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The clown 19:35 - Oct 5 with 16245 viewssaint22

Just watched BoJo interviewed on C4 news
Good god could anyone be anymore unconvincing!?
Contradicting himself, stumbling and humbling answers and banging on about people want a government that performs for them! As if they haven’t been in power for 11 years
How the hell do people fall for his ineptitude
Oh and there is no labour shortage at all that’s just due to lack of investment
Ffs
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The clown on 09:07 - Nov 23 with 1070 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 22:36 - Nov 22 by DorsetIan

Think Trump and Boris are just testing the limits of modern democracy.

How bit an absolute cnt can you be and still get elected (Trump)?

How big a complete buffoon can you be and still get elected (Boris)?


It’s interesting that the UK and the US both chose similar premiers around the same time. Both narcissists. Both only interested in themselves. Both prepared to do what it takes to get what they want with no regard to the greater good. We heard that people were fed up with career politicians and went for Mavericks with charisma. Well this is where it gets you. Useless incompetents who are not in the least interested in anything or anybody other than themselves. They throw around populist phrases like Make America Great Again or Take Back Control knowing that is what voters want to hear but with nothing to back up their rhetoric. Johnson has just seen yet another bill go through which will screw people on lower incomes. So much for levelling up. I doubt if anyone can count the number of upturns his government have been forced to make already. Hopefully this will force yet another u turn. The Tory Party have a track record in keeping people in the top job as long as it suits their purpose and dumping them as soon as they don’t. Johnson has, finally, become the liability he always promised to be given his history. How long before he is kicked out by his own party?
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The clown on 09:12 - Nov 26 with 981 viewsdirk_doone

The answer is obviously the second one:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59419382

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The clown on 09:18 - Nov 26 with 975 viewsSadoldgit

The master diplomat does it again! Just when we desperately need to sort something out re the channel crossings and work together with the French to do so, he manages to piss them off so much that they have cancelled a meeting that could have provided some solutions to the problem. Now I know that it doesn’t take much to piss off the French, but it takes something special to throw a spanner in the works when 27 people have just died and people are crying out for action. Throw Priti Patel into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.
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The clown on 10:04 - Nov 26 with 965 viewssaint22

The clown on 09:18 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

The master diplomat does it again! Just when we desperately need to sort something out re the channel crossings and work together with the French to do so, he manages to piss them off so much that they have cancelled a meeting that could have provided some solutions to the problem. Now I know that it doesn’t take much to piss off the French, but it takes something special to throw a spanner in the works when 27 people have just died and people are crying out for action. Throw Priti Patel into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.


It really is astonishing that so many in this country just sit back and think 'oh they really are doing their best for this country"
its embarrassing beyond belief
Any other job and the whole lot would have been fired months ago but here they are 11 years later and all is so good no?
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The clown on 10:33 - Nov 26 with 956 viewsBazza

My, My - never so much rubbish has been written by so few.
Just think of the alternative Grandpa
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The clown on 10:59 - Nov 26 with 929 viewspjt50

The clown on 09:18 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

The master diplomat does it again! Just when we desperately need to sort something out re the channel crossings and work together with the French to do so, he manages to piss them off so much that they have cancelled a meeting that could have provided some solutions to the problem. Now I know that it doesn’t take much to piss off the French, but it takes something special to throw a spanner in the works when 27 people have just died and people are crying out for action. Throw Priti Patel into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.


I'm no apologist for the French but this looks like a deliberate ploy to provoke France into just this sort of reaction. Given Patel's inability to keep her promise to fix the problem, plan B seems to be to shift the blame elsewhere. Why else put the letter in the public domain? Pathetic politicising of a human tragedy.

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The clown on 11:24 - Nov 26 with 916 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 10:59 - Nov 26 by pjt50

I'm no apologist for the French but this looks like a deliberate ploy to provoke France into just this sort of reaction. Given Patel's inability to keep her promise to fix the problem, plan B seems to be to shift the blame elsewhere. Why else put the letter in the public domain? Pathetic politicising of a human tragedy.


Apparently the reason Macron is so angry is because he’d had a conversation with Johnson on Wednesday evening and the subsequent letter is at complete odds with what they discussed. Who’d have thought Johnson would say one thing and do another?
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The clown on 12:16 - Nov 26 with 880 viewsPaleRider

The clown on 11:24 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

Apparently the reason Macron is so angry is because he’d had a conversation with Johnson on Wednesday evening and the subsequent letter is at complete odds with what they discussed. Who’d have thought Johnson would say one thing and do another?


