| cummings 11:03 - May 26 with 12547 views | saint22 |
Unsurprisingly ripping Bojo and his ship of fools a new one!
Hancock should have been fired for lying about 15 odd things, no plan, lockdown should have been earlier
Telling us what we all knew
But hey lets keep voting the idiots in shall we
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-57245479
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| cummings on 12:42 - May 27 with 1161 views | Bison |
As Baldric would say .... This is a cunning plan by the bumbling Tories.
Cummings has been slated by all and sundry as a lying conniving untrustworthy snakelike piece of merde. Now for anyone who slated him to say that he is now a trustworthy source to beat the government with will lose any credibility as all you have to do is go back and see what the said supporter of the current incarnation of Cummings said back in Brexit , or Barnard Castle episodes.
So the government have conveniently aired their dirty washing in full public view with the knowledge that any comebacks from even credible sources will just be compared to Cummings and instantly become a debatable truth as everyone knows that anything coming out of Cummings mouth is total sh!te.
A masterstroke me thinks. |  |
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| cummings on 13:06 - May 27 with 1149 views | Bazza |
| cummings on 10:31 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
The first and second lockdowns are very different.
With the first, yes, there was a lot of confusion and Cummings admitted that it took him a while to realise the seriousness and that the govt approach was heading in the wrong direction.
The second is much clearer. Johnson was advised in September that we needed a second lockdown and HE decided not to do it. That can only be on him.
It was a typical Johnson gamble on the hope that everything would turn out OK (this is what chancers do) and it was disastrous. It meant that we again slow to tackle the rising number such that when the Kent variation arose, the numbers were too high to do anything about it.
It seems like he did the same thing again in terms of adding India to the red list.
We really didn't need someone so reckless as our Prime Minister in charge of these decisions.
And it's all very well that he made the decisions in good faith in difficult circumstances. When you've got a well meaning person in a difficult job who keeps screwing things up, they still need sacking. |
Very impressive comments by A1079 and Berber. Balanced and detailed.
Boris and his team have made mistakes dealing with a new unpredicted terrible disease but others also made mistakes, and the opposition showed weakness being wise only after events. No-one wants people to die.
Hopefully we're past the worst and I just wish the hyenas would stop screaming for a Review now before we are not yet out of this. | | | |
| cummings on 13:49 - May 27 with 1122 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 13:06 - May 27 by Bazza |
Very impressive comments by A1079 and Berber. Balanced and detailed.
Boris and his team have made mistakes dealing with a new unpredicted terrible disease but others also made mistakes, and the opposition showed weakness being wise only after events. No-one wants people to die.
Hopefully we're past the worst and I just wish the hyenas would stop screaming for a Review now before we are not yet out of this. |
Could you be any more complacent?
Boris is off the hook because he was dealing with the unprecedented.
But we definitely don't want a review now, as that might get in the way of him making the same mistakes a few more times.
I presume that the 'hyenas' you are talking about are the families of the dead who are calling for a review now? | |
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| cummings on 14:39 - May 27 with 1104 views | grumpy |
| cummings on 13:06 - May 27 by Bazza |
Very impressive comments by A1079 and Berber. Balanced and detailed.
Boris and his team have made mistakes dealing with a new unpredicted terrible disease but others also made mistakes, and the opposition showed weakness being wise only after events. No-one wants people to die.
Hopefully we're past the worst and I just wish the hyenas would stop screaming for a Review now before we are not yet out of this. |
Is that the review their hoping to do in Spring next year?
How crazy is that, we want answers now. |  | | |
| cummings on 14:52 - May 27 with 1086 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 14:39 - May 27 by grumpy |
Is that the review their hoping to do in Spring next year?
How crazy is that, we want answers now. |
We need to make sure that the pandemic is finished before we start learning any lessons from it. Otherwise there is a danger that those lessons might get in the way of us just making it up as we go along.
Important too that the review starts late enough to ensure that its report won't come out until after the next election. Otherwise there is a danger that it might prejudice people's views of Boris. | |
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| cummings on 14:57 - May 27 with 1083 views | Bazza |
| cummings on 14:39 - May 27 by grumpy |
Is that the review their hoping to do in Spring next year?
