyed is that Piroe, who scored for Leeds yesterday and scored loads last year at this level and played under RM, could have been signed last Monday for 12 million. Job done. We have plenty in the bank, we should have just done it. Striker problem solved in advance.
Now we are scrambling around trying to replace Tella and Adams at the last minute and many of the options are now gone. That's the annoying bit. Even if Adams and Tella stayed and we had Piroe too, so what? We can afford it, it would just mean we would have lots of options and would be promoted. The anxiety is that we might now struggle to get required quality needed to replace those two top players at this level. No one minds them going, although it's a shame, just that we could have got replacements earlier, Piroe being the obvious example. Had we done that and spent some of the money we have brought in, as well as the loan players l, then there wouldn't be the worry now. [Post edited 27 Aug 2023 20:21]
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| Loan deals precede departures on 21:04 - Aug 27 with 2369 views | stmichael |
Done nothing in the game except fore Burnley to the Premier League which incidentally is our goal.
I will bet my ass that Fraser does not get 17 goals this season.
He won’t score 10… | |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 21:31 - Aug 27 with 2346 views | SaintNick |
| Loan deals precede departures on 20:16 - Aug 27 by Southamptonfan |
All of what you say is true Nick, and I agree that there is no point stopping players going if they want to go. We have done well to get top money for our players and full credit to the club for doing so.
However, where fans are probably worried or annoyed is that Piroe, who scored for Leeds yesterday and scored loads last year at this level and played under RM, could have been signed last Monday for 12 million. Job done. We have plenty in the bank, we should have just done it. Striker problem solved in advance.
Now we are scrambling around trying to replace Tella and Adams at the last minute and many of the options are now gone. That's the annoying bit. Even if Adams and Tella stayed and we had Piroe too, so what? We can afford it, it would just mean we would have lots of options and would be promoted. The anxiety is that we might now struggle to get required quality needed to replace those two top players at this level. No one minds them going, although it's a shame, just that we could have got replacements earlier, Piroe being the obvious example. Had we done that and spent some of the money we have brought in, as well as the loan players l, then there wouldn't be the worry now. [Post edited 27 Aug 2023 20:21]
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We arent scrambling to replace Tella, we signed Fraser before he had left to do that, we have several options for wide players .
Its fine to say we should have just signed Piroe, but the fact is we arent in the premier League any more we have to cut our cloth to suit our circumstances, yes we have taken in almost £200 million, but as was pointed out the record fee for a player coming in from the Championship is only about 15-16 million, we have to save some for next season when we will have to spend a fair bit if we get back to the premier League | |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 21:52 - Aug 27 with 2330 views | Southamptonfan |
| Loan deals precede departures on 21:31 - Aug 27 by SaintNick |
We arent scrambling to replace Tella, we signed Fraser before he had left to do that, we have several options for wide players .
Its fine to say we should have just signed Piroe, but the fact is we arent in the premier League any more we have to cut our cloth to suit our circumstances, yes we have taken in almost £200 million, but as was pointed out the record fee for a player coming in from the Championship is only about 15-16 million, we have to save some for next season when we will have to spend a fair bit if we get back to the premier League |
Fraser is not Tella's replacement, RM confirmed that. Piroe was 12 million, we have brought in 200 million, if we get promoted because of his goals it's all worth it. What's the point of saving some in case we go up? If we don't get the goals needed, we won't go up. And that would be a massive problem financially potentially. 12 million of we go up is peanuts. He's a goal scorer and almost guarantees us promotion when you add him to already winning team. RM is doing an impressive job. I hope he is backed and given the resources he needs. Piroe would have been a great replacement for Adams, if he goes. [Post edited 27 Aug 2023 21:53]
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| Loan deals precede departures on 21:54 - Aug 27 with 2326 views | SaintNick |
| Loan deals precede departures on 21:52 - Aug 27 by Southamptonfan |
Fraser is not Tella's replacement, RM confirmed that. Piroe was 12 million, we have brought in 200 million, if we get promoted because of his goals it's all worth it. What's the point of saving some in case we go up? If we don't get the goals needed, we won't go up. And that would be a massive problem financially potentially. 12 million of we go up is peanuts. He's a goal scorer and almost guarantees us promotion when you add him to already winning team. RM is doing an impressive job. I hope he is backed and given the resources he needs. Piroe would have been a great replacement for Adams, if he goes. [Post edited 27 Aug 2023 21:53]
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Would Piroe have wanted to come if Adams stays, he would have faced competition for a place from two strikers with a better track record than him in the Championship and indeed the Premier League in Adam Armstrong and Adams | |
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| Loan deals precede departures on 22:11 - Aug 27 with 2300 views | Southamptonfan |
| Loan deals precede departures on 21:54 - Aug 27 by SaintNick |
Would Piroe have wanted to come if Adams stays, he would have faced competition for a place from two strikers with a better track record than him in the Championship and indeed the Premier League in Adam Armstrong and Adams |
I'm pretty sure we will need three good strikers to ensure we go up this year. We will get injuries and suspensions without a doubt. Just like Stephens yesterday, AA could be out for months at some point or any of the strikers. If we had Armstrong, Adams plus another striker you have great competition for places which is healthy. Armstrong can also play on the wing. Nonetheless, it's likely Adams will go anyway. I think for 12 million, we really should have gone all out for an experienced Championship striker who knows how RM plays. 12 million is a bargain for a good striker at this level. He got what 17 goals last season? That's pretty decent. But that boat has sailed. The criticism is that Saints want promotion, so they should really show they mean business and get it done. Get in a couple of decent goals scorers that we know can do it at this level. The worry is whether or not we can replace the goals that we have sold. It's a worry, but we shall see. [Post edited 27 Aug 2023 22:26]
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