....and you believe Macron? I never liked Blair but Macron is like an incompetent version.

I'm no supporter of Johnson but this tragedy is of the French authorities' making:

1) Their response to smugglers wandering freely round the camps is laughable. I suspect that some French police may be in the pay of the smuggler gangs;
2) The way they treat migrants is a disgrace. They claim to be paragons of culture and civilisation but you only have to look at they way migrants, and in fact any non-white French people are treated;
3) They say it is not their responsibility to police UK borders. True - but it is their responsibility to police their own borders. They can quote all the statistics they want but they are simply not doing a good enough job. Their sovereignty ends at International waters - not the beaches;
4) The reaction to Johnson's comment (which is not unreasonable) has been pathetic and childish. Do you really think Macron wants to solve this issue?

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the one-sided blinkered view some posters put on here - at least think before you post!
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The clown on 12:29 - Nov 26 with 869 viewsSaintsforeverj

The clown on 12:16 - Nov 26 by PaleRider

....and you believe Macron? I never liked Blair but Macron is like an incompetent version.

I'm no supporter of Johnson but this tragedy is of the French authorities' making:

1) Their response to smugglers wandering freely round the camps is laughable. I suspect that some French police may be in the pay of the smuggler gangs;
2) The way they treat migrants is a disgrace. They claim to be paragons of culture and civilisation but you only have to look at they way migrants, and in fact any non-white French people are treated;
3) They say it is not their responsibility to police UK borders. True - but it is their responsibility to police their own borders. They can quote all the statistics they want but they are simply not doing a good enough job. Their sovereignty ends at International waters - not the beaches;
4) The reaction to Johnson's comment (which is not unreasonable) has been pathetic and childish. Do you really think Macron wants to solve this issue?

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the one-sided blinkered view some posters put on here - at least think before you post!


An excellent post. Certain posters will place the blame on Boris straight away regardless. Sometimes justified, but usually not. In France, people are freezing in tents, next to a railway in a camp. Do these same posters have any complaints about that? Probably not because they can't blame Boris for that. The French are allowing children to get in a boat to their likely death. Do these same posters not agree, that letters aside, the French should just stop these people making this deadly journey? No, because they can't bring themselves to put any blame on Macron as they just want to blame Boris.

Whether or not Macron is annoyed about a letter, is not a reason to allow children to travel to their death. It's as simple as that. The problem is on French land, so they should solve it and allow our help. The suggestions in the letter about UK police helping on French land is not a bad idea, nor is boats and helicopters stopping the fatal journeys. And Macron reacts like a child. Meanwhile, real children are being killed in the waters.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 12:30]

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The clown on 12:33 - Nov 26 with 857 viewssaint68

The clown on 12:16 - Nov 26 by PaleRider

....and you believe Macron? I never liked Blair but Macron is like an incompetent version.

I'm no supporter of Johnson but this tragedy is of the French authorities' making:

1) Their response to smugglers wandering freely round the camps is laughable. I suspect that some French police may be in the pay of the smuggler gangs;
2) The way they treat migrants is a disgrace. They claim to be paragons of culture and civilisation but you only have to look at they way migrants, and in fact any non-white French people are treated;
3) They say it is not their responsibility to police UK borders. True - but it is their responsibility to police their own borders. They can quote all the statistics they want but they are simply not doing a good enough job. Their sovereignty ends at International waters - not the beaches;
4) The reaction to Johnson's comment (which is not unreasonable) has been pathetic and childish. Do you really think Macron wants to solve this issue?

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the one-sided blinkered view some posters put on here - at least think before you post!


Agree entirely with this mate

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The clown on 12:37 - Nov 26 with 855 viewssaint68

The clown on 12:29 - Nov 26 by Saintsforeverj

An excellent post. Certain posters will place the blame on Boris straight away regardless. Sometimes justified, but usually not. In France, people are freezing in tents, next to a railway in a camp. Do these same posters have any complaints about that? Probably not because they can't blame Boris for that. The French are allowing children to get in a boat to their likely death. Do these same posters not agree, that letters aside, the French should just stop these people making this deadly journey? No, because they can't bring themselves to put any blame on Macron as they just want to blame Boris.