How crazy is that, we want answers now. |
You and Dorset are sadly just to trying to make political points. A review now is premature with people still dying. In any case most reviews take years, are very costly and produce little. | | | |
| cummings on 15:16 - May 27 with 1070 views | grumpy |
| cummings on 14:57 - May 27 by Bazza |
You and Dorset are sadly just to trying to make political points. A review now is premature with people still dying. In any case most reviews take years, are very costly and produce little. |
Its not political point scoring to want to know why and how mistakes were made.
A independent review is required now not in the spring on 2022. | | | |
| cummings on 15:51 - May 27 with 1060 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 14:57 - May 27 by Bazza |
You and Dorset are sadly just to trying to make political points. A review now is premature with people still dying. In any case most reviews take years, are very costly and produce little. |
It falls into the category of 'the bleedin' obvious' that we should want to learn lessons while we have a chance to put them to some use.
And it's pretty rich for you to talk about 'political points' when your worship of Boris is causing you to defend the indefensible and to label the families of victims 'hyenas' for wanting to understand now why they died. | |
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| cummings on 16:01 - May 27 with 1049 views | Chesham_Saint |
| cummings on 17:45 - May 26 by grumpy |
We have lost more lives than any other country in Europe and are 5th in the world for deaths due to covid behind countries USA,BRAZIL,INDIA and MEXICO.
Questions must be answered as to why? |
To be meaningful how do our losses compare to other countries per capita? |  |
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| cummings on 16:21 - May 27 with 1042 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 16:01 - May 27 by Chesham_Saint |
To be meaningful how do our losses compare to other countries per capita? |
17th on worldwide list of deaths per 1M pop
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
1,873 per 1 million of population.
Hungary, which also has a nutter in charge, is top with 3,077. A few other former eastern european counrtries are higher than us.
Western Europe: Belgium, also an example of a really poor initial response, are on 2,139.
Italy, who were hit first, 2,080.
We're even worse that the US, despite Trump's best efforts. They are 1,822.
Others of note:
France: 1,667
Germany 1,054 (that's one zero five four)
And then you've got places like:
Japan 100
South Korea 38
Australia 35
Singapore 5
New Zealand 5
Taiwan 2
As Cummings explained yesterday, we should have been looking east from a very early stage. But we don't generally take lessons from the likes of them.
The Boris fans will point to reasons why 17th is actually very good. There are 222 countries on the list, so we're in the worst 10%. I'd say it was a difficult 'spin' to describe this as anything other than shit. | |
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| cummings on 16:40 - May 27 with 1033 views | 1885_SFC |
Dominic, have some dignity mate.
We've all been dumped. |  |
| GET THE F*CK OUT OF THIS FOOTBALL CLUB SPORT REPUBLIC |
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| cummings on 17:08 - May 27 with 1004 views | Chesham_Saint |
| cummings on 16:21 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
17th on worldwide list of deaths per 1M pop
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
1,873 per 1 million of population.
Hungary, which also has a nutter in charge, is top with 3,077. A few other former eastern european counrtries are higher than us.
Western Europe: Belgium, also an example of a really poor initial response, are on 2,139.
Italy, who were hit first, 2,080.
We're even worse that the US, despite Trump's best efforts. They are 1,822.
Others of note:
France: 1,667
Germany 1,054 (that's one zero five four)
And then you've got places like:
Japan 100
South Korea 38
Australia 35
Singapore 5
New Zealand 5
Taiwan 2
As Cummings explained yesterday, we should have been looking east from a very early stage. But we don't generally take lessons from the likes of them.
The Boris fans will point to reasons why 17th is actually very good. There are 222 countries on the list, so we're in the worst 10%. I'd say it was a difficult 'spin' to describe this as anything other than shit. |
222 countries on the list.... Are we to believe that all of those countries have sophisticated reporting and data collection processes? | |
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| cummings on 17:13 - May 27 with 997 views | Bazza |
| cummings on 15:51 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
It falls into the category of 'the bleedin' obvious' that we should want to learn lessons while we have a chance to put them to some use.
And it's pretty rich for you to talk about 'political points' when your worship of Boris is causing you to defend the indefensible and to label the families of victims 'hyenas' for wanting to understand now why they died. |
I’ve said before I’m not crazy about Boris but he does seem more effective than Corbyn or Starmer would likely be. Either way he was elected by a huge majority.
I certainly never said the families of victims were hyenas. Someone else (grumpy?) made that assumption. I was in fact referring to opposition politicians and media hacks looking to politicise issues. In any case families of victims know the causes of deaths and so do you!
Recent reports show virus variants are spreading. So we are still in trouble and surely not ready to waste key medics and scientists time on a Review so that opposition can harp on without offering any worthwhile ideas. | | | |
| cummings on 17:21 - May 27 with 985 views | kentsouthampton |
| cummings on 10:21 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
The issue about Johnson is not that he's a clown. Sometimes it's good to have a clown in charge. It gives the public a laugh and a bit of a break from your usual stuffy politician. Some people do seem to like the fact that he come across as a bumbling fool.
That would be fine if he'd surrounded himself with the most competent people. He hasn't. Hi ministers have been appointed on the basis of loyalty not competence.
That's why Hancock wasn't sacked after clearly balls-ing up a whole load of important decisions and that's why the dimwit Patel is still Home Secretary.
The thing that has gone right - the vaccinations - has gone right because it was taken away from Hancock and given to people who knew what they were doing.
We need more of this, but as Cummings explained, Johnson admitted that he preferred the chaos to getting things working properly, because while there's chaos then his position of power is stronger.
So many tinpot leaders go this way. They just want loyalty and power, so they surround themselves with sycophantic idiots. |
Spot on. |  | | |
| cummings on 17:56 - May 27 with 972 views | grumpy |
| cummings on 17:13 - May 27 by Bazza |
I’ve said before I’m not crazy about Boris but he does seem more effective than Corbyn or Starmer would likely be. Either way he was elected by a huge majority.
I certainly never said the families of victims were hyenas. Someone else (grumpy?) made that assumption. I was in fact referring to opposition politicians and media hacks looking to politicise issues. In any case families of victims know the causes of deaths and so do you!
Recent reports show virus variants are spreading. So we are still in trouble and surely not ready to waste key medics and scientists time on a Review so that opposition can harp on without offering any worthwhile ideas. |
'I certainly never said the families of victims were hyenas. Someone else (grumpy?) made that assumption'
Really! and where did I say anything like that? | | | |
| cummings on 19:48 - May 27 with 931 views | Sadoldgit |
| cummings on 15:16 - May 27 by grumpy |
Its not political point scoring to want to know why and how mistakes were made.
A independent review is required now not in the spring on 2022. |
There are also the possibility of more global pandemics in the near future so we need to learn from the mistakes made in this one so we don’t repeat them again. |  | | |
| cummings on 19:52 - May 27 with 930 views | Sadoldgit |
| cummings on 10:21 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
The issue about Johnson is not that he's a clown. Sometimes it's good to have a clown in charge. It gives the public a laugh and a bit of a break from your usual stuffy politician. Some people do seem to like the fact that he come across as a bumbling fool.
That would be fine if he'd surrounded himself with the most competent people. He hasn't. Hi ministers have been appointed on the basis of loyalty not competence.
That's why Hancock wasn't sacked after clearly balls-ing up a whole load of important decisions and that's why the dimwit Patel is still Home Secretary.
The thing that has gone right - the vaccinations - has gone right because it was taken away from Hancock and given to people who knew what they were doing.
We need more of this, but as Cummings explained, Johnson admitted that he preferred the chaos to getting things working properly, because while there's chaos then his position of power is stronger.
So many tinpot leaders go this way. They just want loyalty and power, so they surround themselves with sycophantic idiots. |
100% spot on | | | |
| cummings on 20:11 - May 27 with 920 views | Bazza |
| cummings on 17:56 - May 27 by grumpy |
'I certainly never said the families of victims were hyenas. Someone else (grumpy?) made that assumption'
Really! and where did I say anything like that? |
Sorry Grumpy it was actually DorsetIan who accused me of that. | | | |
| cummings on 20:40 - May 27 with 902 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 20:11 - May 27 by Bazza |
Sorry Grumpy it was actually DorsetIan who accused me of that. |
You called the people wanting an earlier review hyenas. It's principally the relatives of the dead that are leading the call for an earlier review.
Do you really need it explaining why learning lessons during the pandemic might actually help the way in which we are responding?
Horses and stable doors. | |
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| cummings on 20:46 - May 27 with 897 views | DorsetIan |
Hancock dropped another bollock while cack-handedly trying to refute what Cummings said. He said something along the lines of:
'I didn't say that people WERE being tested before they were sent to the nursing homes, I said that it was my firm intention that they WOULD BE tested...'
And what he didn't but should have added was...