Whether or not Macron is annoyed about a letter, is not a reason to allow children to travel to their death. It's as simple as that. The problem is on French land, so they should solve it and allow our help. The suggestions in the letter about UK police helping on French land is not a bad idea, nor is boats and helicopters stopping the fatal journeys. And Macron reacts like a child. Meanwhile, real children are being killed in the waters.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 12:30]


The French have horrendous issues with migrants and any that move on to the UK is marvellous in their eyes.

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The clown on 12:45 - Nov 26 with 862 viewspjt50

The clown on 12:16 - Nov 26 by PaleRider

....and you believe Macron? I never liked Blair but Macron is like an incompetent version.

I'm no supporter of Johnson but this tragedy is of the French authorities' making:

1) Their response to smugglers wandering freely round the camps is laughable. I suspect that some French police may be in the pay of the smuggler gangs;
2) The way they treat migrants is a disgrace. They claim to be paragons of culture and civilisation but you only have to look at they way migrants, and in fact any non-white French people are treated;
3) They say it is not their responsibility to police UK borders. True - but it is their responsibility to police their own borders. They can quote all the statistics they want but they are simply not doing a good enough job. Their sovereignty ends at International waters - not the beaches;
4) The reaction to Johnson's comment (which is not unreasonable) has been pathetic and childish. Do you really think Macron wants to solve this issue?

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the one-sided blinkered view some posters put on here - at least think before you post!


Don't disagree with points 1) — 3) but in this thread I was commenting on “The clown”. Why was the letter posted on Twitter just in time for the headline writers to get hold of it? How exactly was it supposed to move the discussions forward? Neither side comes out of this well but it's only going to be solved with international cooperation — whatever we think of the French.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 13:05]

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The clown on 14:12 - Nov 26 with 834 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 12:29 - Nov 26 by Saintsforeverj

An excellent post. Certain posters will place the blame on Boris straight away regardless. Sometimes justified, but usually not. In France, people are freezing in tents, next to a railway in a camp. Do these same posters have any complaints about that? Probably not because they can't blame Boris for that. The French are allowing children to get in a boat to their likely death. Do these same posters not agree, that letters aside, the French should just stop these people making this deadly journey? No, because they can't bring themselves to put any blame on Macron as they just want to blame Boris.

Whether or not Macron is annoyed about a letter, is not a reason to allow children to travel to their death. It's as simple as that. The problem is on French land, so they should solve it and allow our help. The suggestions in the letter about UK police helping on French land is not a bad idea, nor is boats and helicopters stopping the fatal journeys. And Macron reacts like a child. Meanwhile, real children are being killed in the waters.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 12:30]


It is not Macron’s fault that people are getting into rubber dinghies is it. They make a choice and it seems to be based on the fact that they cannot claim asylum in this country unless they are in this country. Perhaps if we changed the system we wouldn’t have this problem?
And Boris gets the blame because he has deliberately leaked a letter to Twitter for political gain.
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The clown on 14:35 - Nov 26 with 823 viewsSouthamptonfan

The clown on 14:12 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

It is not Macron’s fault that people are getting into rubber dinghies is it. They make a choice and it seems to be based on the fact that they cannot claim asylum in this country unless they are in this country. Perhaps if we changed the system we wouldn’t have this problem?
And Boris gets the blame because he has deliberately leaked a letter to Twitter for political gain.


From what I can see nipper, the French police are allowing children and their family friends to get in a boat to their death. Macron should be taking the blame for this, surely? You think people should be free to "choose" to get in a boat that results in their death whilst French police let them do it? Really!!!!!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/migrants-channel-deaths-f

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/migrants-channel-deaths-f
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 14:43]

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The clown on 14:41 - Nov 26 with 815 viewsSaintsforeverj

The clown on 14:35 - Nov 26 by Southamptonfan

From what I can see nipper, the French police are allowing children and their family friends to get in a boat to their death. Macron should be taking the blame for this, surely? You think people should be free to "choose" to get in a boat that results in their death whilst French police let them do it? Really!!!!!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/migrants-channel-deaths-f

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/migrants-channel-deaths-f
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 14:43]


Ha, I wouldn't bother. Boris's letter caused the French police to watch children sail to their death, obviously!

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The clown on 14:44 - Nov 26 with 810 viewsSouthamptonfan

The clown on 14:41 - Nov 26 by Saintsforeverj

Ha, I wouldn't bother. Boris's letter caused the French police to watch children sail to their death, obviously!


No big fan of Boris, but it's not his fault that the French watch on as immigrants get on a death boat!!!!!! I mean seriously!!???

Macron is a complete tw@t. It's on his soil, people are being killed through a dangerous activity. His police and authorities let them cross. Simples!!!!!!
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 14:52]

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The clown on 15:03 - Nov 26 with 788 viewspjt50

The clown on 14:44 - Nov 26 by Southamptonfan

No big fan of Boris, but it's not his fault that the French watch on as immigrants get on a death boat!!!!!! I mean seriously!!???

Macron is a complete tw@t. It's on his soil, people are being killed through a dangerous activity. His police and authorities let them cross. Simples!!!!!!
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 14:52]


Of course not, but his cheap politics & lack of statesmanship are delaying the resolution of the problem & possibly allowing even more tragedies.

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The clown on 15:28 - Nov 26 with 766 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 14:44 - Nov 26 by Southamptonfan

No big fan of Boris, but it's not his fault that the French watch on as immigrants get on a death boat!!!!!! I mean seriously!!???

Macron is a complete tw@t. It's on his soil, people are being killed through a dangerous activity. His police and authorities let them cross. Simples!!!!!!
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 14:52]


Really? Have you seen how much coastline they have to patrol? Since the French have tightened up around Calais the launching sites have spread much further along the coastline. We have a similar problem this side. Our border patrols don’t pick up many because they don’t have enough resources to cover all of the landing points.
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The clown on 15:33 - Nov 26 with 762 viewsSouthamptonfan

The clown on 15:28 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

Really? Have you seen how much coastline they have to patrol? Since the French have tightened up around Calais the launching sites have spread much further along the coastline. We have a similar problem this side. Our border patrols don’t pick up many because they don’t have enough resources to cover all of the landing points.


That maybe the case nipper but I posted a clip of French police watching people get in a death boat and they do nothing, absolutely nothing. Macron has something to do with this policy of let them leave. Then he blames the British, yet his authoritiee stand and watch as people travel to their death. Letters, agreements don't mean f@ck all when they could have just stopped them there and then. When someone is unfortunately about to jump off the Itchen Bridg, you don't look at what has been agreed and written down in a letter, you just try to stop them doing it don't you?????

I'm no big admirer of Boris a d his government, but f@ck me the French putting these people in a tent in a muddy field deserves some criticism don't ya think??
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 15:46]

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The clown on 15:48 - Nov 26 with 744 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 15:33 - Nov 26 by Southamptonfan

That maybe the case nipper but I posted a clip of French police watching people get in a death boat and they do nothing, absolutely nothing. Macron has something to do with this policy of let them leave. Then he blames the British, yet his authoritiee stand and watch as people travel to their death. Letters, agreements don't mean f@ck all when they could have just stopped them there and then. When someone is unfortunately about to jump off the Itchen Bridg, you don't look at what has been agreed and written down in a letter, you just try to stop them doing it don't you?????

I'm no big admirer of Boris a d his government, but f@ck me the French putting these people in a tent in a muddy field deserves some criticism don't ya think??
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 15:46]


I think that both sides deserve criticism. The point we need to remember though is that these people want to be in the UK, not in France. I’m not quite sure what law they are breaking by getting into a boat on a French beach. I don’t think that they break any law when they land here either if they are seeking asylum. As far as I know it is not illegal to seek asylum and as we know, you can only seek asylum in the UK if you are in the UK.
These people do not start from France. They start from Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe. Why aren’t they being stopped before they get any where France?
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The clown on 15:57 - Nov 26 with 736 viewsSouthamptonfan

The clown on 15:48 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

I think that both sides deserve criticism. The point we need to remember though is that these people want to be in the UK, not in France. I’m not quite sure what law they are breaking by getting into a boat on a French beach. I don’t think that they break any law when they land here either if they are seeking asylum. As far as I know it is not illegal to seek asylum and as we know, you can only seek asylum in the UK if you are in the UK.
These people do not start from France. They start from Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe. Why aren’t they being stopped before they get any where France?