'...and even thought it was my firm intention to test them and unfortunately they weren't tested, I sent them from hospitals to the nursing homes anyway.' | |
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| cummings on 20:55 - May 27 with 892 views | Saintsforeverj |
| cummings on 16:21 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
17th on worldwide list of deaths per 1M pop
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
1,873 per 1 million of population.
Hungary, which also has a nutter in charge, is top with 3,077. A few other former eastern european counrtries are higher than us.
Western Europe: Belgium, also an example of a really poor initial response, are on 2,139.
Italy, who were hit first, 2,080.
We're even worse that the US, despite Trump's best efforts. They are 1,822.
Others of note:
France: 1,667
Germany 1,054 (that's one zero five four)
And then you've got places like:
Japan 100
South Korea 38
Australia 35
Singapore 5
New Zealand 5
Taiwan 2
As Cummings explained yesterday, we should have been looking east from a very early stage. But we don't generally take lessons from the likes of them.
The Boris fans will point to reasons why 17th is actually very good. There are 222 countries on the list, so we're in the worst 10%. I'd say it was a difficult 'spin' to describe this as anything other than shit. |
Do you not think though Ian, that there were other considerations? No understanding or sympathy for that at all? Closing down the economy for longer than we did, could have resulted in more people losing their jobs and therefore their homes, lives and damage to their mental health too. Had there not been anything else to consider, it would have been a no brainer, close down the economy and save lives. But, is it not possible, that had we closed down the economy for longer, the death toll could have been less from the virus yes, but the consequences of people losing their jobs and lives could be just as bad? How do you know what the economic consequences would have been, and therefore on livesgoing forward?
How did any government know quite how dangerous this disease was going to be? It was a difficult situation, many factors come into play. The economy is not just that, the economy has an indirect affect on jobs, mental health, suicides and other things. Is it not understandable to be thinking about those things too, before shutting down the economy, for longer than we have to?
Japan had a low death rate, but they have always worn masks. Is is not possible that this helped? So nothing to do with the government. They have a very low obesity level. Not possible that this helped? Some of the countries wit low death rates, also have a very small population. Not at all possible that this is relevant? To just blame one man when there is many factors to consider, is just pure political bias and point scoring. Yes, Boris could have locked down earlier and for longer, but we know he didn't in order to protect the economy (and like I said, the economy affects lives too). [Post edited 27 May 2021 21:04]
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| cummings on 21:15 - May 27 with 881 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 20:55 - May 27 by Saintsforeverj |
Do you not think though Ian, that there were other considerations? No understanding or sympathy for that at all? Closing down the economy for longer than we did, could have resulted in more people losing their jobs and therefore their homes, lives and damage to their mental health too. Had there not been anything else to consider, it would have been a no brainer, close down the economy and save lives. But, is it not possible, that had we closed down the economy for longer, the death toll could have been less from the virus yes, but the consequences of people losing their jobs and lives could be just as bad? How do you know what the economic consequences would have been, and therefore on livesgoing forward?
How did any government know quite how dangerous this disease was going to be? It was a difficult situation, many factors come into play. The economy is not just that, the economy has an indirect affect on jobs, mental health, suicides and other things. Is it not understandable to be thinking about those things too, before shutting down the economy, for longer than we have to?
Japan had a low death rate, but they have always worn masks. Is is not possible that this helped? So nothing to do with the government. They have a very low obesity level. Not possible that this helped? Some of the countries wit low death rates, also have a very small population. Not at all possible that this is relevant? To just blame one man when there is many factors to consider, is just pure political bias and point scoring. Yes, Boris could have locked down earlier and for longer, but we know he didn't in order to protect the economy (and like I said, the economy affects lives too). [Post edited 27 May 2021 21:04]
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The same people who were making these excuses this time last year are making the same ones again now.
Cummings explained all this yesterday. There's comes a point when lockdowns become inevitable because if you just let the thing rip, the NHS collapses and people just stay at home anyway out of fear.
Therefore when that point is reached you need to act quickly, because the virus is not waiting for you and is simply multiplying, and delaying just makes it worse. Boris is a ditherer and he dithered.
Boris delayed in the Spring. Let's give him that one. He didn't know enough then.
But in the Autumn he delayed again and that was a disaster, and he should have known better from the Spring.
He then did it again by acting too slowly on the Indian variant and, guess what, the Indian variant is now taking hold again.
What you and the excuse makers like you won't acknowledge is that even where the decisions are very difficult, and where there is little experience to go on, and where there are no good outcomes, it is still possible to make seriously bad decisions.
Cummings suggested that Boris has made seriously bad decisions. He should know, and what he said echoes with what people thought was happening at the time.
It is also 100% persistent with Boris being a complete chancer. | |
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| cummings on 21:20 - May 27 with 875 views | Saintsforeverj |
| cummings on 21:15 - May 27 by DorsetIan |
The same people who were making these excuses this time last year are making the same ones again now.
Cummings explained all this yesterday. There's comes a point when lockdowns become inevitable because if you just let the thing rip, the NHS collapses and people just stay at home anyway out of fear.
Therefore when that point is reached you need to act quickly, because the virus is not waiting for you and is simply multiplying, and delaying just makes it worse. Boris is a ditherer and he dithered.
Boris delayed in the Spring. Let's give him that one. He didn't know enough then.
But in the Autumn he delayed again and that was a disaster, and he should have known better from the Spring.
He then did it again by acting too slowly on the Indian variant and, guess what, the Indian variant is now taking hold again.
What you and the excuse makers like you won't acknowledge is that even where the decisions are very difficult, and where there is little experience to go on, and where there are no good outcomes, it is still possible to make seriously bad decisions.
Cummings suggested that Boris has made seriously bad decisions. He should know, and what he said echoes with what people thought was happening at the time.
It is also 100% persistent with Boris being a complete chancer. |
And Cummings decided to drive the length of the country and made up a whole load of lies about why. It was to test his eye sight. So you believe everything a bitter, sacked man says? You didn't in previous threads about a Cummings a few months ago. He should know you say. Do you remember what you said about Cummings a few months ago being a liar and immoral? Now you think he is great because he is slamming the government because you and others like to stick the knife in whenever you can, because you think it will brain wash people into not voting Tory. It won't work. People know what's what. [Post edited 27 May 2021 21:42]
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| cummings on 21:20 - May 27 with 875 views | kingolaf |
Cummins is a turd.
Don’t believe him. | | | |
| cummings on 22:39 - May 27 with 845 views | DorsetIan |
| cummings on 21:20 - May 27 by Saintsforeverj |
And Cummings decided to drive the length of the country and made up a whole load of lies about why. It was to test his eye sight. So you believe everything a bitter, sacked man says? You didn't in previous threads about a Cummings a few months ago. He should know you say. Do you remember what you said about Cummings a few months ago being a liar and immoral? Now you think he is great because he is slamming the government because you and others like to stick the knife in whenever you can, because you think it will brain wash people into not voting Tory. It won't work. People know what's what. [Post edited 27 May 2021 21:42]
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My main gripe about Cummings' trip to Durham was that Johnson should have sacked him because not doing so seriously weakened the message about people having to obey the rules. He admitted that this was the case yesterday and it was obvious at the time (apart from to those people who only ever blame the public for Covid and who believe that government messaging is not important). He also provided further information on the trip and, when directly challenged on the point, stood by the reason for his Barnard Castle trip, while acknowledging that it sounded odd.
In terms of his general dishonesty. I am sure you will remind me if I have said differently in the past, but he is clearly an interesting character. He seems to be genuinely driven by a desire to make things better and improve the way things operate. A real geek when it comes to thinking about how things work and always seeking to get the best experts involved, to properly understand a problem and find solutions.
However, he is also 100% Machiavellian, so he is not averse to a strategic lie. The £350m on the side of the bus was his and was a lie. As was the lie he pushed about Turkey joining the EU and the mass immigration that would follow.
But you have to take people as you find them and I watched him and I didn't get any sense of shiftiness or of him making everything up. There seemed to be genuine contrition about how he himself had failed and genuine anger about what a clusterf*ck the govt's handling had been.
The committee yesterday was very concerned about the seriousness of the allegations he made about Hancock, and asked if he would provide them with documents to back up what he was saying. He said that he would provide the committee with that, so we will yet see what he comes up with. He also said that Cabinet Secretary had told Boris that Hancock should be sacked. Let's see if he corroborates that when he gives evidence.
Cummings was there 'in the room'. He knows everything and he no longer has any loyalty at play which might prevent him from saying what he knows.
And very little of what he said came as a surprise. It entirely confirmed what most people had already concluded about Johnson, Hancock and the rest. Fundamentally dishonest and largely incompetent. | |
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