Free movement across Europe. It's easy to travel from one EU country to another, if you avoid the border check areas. I travelled from France to Spain in a car without any checks at all, as we enjoyed the views and quiet routes. It's free movement isn't it, so there is very little border control, other than at the official check points. And by what you are saying nipper, about there being no law, there is also no law to stop someone standing on top of the Itchen Bridge to enjoy the view. In what universe do you just say, carry on mate there is no law against it??? You stop them don't you and save their life. I'm sorry, but it's on French soil, they could do more to just simply stop them making the journey. Many get killed and for me that is reason enough to stop them, just like a police officer would stop a person jumping off a bridge, if they could. We have already offered to help with putting British police on their beaches to help them out, and they said no. So I can't see any blame than at the French door. They put freezing kids in muddy over cramped tents, that is a disgrace in itself and then they watch as people get in the sea to die. It's not politics, left or right. It's just digraceful.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 15:59]

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The clown on 16:14 - Nov 26 with 716 viewsBison

Its going to be choppy in the channel tonight , I wonder if the gendarmerie will even bother to get out of their warm cars. Perhaps a letter of support from SoG's explaining how its all Boris's fault may warm them through their long night shift.

Vive La France !

Laissez mourir les enfants !

Trust no one in a circus.
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The clown on 16:32 - Nov 26 with 709 viewsPaleRider

The clown on 15:28 - Nov 26 by Sadoldgit

Really? Have you seen how much coastline they have to patrol? Since the French have tightened up around Calais the launching sites have spread much further along the coastline. We have a similar problem this side. Our border patrols don’t pick up many because they don’t have enough resources to cover all of the landing points.


There is a lot of coast but you can use technology to spot people getting into these dangerous boats - drones with infra-red and night vision. Ideally you'd get them on the beaches but if they get onto the sea then use the navy/coast-guards/lifeboats to intercept them before they reach the dangerous shipping lanes and international waters. Also, it is more dangerous getting in a boat about to cross the channel rather than getting off the afore-mentioned boat on a British beach. It is also clear that the French trying to measure this in terms of boats stopped is not the right measurement - the better measure is how many boats get through. The whole point is to stop people setting off on these dangerous journeys in the first place and it is clear that the French have long had no interest in stopping them.

In terms of law, if you put your child on one of these boats it is reckless endangerment. I would go so far as to say that if you put your children deliberately in harm's way then there is no way you deserve asylum or a visa - maybe that would stop people from attempting these journeys.

FYI - my grand-mother was a refugee in WW1, WW2 and the Balkan war so I'm not impervious peoples' genuine need to migrate. However, paying thousands to people smugglers to "escape" from the safety of the EU to the safety of the UK is morally reprehensible
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The clown on 17:28 - Nov 26 with 692 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 16:14 - Nov 26 by Bison

Its going to be choppy in the channel tonight , I wonder if the gendarmerie will even bother to get out of their warm cars. Perhaps a letter of support from SoG's explaining how its all Boris's fault may warm them through their long night shift.

Vive La France !

Laissez mourir les enfants !


I didn’t say it was Johnson’s fault. I said that it was his fault that the meeting that was supposed to be dealing with this mess wasn’t now going to include us.
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The clown on 17:34 - Nov 26 with 689 viewsSadoldgit

The clown on 16:32 - Nov 26 by PaleRider

There is a lot of coast but you can use technology to spot people getting into these dangerous boats - drones with infra-red and night vision. Ideally you'd get them on the beaches but if they get onto the sea then use the navy/coast-guards/lifeboats to intercept them before they reach the dangerous shipping lanes and international waters. Also, it is more dangerous getting in a boat about to cross the channel rather than getting off the afore-mentioned boat on a British beach. It is also clear that the French trying to measure this in terms of boats stopped is not the right measurement - the better measure is how many boats get through. The whole point is to stop people setting off on these dangerous journeys in the first place and it is clear that the French have long had no interest in stopping them.

In terms of law, if you put your child on one of these boats it is reckless endangerment. I would go so far as to say that if you put your children deliberately in harm's way then there is no way you deserve asylum or a visa - maybe that would stop people from attempting these journeys.

FYI - my grand-mother was a refugee in WW1, WW2 and the Balkan war so I'm not impervious peoples' genuine need to migrate. However, paying thousands to people smugglers to "escape" from the safety of the EU to the safety of the UK is morally reprehensible


I don’t disagree that it is dangerous and reckless to put a child on a boat like that. It is dangerous and reckless for anybody. It just goes to show how desperate these people must be. My point stands. It is time we sorted out the system of applying for asylum here. The way it works at the moment only encourages people to cross the channel and risk their lives in the process.
It is also not illegal to enter this (or any country) to seek asylum.
[Post edited 26 Nov 2021 17:46]
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